Can a Knight Who Was Stripped of His Title Regain it somehow, or at least become a soldier/man-at-arms etc.,

Decidueye

Science fiction fantasy
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Hi, this is my first post on this forum!

The question is the same as the header, although I didn't mention that the character who lost their knighthood also used to function as an "assassin" while a knight, and I use the quotation marks because the word assassin more literally refers to the Hashashin of Syria and Persia in the eleventh century if I have my facts correct, so that probably isn't the correct term, but if it is good enough for Robin Hobb's story it is good enough for mine (I hope).
Anyways backer to the Post's title I tried to look it up but couldn't really find information on it online, I probably should buy books about knighthood, chivalry, nobility and overall medieval life but for now I only have free documentaries to afford.

P.S.
My book isn't based off medieval times in the literal sense, rather it is the timeline between the medieval and early renaissance period which is usually referred to when saying "medieval", but honestly, my book is just High Fantasy.
 
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It might depend on why the knight is stripped of his title. During the reign of Elizabeth I, the Earl of Essex handed out knighthoods to his followers, and at least some of them had their titles subsequently removed, but this wasn't through any fault of theirs as such. I don't know anything further about them, though, and whether any of them subsequently got any kind of title or honour.

If the title has been stripped from your character because he was an assassin and this is deemed dishonourable, then it's perhaps less likely that the current monarch/whoever would knight him again unless he carries out some particular dramatic heroic action, but perhaps a successor monarch/etc might do or the ruler of another land. But certainly no one's going to prevent him being a soldier of some kind -- men with his skills are likely to be wanted by someone somewhere.

There is an article here about the degradation from knighthood but it's beyond a paywall. https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00665983.1913.10853228 It might be worth seeing if it's available through JSTOR which you'd need to register with but it's free for up to 100 articles a month.

But anyway, if you're writing fantasy, you can do whatever you want, just make sure it's logically consistent within the story.
 
Im no expert but I would think that Knight who lose his Knighthood in disgrace would have few options in terms future career. He might be forced to either some sell sword mercenary or very likely, become outlaw robber.
 
It might depend on why the knight is stripped of his title. During the reign of Elizabeth I, the Earl of Essex handed out knighthoods to his followers, and at least some of them had their titles subsequently removed, but this wasn't through any fault of theirs as such. I don't know anything further about them, though, and whether any of them subsequently got any kind of title or honour.

If the title has been stripped from your character because he was an assassin and this is deemed dishonourable, then it's perhaps less likely that the current monarch/whoever would knight him again unless he carries out some particular dramatic heroic action, but perhaps a successor monarch/etc might do or the ruler of another land. But certainly no one's going to prevent him being a soldier of some kind -- men with his skills are likely to be wanted by someone somewhere.
Thanks for your reply, he wasn't stripped of his title for being an assassin, rather for his magical abilities and skill as a knight he sometimes functioned as an assassin.
 
Im no expert but I would think that Knight who lose his Knighthood in disgrace would have few options in terms future career. He might be forced to either some sell sword mercenary or very likely, become outlaw robber.
Yeah he does become an outlaw, but is given a chance to regain his title (it's a long story.) I wanted to know under what circumstance would a former knight be allowed to regain his title so long as whatever he did wasn't that bad i,e., killing a monarch; I should note he wasn 't stripped of his titles for anything he did as an outlaw, and this may seem obvious but his title being given back is in return for a very important job that only he could do.
 
It might depend on why the knight is stripped of his title. During the reign of Elizabeth I, the Earl of Essex handed out knighthoods to his followers, and at least some of them had their titles subsequently removed, but this wasn't through any fault of theirs as such. I don't know anything further about them, though, and whether any of them subsequently got any kind of title or honour.

If the title has been stripped from your character because he was an assassin and this is deemed dishonourable, then it's perhaps less likely that the current monarch/whoever would knight him again unless he carries out some particular dramatic heroic action, but perhaps a successor monarch/etc might do or the ruler of another land. But certainly no one's going to prevent him being a soldier of some kind -- men with his skills are likely to be wanted by someone somewhere.
.
I just realized how unclear my reply was. He was stripped of his title for a reason I haven't decided on yet, he was knighted BECAUSE of his magical abilities, and being an assassin had nothing to do with his title being stripped especially because he was often appointed as one.
 
Yeah he does become an outlaw, but is given a chance to regain his title (it's a long story.) I wanted to know under what circumstance would a former knight be allowed to regain his title so long as whatever he did wasn't that bad i,e., killing a monarch; I should note he wasn 't stripped of his titles for anything he did as an outlaw, and this may seem obvious but his title being given back is in return for a very important job that only he could do.

In era chivalry and Knighthood outside Kings and the nobility , the most powerful and influential institution would be Church. I don't know if this would have been an option , but it seems me to that said Knight might approach the Church( the local Bishop who would more then likely be of a noble House ) to interceded on his behalf.:unsure::(
 
Excellent Thread topic , Please stay and keep posting more of them :cool:
 
There are two issues here IMO:

1. Knighthood - there's no central authority for this, it's effectively just any lord who wants to reward one of his men with authority and title. So if any lord wants to give a person a knighthood, that's their business, regardless of their past. And in the European mediaeval period, many people had murky pasts.

2. Hashassassins - these were a radical Islamic group formed with the specific aim of killing crusaders. So anyone joining this group is effectively going to be a Muslim killing Christian lords. I don't see any Christian knight easily being accepted into any such group, but if it ever were possible, it would likely make that person infamous in the eyes of Christendom and could even get Papal attention and condemnation, in which case the chances of such a person being accepted and rewarded by Christian lords is pretty much zero IMO.
 
He was stripped of his title for a reason I haven't decided on yet,
Then I think this is your first priority because the reason will determine what others think of him.

It must have been something serious, because if it were done for a petty offence it's not going to be credible -- and will cause alarm among other knights who feel their own titles might be in jeopardy. On the other hand, the offence can't be so bad that it's warranted harsher physical punishment (though he might have been fined or had lands confiscated).

When the degradation happened will also cause problems. If it was very recently, the person who degraded him is going to look foolish if s/he's now having to crawl back and reconfer the honour. That kind of thing makes a ruler look weak, which then undermines his/her authority; it also causes resentment amongst other knights/courtiers if they don't like your character.

he was knighted BECAUSE of his magical abilities
That actually seems far less believable to me than having the knighthood re-conferred. Knighthoods are given for a lot of reasons, but that seems a dubious one, even if magical powers aren't widespread. Far better that he was originally knighted for something he did.

Yeah he does become an outlaw,
And for me this is wholly unbelievable. Outlaws are renegades, and punishment for them is harsh. Forget tales of Robin Hood. Frankly, if you're stepping so far outside genuine historical mores in this way then I can't see why you're worried about reality as to why and how a former knight would be knighted again.

his title being given back is in return for a very important job that only he could do.
That might allow the monarch/whoever to ignore his outlawry, but why re-confer the knighthood? What good does it do? If your character has demanded it as a price for his co-operation (though keeping his head attached to his body is all he might expect if he's been captured), then you need a good reason for it since it doesn't of itself provide him with money or lands, not does it automatically confer the respect of his peers or those under him.


As for the issue of his being an assassin, while Brian is right as to the historical nature of them, I don't think it's an issue -- you're just using a common accepted term for a hired killer, and I'm certain there were plenty of those around in medieval Europe in one guise or another.
 
There are a number of issues here.

There are different reasons for being a knight at different times and in different places.

The usual situation was for a person to made a knight due to services rendered to his monarch or their representative. He could be stripped of it if he did something to offend them (eg treason) or make his position untenable (eg doing something to offend the Church).

Thomas Cromwell for example, who had just about every title available at that time, was stripped of them all and executed as 'Thomas Cromwell, cloth carder'.

For a knight to be stripped of his title, and to them be given the chance to reclaim it would be very difficult. Usually the person disgraced wouldn't be in a position of trust to be able to do so, but it was possible. For example Thomas Cochrane lost knighthood for fraud. Consequently he went to South America and assisted in the Brazilian, Chilean and Peruvian revolutions, before returning to England as Rear Admiral and having the Order of the Bath reinstated by Queen Victoria.

But in earlier times knighthood was more about honour and chivalry as it was about a mere title. An honourable knight wouldn't have used magic, or become an assassin. And if they somehow 'fell' (eg Lancelot) they would have to go to great lengths in order to redeem their honour and their self esteem.

On the other hand, knights were often the 'right hand man' of their lord; whatever they were told to do they did, however dishonourable. If they didn't then they would be out of a job. For instance Sir James Tyrrell was supposedly ordered to murder the 'Princes in the Tower' by Richard III. Henry VII (who defeated Richard) did not demote or condemn Tyrrell; in fact he pardoned and reappointed him as governor in Calais.

Basically with knights, you have lots of different options, especially in a fictitious world with magic. Some knights were good, some were bad. A knight was usually appointed because of the usefulness he could provide to his master; he could be stripped of that title if his usefulness came to an end. If he was again in a position were he could prove useful, or he did something extraordinarily brave or heroic to atone, then he could be reinstated to his position.

As long as you make it understandable and logical, then you will be fine.
 
It must have been something serious, because if it were done for a petty offence it's not going to be credible -- and will cause alarm among other knights who feel their own titles might be in jeopardy. On the other hand, the offence can't be so bad that it's warranted harsher physical punishment (though he might have been fined or had lands confiscated).

A high profile example here is Lord Thomas Cochrane. His title "Lord" took priority over knighthood so he was called that (he was the eldest son of an earl) but he did have a knighthood (of Bath, earned in naval service). I see that someone else remembered him too while I was typing.
The accusation of fraud... Short overview of that..
In the first months of 1814, Britons were hoping to defeat France after 20 years of war - British and allied (Russian, Prussian, Austrian) armied were invading France after 20 years, but Napoleon was defending.
Lord Cochrane invested a lot of money gambling on victory: he bought a lot of government debt in form called "Omnium" which was quite volatile and was going to gain much value in case of victory. And gave his stockbroker standing instructions to sell his stocks if victory does come and the stock price rises.
On 21st of February, some pretended officers arrived with news of Napoleon´s defeat and death. The price of Omnium duly rose and Lord Cochrane (and some others) promptly sold their stocks.
Same evening, it was found to be fake news. Napoleon eventually was defeated (and surrendered alive) but it took another month and a half of war.
There certainly were some frauds involved. The people who brought the news were plainly liars. The question was who their accomplices were.
The man who arranged the fraud had met Lord Cochrane. Cochrane claimed he had talked of other business and had not let Cochrane in on the news being false.
In June 1814, Cochrane was tried... and after 12 days of trial found guilty by jury. The punishment: a fine, 12 months in prison, and to stand in pillory for an hour. The other defendants got similar punishments.
Public opinion was greatly divided - a lot of people thought him guilty, a lot - innocent.
His knighthood was taken away. So was his navy rank. The House of Commons voted to expel him... and the electorate of his constituency promptly voted to reelect him. The sentence of pillory was cancelled because of expectations of public reaction.

Now how did Cochrane get his knighthood back?
Not as long as the same king (Prince Regent future George IV) and same party (Tories) ruled.
However, when George IV died and was replaced by his brother William IV, and Tory party by Whigs, then the opinion changed... and early in 1832, Cochrane (by then he had inherited his father´s earldom of Dundonald) was given a pardon and got back his navy rank (and actually one rank promotion). But then not knighthood - on grounds that Cochrane had been duly convicted by a legitimate jury and court.
Cochrane, then 56 years old, refused to actually serve, on grounds that he had not got his knightgood back.
In the rest of William IV-s time and first years of Victoria, Cochrane was repeatedly given nominal small promotions of rank without actually serving. In 1847, when Victoria gave him back knighthood (and Cochrane was 71), he agreed to return to active service and actually did serve in active service.
When the degradation happened will also cause problems. If it was very recently, the person who degraded him is going to look foolish if s/he's now having to crawl back and reconfer the honour. That kind of thing makes a ruler look weak, which then undermines his/her authority; it also causes resentment amongst other knights/courtiers if they don't like your character.


That actually seems far less believable to me than having the knighthood re-conferred. Knighthoods are given for a lot of reasons, but that seems a dubious one, even if magical powers aren't widespread. Far better that he was originally knighted for something he did.
In a world where magic is real but rare and valuable, I don´t see it as awfully improbable.
And for me this is wholly unbelievable. Outlaws are renegades, and punishment for them is harsh. Forget tales of Robin Hood. Frankly, if you're stepping so far outside genuine historical mores in this way then I can't see why you're worried about reality as to why and how a former knight would be knighted again.
Reversals of outlawry were common. Robin Hood was problematic precisely because he was a yeoman. But noble outlaws? Henry VII was an outlaw, and his first Parliament was faced with the legal puzzle as to whether his own outlawry needed formal lifting or ended automatically by his victory at Bosworth. A number of revolts/civil wars were resolved by compromise... which included pardoning outlawries.
Now a question is whether a knight in open revolt, or a fugitive after a failed revolt, is a knight during the revolt. And this is something on which the king and the rebel´s comrades may well disagree!
That might allow the monarch/whoever to ignore his outlawry, but why re-confer the knighthood? What good does it do? If your character has demanded it as a price for his co-operation (though keeping his head attached to his body is all he might expect if he's been captured), then you need a good reason for it since it doesn't of itself provide him with money or lands, not does it automatically confer the respect of his peers or those under him.
Thomas Cochrane got job offer with his pardon and restoration of rank in 1832. He had his father´s lands unmolested (apart from the £1000 fine that he had paid). Yet he refused active service (and active service pay) till he got his knighthood back in 1847.
As for the issue of his being an assassin, while Brian is right as to the historical nature of them, I don't think it's an issue -- you're just using a common accepted term for a hired killer, and I'm certain there were plenty of those around in medieval Europe in one guise or another.

There are two issues here IMO:

1. Knighthood - there's no central authority for this, it's effectively just any lord who wants to reward one of his men with authority and title. So if any lord wants to give a person a knighthood, that's their business, regardless of their past. And in the European mediaeval period, many people had murky pasts.
That varies wildly depending on period and region. As late as 14th century, it was not just lords who could confer knighthood. One Robert Knolles, Esq., then about 34 year old, was accepted as commander of an army of 2000...3000 men, including several knights. After successfully besieging the city of Auxerre, his two subordinates who were knights conferred knighthood on him - and it was generally accepted elsewhere as valid.
By 16th century, however, English knights and lords no longer were allowed to confer knighthood. Commanders of expeditionary forces were allowed to do so, but the permission to confer knighthood was expressly named in the letters of appointment by English monarch. In 17th century there were some experiments allowing colonial governors to create knights; but it seems that after 1700 no commanders of British expeditionary forces had that right nor any colonial governor except that of Ireland (and in 18th century, Lords Justices of Ireland).
Cochrane served in three navies while a convicted crook. Chilean, Brazilian and Greek. Since particularly Chile and Greece were republican rebels against established monarchy, Cochrane was arguably an outlaw. For the same reasons, Chile and Greece were not into making knights or lords. Empire of Brazil did make Cochrane a Marquess of Maranhao, though as a lifetime title. Did Cochrane, or his contemporaries in Britain, act as if "Marquess of Maranhao" outranked his lower British titles "Lord Cochrane" and "Earl Dundonald"?
 
In a world where magic is real but rare and valuable, I don´t see it as awfully improbable.
Bunch of examples, actually, but not mages (of course - lacking in Europe).
Sir Francis Bacon was knighted in 1603. (For being a wealthy landowner and lawyer. James I was running a campaign of distinguishing lots of men of such descriptions as knights. Being a scientist was sir Francis´ hobby).
Sir Isaac Newton, knighted in 1705. Probably a political manipulation of some sort, not strictly reward for his scientific fame, nor for his service as Master of Mint.
The whole Order of the Polar Star (of Sweden). Expressly to reward "civic merits, for devotion to duty, for science, literary, learned and useful works and for new and beneficial institutions". Founded 1748. Members are expressly "knights" except if they are clerks or women in which case they are "members". First civilian member (1753) was Carolus Linnaeus. A nonhereditary honour. L. went on to get hereditary nobility too (1758-1761) and his son L. f. duly inherited nobility but not knighthood.
 
There are two issues here IMO:

1. Knighthood - there's no central authority for this, it's effectively just any lord who wants to reward one of his men with authority and title. So if any lord wants to give a person a knighthood, that's their business, regardless of their past. And in the European mediaeval period, many people had murky pasts.

2. Hashassassins - these were a radical Islamic group formed with the specific aim of killing crusaders. So anyone joining this group is effectively going to be a Muslim killing Christian lords. I don't see any Christian knight easily being accepted into any such group, but if it ever were possible, it would likely make that person infamous in the eyes of Christendom and could even get Papal attention and condemnation, in which case the chances of such a person being accepted and rewarded by Christian lords is pretty much zero IMO.
In reference to your first point, I thought that to be a knight in the real world you'd have to be of noble lineage, have someone of a noble lineage willing to take you in eventually to become a knight (which if I understand correctly is a rarity,) or by the ceremonial dubbing of a knight by the king. Where my story differs is that although this could be the case, due to the nature of the magic system, when he was a child he was made a page then he progressed into knighthood because of the value of his craft.

Secondly I am aware of what Hashashin's are and when I mentioned them I was trying to distinguish him from the assassins that are hashashin, because if I am not mistaken assassins in the literal since are hashashin but people use that word as if it refers to any group who matches some of the characteristics. So basically I was trying to say HE IS NOT an assassin in the literal sense.
 
Then I think this is your first priority because the reason will determine what others think of him.

It must have been something serious, because if it were done for a petty offence it's not going to be credible -- and will cause alarm among other knights who feel their own titles might be in jeopardy. On the other hand, the offence can't be so bad that it's warranted harsher physical punishment (though he might have been fined or had lands confiscated).

When the degradation happened will also cause problems. If it was very recently, the person who degraded him is going to look foolish if s/he's now having to crawl back and reconfer the honour. That kind of thing makes a ruler look weak, which then undermines his/her authority; it also causes resentment amongst other knights/courtiers if they don't like your character.


That actually seems far less believable to me than having the knighthood re-conferred. Knighthoods are given for a lot of reasons, but that seems a dubious one, even if magical powers aren't widespread. Far better that he was originally knighted for something he did.


And for me this is wholly unbelievable. Outlaws are renegades, and punishment for them is harsh. Forget tales of Robin Hood. Frankly, if you're stepping so far outside genuine historical mores in this way then I can't see why you're worried about reality as to why and how a former knight would be knighted again.


That might allow the monarch/whoever to ignore his outlawry, but why re-confer the knighthood? What good does it do? If your character has demanded it as a price for his co-operation (though keeping his head attached to his body is all he might expect if he's been captured), then you need a good reason for it since it doesn't of itself provide him with money or lands, not does it automatically confer the respect of his peers or those under him.


As for the issue of his being an assassin, while Brian is right as to the historical nature of them, I don't think it's an issue -- you're just using a common accepted term for a hired killer, and I'm certain there were plenty of those around in medieval Europe in one guise or another.
Thanks for mentioning some of the plot holes, and the believability issues. Some of it could make more sense in the context of the story, while others was the reason why I asked this in the first place because a lot of the points you made has come to mind.
In regard to the reason behind why he was un-knighted I am aware I should've came up with that first, but there's so many reasons as to why that could've happened, and so many reasons why that could be a bad idea on the countries part, or it could ask the question of why he was even un-knighted in the first place, if he could just get it back somehow. So this has really been holding me back in regards to plotting, I definitely want to buy books on the matter but can't this very moment.
 
There are a number of issues here.

There are different reasons for being a knight at different times and in different places.

The usual situation was for a person to made a knight due to services rendered to his monarch or their representative. He could be stripped of it if he did something to offend them (eg treason) or make his position untenable (eg doing something to offend the Church).

Thomas Cromwell for example, who had just about every title available at that time, was stripped of them all and executed as 'Thomas Cromwell, cloth carder'.

For a knight to be stripped of his title, and to them be given the chance to reclaim it would be very difficult. Usually the person disgraced wouldn't be in a position of trust to be able to do so, but it was possible. For example Thomas Cochrane lost knighthood for fraud. Consequently he went to South America and assisted in the Brazilian, Chilean and Peruvian revolutions, before returning to England as Rear Admiral and having the Order of the Bath reinstated by Queen Victoria.

But in earlier times knighthood was more about honour and chivalry as it was about a mere title. An honourable knight wouldn't have used magic, or become an assassin. And if they somehow 'fell' (eg Lancelot) they would have to go to great lengths in order to redeem their honour and their self esteem.

On the other hand, knights were often the 'right hand man' of their lord; whatever they were told to do they did, however dishonourable. If they didn't then they would be out of a job. For instance Sir James Tyrrell was supposedly ordered to murder the 'Princes in the Tower' by Richard III. Henry VII (who defeated Richard) did not demote or condemn Tyrrell; in fact he pardoned and reappointed him as governor in Calais.

Basically with knights, you have lots of different options, especially in a fictitious world with magic. Some knights were good, some were bad. A knight was usually appointed because of the usefulness he could provide to his master; he could be stripped of that title if his usefulness came to an end. If he was again in a position were he could prove useful, or he did something extraordinarily brave or heroic to atone, then he could be reinstated to his position.

As long as you make it understandable and logical, then you will be fine.
Yes a lot of this has come to mind, which is why this story is so hard to plot. Thanks for giving me directions as to what to look more into regarding this, and the part about Thomas Cochrane was interesting, the big thing in this story that I'm trying to figure out is for what logical reason would a person like this become a knight again, which I guess I still would have to look more into, as being a knight in medieval times and being Thomas Cochrane are two different things.
 
A high profile example here is Lord Thomas Cochrane. His title "Lord" took priority over knighthood so he was called that (he was the eldest son of an earl) but he did have a knighthood (of Bath, earned in naval service). I see that someone else remembered him too while I was typing.
The accusation of fraud... Short overview of that..
In the first months of 1814, Britons were hoping to defeat France after 20 years of war - British and allied (Russian, Prussian, Austrian) armied were invading France after 20 years, but Napoleon was defending.
Lord Cochrane invested a lot of money gambling on victory: he bought a lot of government debt in form called "Omnium" which was quite volatile and was going to gain much value in case of victory. And gave his stockbroker standing instructions to sell his stocks if victory does come and the stock price rises.
On 21st of February, some pretended officers arrived with news of Napoleon´s defeat and death. The price of Omnium duly rose and Lord Cochrane (and some others) promptly sold their stocks.
Same evening, it was found to be fake news. Napoleon eventually was defeated (and surrendered alive) but it took another month and a half of war.
There certainly were some frauds involved. The people who brought the news were plainly liars. The question was who their accomplices were.
The man who arranged the fraud had met Lord Cochrane. Cochrane claimed he had talked of other business and had not let Cochrane in on the news being false.
In June 1814, Cochrane was tried... and after 12 days of trial found guilty by jury. The punishment: a fine, 12 months in prison, and to stand in pillory for an hour. The other defendants got similar punishments.
Public opinion was greatly divided - a lot of people thought him guilty, a lot - innocent.
His knighthood was taken away. So was his navy rank. The House of Commons voted to expel him... and the electorate of his constituency promptly voted to reelect him. The sentence of pillory was cancelled because of expectations of public reaction.

Now how did Cochrane get his knighthood back?
Not as long as the same king (Prince Regent future George IV) and same party (Tories) ruled.
However, when George IV died and was replaced by his brother William IV, and Tory party by Whigs, then the opinion changed... and early in 1832, Cochrane (by then he had inherited his father´s earldom of Dundonald) was given a pardon and got back his navy rank (and actually one rank promotion). But then not knighthood - on grounds that Cochrane had been duly convicted by a legitimate jury and court.
Cochrane, then 56 years old, refused to actually serve, on grounds that he had not got his knightgood back.
In the rest of William IV-s time and first years of Victoria, Cochrane was repeatedly given nominal small promotions of rank without actually serving. In 1847, when Victoria gave him back knighthood (and Cochrane was 71), he agreed to return to active service and actually did serve in active service.
this whole comment (not just this part) Illustrates when someone way better at explaining and research, speaks your mind and some.
 
In reference to your first point, I thought that to be a knight in the real world you'd have to be of noble lineage, have someone of a noble lineage willing to take you in eventually to become a knight (which if I understand correctly is a rarity,) or by the ceremonial dubbing of a knight by the king.
This varied widely by period and region.
The initial meaning of "knight" was "a warrior trained and qualified to fight as heavy cavalry, with adequate recommendations for this". That was the main sense in about X...XII century. Which means that a great majority of knights back in X...XI century were not regarded as "noble".
People who WERE noble were sometimes ceremonially dubbed by XI century... not necessarily by king, but by another respectable noble.
Kings could and did dub knights... initially as simply another lord or respectable noble. It is only since XIII century that they claimed special rights to dub knights, and at first not completely excluding other nobles (see Sir Robert Knolles aforesaid).
By XVIII century, King of Great Britain was claiming right to create knights by stroke of pen, without arranging for actual dubbing. Napoleon I created tens of thousands of knights by a stroke of pen in 1808, without dubbing any of them. France has about 300 000 knights now living who are not required to be noble, French nor male. Nor created by a king or emperor, for they are created by presidents.
Where my story differs is that although this could be the case, due to the nature of the magic system, when he was a child he was made a page then he progressed into knighthood because of the value of his craft.
"Made a page"? Was he someone who was likely to become a knight regardless?
Besides the XVII-XVIII century scientists, there are earlier examples of knights whose knighting was controversial. Like Sir Nicholas Brembre. A grocer, financial agent of king and Lord Mayor of London. Impeached by Lords Repellent. When he was impeached, asked for a trial by battle, which challenge the Parliament accepted by acclamation... and then changed their mind, to refuse him the honour of trial as a proper knight and to hang, draw and quarter him instead.

or it could ask the question of why he was even un-knighted in the first place, if he could just get it back somehow.
Confiscating property is not useless even if it sometimes happens that the property holder with political changes comes back to reclaim it, or gets new property. Knighthood is not an asset to transfer; but when someone is an outlaw/fugitive from the community where he is in disgrace, taking away honours shows that the people taking the honours away are serious about them and that when in exile, he is not an expatriate in good standing allowed to draw on property and protection back home.
 
Yes a lot of this has come to mind, which is why this story is so hard to plot. Thanks for giving me directions as to what to look more into regarding this, and the part about Thomas Cochrane was interesting, the big thing in this story that I'm trying to figure out is for what logical reason would a person like this become a knight again, which I guess I still would have to look more into, as being a knight in medieval times and being Thomas Cochrane are two different things.


Yes I agree, Cochrane came from a different era. Of course an easy way out of this is for him to have been wrongly accused of something worthy of losing his knighthood for; a sub-plot could be him trying to prove his innocence to regain it.
 

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