What are Your Thoughts on Disney's Ownership of the Marvel And Star Wars Franchises ?

[BAYLOR]

What do you think Disney has done well and not so well with both?

 

[Rodders]

Rant mode unlocked, Baylor.

If Disney hadn’t bought Marvel I suspect it would’ve gone under. I really enjoyed the movies I’ve seen because they’re very enjoyable and competent movies and as a franchise, I think they have a clear plan. Tying in over 20 movies was an incredible achievement. Well done.

I was let down by Disney's handling of Star Wars, but I remain both faithful and hopeful. To be fair, i think they’ve tried to be hands off and I think a lot of the blame for Star Wars lays with the head of Lucasfilm, Kathleen Kennedy.

The sequel movies were not good movies. Lazy, cliched writing that meander without a credible plot or back story. Strong OT heroes were pretty stupidly killed off. (I appreciate that Disney would want to lose the old heroes to make way for new ones, but come on.) Characters like Finn, Poe and Rose were completely wasted and Disney didn't seem to know what to do with them. Allowing the directors to write there own stories without an overarching series plot was negligent

That said, they have done a lot of things well. Jedi: Fallen Order was a great game. Rogue One was the better of all of the Star Wars movies. The Mandalorian is also very good too, although I have only seen the first series. Ironically enough, I think the Sequel Trilogy made the Prequel Trilogy better films. They bought the franchise to draw in young teenage boys, but their use of OT characters on their TV shows suggests they're trying to mollify those that grew up with the original trilogy.

I really hated what they tried to do to Alan Dean Foster. It was unethical to say the least.

I think Disney thought they could do anything with Star Wars and it’d remain a cash how for them. Well... no.

 

[Le Panda du Mal]

The recent examples I've seen from both franchises are entertaining in parts but mostly feel like the soulless product of committee-writing with the guiding principle being "market research suggests this character/ plot point will score well with audiences."

Overall I think it is a very bad thing that "popular" culture is increasingly centralized in the hands of a few corporations. I put "popular" in scare quotes because it is popular only in a crude numerical sense, that is, the number of people that passively consume it. It is deeply unpopular in terms of ownership, participation, and control.

 

[paranoid marvin]

Almost every Marvel movie I've seen I've enjoyed. The get the right blend of action, comedy and storytelling. And as Rodders says, to get so many into one overarcing story that (largely) makes sense is a great achievement. Such a divergent blend of genres and types of movie - I think

You only have to look at the attempted DC universe to see how easily it could have gone wrong. Superman vs Batman in the Marvel universe would have been an entirely different beast.

As for Star Wars - well Rogue One is the best SW movie since ROTJ, and there are times when I consider it to be the best SW of them all. Yes, the sequel movies aren't always fantastic, but when you compare them to the prequels they are masterpieces.

 

[Swank]

The edgiest thing Disney ever did was Tron.

 

[BAYLOR]

The edgiest thing Disney ever did was Tron.

I loved both Tron films . I wish they'd do a third film.

 

[Swank]

I loved both Tron films . I wish they'd do a third film.

I don't know what they were thinking doing the sequel like they did.

 

[BAYLOR]

I don't know what they were thinking doing the sequel like they did.

I liked that sequel .

 

[JunkMonkey]

The edgiest thing Disney ever did was Tron.

Oh, killing off the princess in Dragonslayer wasn't by the book and bits of Return to Oz were downright creepy.

 

[Swank]

Oh, killing off the princess in Dragonslayer wasn't by the book and bits of Return to Oz were downright creepy.

I never realized Disney had anything to do with DS. ILM did the effects. It's my favorite classic fantasy movie.

However, that the two edgiest Disney films were 40 years ago just makes my point.

 

[Harpo]

Marvel have just announced the title of this current series, (which includes all their Disney+ series, of which five more are coming next year) culminating in two Avengers films in 2025.

After this, they will probably (in my opinion) succumb to the law of diminishing returns et cetera

 

[Bick]

I’m not a die hard comic fan, so haven’t much cared what they did to Marvel. The films seem okay, for what they are.
They’ve broken Star Wars, and I can never forgive that.

 

[KGeo777]

What has Disney done well...
that's tough to answer--I suppose not doing a sequel to the Star Wars Holiday special...thus far.

I don't blame them completely for the lame trajectory they took Star Wars in because Lucas was going down that path himself. People who can't see that in the original films and prequels need to pay closer attention. All the sign posts are there. Plus, I think Star Wars was never something that could really endure--it was a SPFX showcase with a Flash Gordon coating. It was never intended as something coherent in story. It's very inconsistent. When Luke gets to Dagobah his personality completely changes.

I suppose I can throw them a bone for the ambitious attempt to make a series of Marvel films in short order but I think it's mostly a big failure because they were more inclined towards comedy and mediocre melodrama than adventure. And sorry it is to say, when Sleeping Beauty was made, the scene where Maleficent shows the prince that she plans to keep him a prisoner for decades and release him when he is really old, that was supposed to be an evil plan-to Walt Disney and the audience. Who could have guessed that decades later, Disney management would see Maleficent's plan and go: "that's a great idea!"

I think Marvel could have sustained a good series of adventure films if they weren't so non-traditional about the approach. They cranked up the politics with each new film.

As for Dragonslayer, it was a mixed bag for me. I liked the foreshadowing of the dragon by using effigies and stone carvings--before you see the real thing--and there's something melancholy about it--you feel sorry for the dragon--the one very effective shot of the dragon finding the dead babies and the head rising up into view--that was a little puppet they used, and with the music--that was an effective spfx sequence.
But, it is a subversive story because the king is corrupt and his daughter gets her foot chewed off and some say that was done as a mocking rebuke to the Disney princess concept. It's counterculture and I don't think it ages that well. It was criticized at the time as a Star Wars clone--and if they mean that the Peter McNicol character is rather feeble then yes--because in the end it is the wizard who has to take on the dragon.
It's a Disney-Paramount production so Michael Eisner was an executive at Paramount around that time--he was eyeing the prize, like Sauron thinking about the ring. Had to be patient a little longer.

"My precious."

 

[Swank]

It was criticized at the time as a Star Wars clone--and if they mean that the Peter McNicol character is rather feeble then yes--because in the end it is the wizard who has to take on the dragon.

The wizard became the Holy Handgrenade, but I don't think that takes away from all the heavy lifting McNicol did to get him there.

 

[KGeo777]

The wizard became the Holy Handgrenade, but I don't think that takes away from all the heavy lifting McNicol did to get him there.

But he's playing a Luke clone--he's the reluctant unlikely hero. And the girl is more masculine than him actually.
It's similar to Jaws in some ways---the corruption of the town, the police chief is also a reluctant hero--I guess we could say the wizard is the oxygen tank stuck in the mouth.

 

[Rodders]

With Star Wars, Disney have obviously taken it for granted and i think that's why they are trying to win older fans back with TV shows on characters we already love. I think this is a bad idea as it demystifies the character and makes the Star Wars galaxy a small place.

I think there is enough space for new, original stories that are darker and more adult in tone. The Star Wars galaxy is not a nice place, so there should be plenty of material and story ideas.

I noticed the other day that Games Workshop now have a line of Warhammer Crime and Warhammer Horror books. I think this is quite exciting and wouldn't mind this for the Star Wars galaxy.

 

[BAYLOR]

The wizard became the Holy Handgrenade, but I don't think that takes away from all the heavy lifting McNicol did to get him there.

Dragonslayer is one of the best fantasy films of all time .

 

[paranoid marvin]

I never realized Disney had anything to do with DS. ILM did the effects. It's my favorite classic fantasy movie.

However, that the two edgiest Disney films were 40 years ago just makes my point.

Wouldn't you say that Rogue One was pretty edgy (well, at least as edgy as a SW movie could be)?

It's also a movie that is basically a backstory to a 40+ year old movie, so it doesn't have a 'proper' ending. If ever there was a 'for the fans' movie, then this was it. And Darth has never been more portrayed more spectacularly than he was at the end of the film.

 

[BAYLOR]

Wouldn't you say that Rogue One was pretty edgy (well, at least as edgy as a SW movie could be)?

It's also a movie that is basically a backstory to a 40+ year old movie, so it doesn't have a 'proper' ending. If ever there was a 'for the fans' movie, then this was it. And Darth has never been more portrayed more spectacularly than he was at the end of the film.

I found Rogue One to be surprisingly good .

 

[paranoid marvin]

I’m not a die hard comic fan, so haven’t much cared what they did to Marvel. The films seem okay, for what they are.
They’ve broken Star Wars, and I can never forgive that.

For me, George Lucas broke SW with Phantom Menace. I still remember going to the cinema with such excitement and trepidation; and when I came out afterwards it took some time to register what I had just seen. How could the same man who had directed ESB have created this movie?

I felt exactly the same about the story he created for Crystal Skull. How could the same bloke who wrote the story for Last Crusade have written this?

Rogue One was the movie that I hoped I was going to watch back in 1999. I'm pretty convinced that Lucas has lost the magic that could have created a film like that now. The sequel films are not as good as the original trilogy or Rogue One. But they are hampered by having to cast characters that we know and love, in a world without Darth Vader (who was the most compelling character of the original trilogy) and with actors who simply aren't as youthful (And perhaps not as charismatic) as they once were. They have faults, but if we have to have them, then they were acceptable.

The whole branching out of the tv series is definitely weakening the core of the original trilogy, and it certainly doesn't fee as special as it once was. But we just have to accept that, and for a new generation of viewers who have immediate access to everything instantly (we had to put up with waiting for ESB on Christmas day) then an ever expanding universe of characters is what they want and expect.

For me, the prequels don't exist, and I'll never watch them again. I'll stick to the original trilogy + Rogue One. But I will check out some of the new movies and tv shows at some point.