Character dossiers.

[Swank]

Ah sorry, now it's clearer. You're making a good point about coming back to what's important to the story. People didn't need to know why Solo was a scoundrel to enjoy him as a character. All we got were hints to his past and that he had a backstory, but it pretty much just added detail until it bit him in the bum and that subplot doesn't even take up that much time over three movies. Mostly it's just there for the writer to be able to make informed decisions about what the character would do, and there are other ways to get consistency or explain lack of consistency.

More than that, Solo becomes a character of interest during the story, not before. For maybe the first time in his life, he starts making interesting choices and using old skills for much more useful endeavors. And that's really what SW is about - what those characters do now and how that makes them into protagonists.

 

[DLCroix]

The characters should be like fossils: you discover them as you unearth them. Besides, history always comes first; therefore, we must try to ensure that these details of the characters are related to the story; one, for a plot thing and two, for economy of words: you don't have to get overwhelmed or you can bore the reader.

 

[The Big Peat]

We mightn't know much of Bond's or Solo's pasts, but we know a good amount about Ned Stark's. There is no one true way as to how much detail about a character's past and why they make the decisions they do there should be, either on the page or in the author's head.


As for the questionnaires and building around small things - I have to admit it never worked for me, but good on you if it does.


What I'm increasingly finding making sense in my head, although I rarely go and actually do it, is to push for 50k (or so) in a story and then sit down and make sense and codify and refine what I've found. And although I rarely do it, I get my best results when I do. That'd be when I did my questionnaires if any.

 

[Bramandin]

The characters should be like fossils: you discover them as you unearth them. Besides, history always comes first; therefore, we must try to ensure that these details of the characters are related to the story; one, for a plot thing and two, for economy of words: you don't have to get overwhelmed or you can bore the reader.

You're right in that I'm probably getting overwhelmed. All I need to know is what they would do in the situations I put them into and why.

Sometimes the why is elusive. I'm guessing that a lot of people's reasons for doing something is cultural inertia, but that doesn't seem like it would be satisfying as a fictional character's motivation. In The Colors of the Dreamweaver's Loom, the heroine wanders away from her car on the highway for no good reason to get lost in the woods even though she doesn't want to get in trouble with the road patrols. Then after her world-hopping, she undertakes a dangerous quest to help her new friends and it feels like "that's just what good people do" though she mentions Native American tribes and being upset about that. Granted, the danger escalates slowly from just talking to a ruler to going on an errand for a god, and people often continue something that was only easy at the start.

 

[DLCroix]

You're right in that I'm probably getting overwhelmed. All I need to know is what they would do in the situations I put them into and why.

Sometimes the why is elusive. I'm guessing that a lot of people's reasons for doing something is cultural inertia, but that doesn't seem like it would be satisfying as a fictional character's motivation. In The Colors of the Dreamweaver's Loom, the heroine wanders away from her car on the highway for no good reason to get lost in the woods even though she doesn't want to get in trouble with the road patrols. Then after her world-hopping, she undertakes a dangerous quest to help her new friends and it feels like "that's just what good people do" though she mentions Native American tribes and being upset about that. Granted, the danger escalates slowly from just talking to a ruler to going on an errand for a god, and people often continue something that was only easy at the start.

Again I see something that I observed in another thread of yours even though this one is older. But in summary I would advise you that it is good that you describe the doubts and thoughts of your characters, that you make them make mistakes, even have incorrect beliefs about some things, and even feel envy of others. However, first thing: try not to extend yourself too much and, second: try to understand that your characters must be functional for your story and therefore they must act according to it, everything else is accessory and already in a later editing process finally you will see if it stays or is cut, dwelling on the details is good, but there may be repetition of details or these may also ultimately be superfluous. More or less the general rule is that if it serves the story, it stays; if not, it is deleted.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

I did a degree in drama and, to be honest, I act mu characters to get to know them. Accents, the lot. On e o know the, I can sink back into each very easily.

 

[DLCroix]

I did a degree in drama and, to be honest, I act mu characters to get to know them. Accents, the lot. On e o know the, I can sink back into each very easily.

Yes, that art basically reflects what many of us did as children when we made our toys speak and act: an unconscious simile of the show versus tell of the puppeteer. Literature, obviously, allows us to delve into the minds of our creatures, although I think that once again it is a question of seeking a balance between one aspect and another. In my case, I try to have the elegant frivolity for the details of Burgess (one here, another there), the conceptual precision (synthesis) of William Gibson and the overlapping with which Pérez-Reverte turns the page flipper into an exciting adventure.

 

[feralreason]

>It might be better to back-fill their childhood as those experiences become relevant to the plot.It might be better to back-fill their childhood as those experiences become relevant to the plot.

Yes, this. I do a lot of back-filling as I develop the story. I have a character, for example, who generally dislikes and mistrusts the nobility. I threw that on him like one throws on a new coat, just to see if it fit. It felt right after a while, seemed useful in story development, but then I had to ask *why* the character had that attitude. I found a historical event that seemed suited to the purpose and had a noble cause the death of someone the MC respected and admired. A classic case of noble privilege doing damage.

I'm still fuzzy on the details of exactly what happened, and how close to the event the MC was (did he witness it? hear about it?), but I tend to address such details as I need to in order to move the story forward. I should add that this doesn't necessarily mean as I'm writing the story. Sometimes such back-filling happens as I'm thinking and taking notes--sketching with words. Sometimes the details never even make it into the story, but they form the weave of what makes the character, so when I come to write a scene, it's there to inform the character's actions.

I think one reason why I never found character sheets, in all their various forms, to be helpful is because my process is so iterative. It's primarily a dialectic between plot and character, with setting and theme sometimes chiming in. Whether it's outlining the story or making a character dossier, doing all that up front never seems to survive even the first chapter or two of actual writing. That said, I recognize there are others who make detailed sketches of their characters.

If I were a playwright, I'd have characters come on stage and then everyone on stage would have to take a few moments deciding on the newcomer's name! I'd make a terrible playwright.

Decades ago, I attended a writing workshop (several semesters in a row) and remember the leader getting on my case about my character's names. He wanted them to be meaningful in some way - either to their background or their purpose in the story. In the last week, I reread Aristophanes' Lysistrata and decided to do a little analysis of the names. If you don't remember, "Lysistrata" is a woman trying to stop the Peloponesian war by convincing all the women to go on a sexual strike until Sparta and Athens stop fighting. Well - in ancient greek, "Lysis" means to separate or divide and "strata" means 'army' ('strata' is where we get our name for "strategy". A "strategos" was a general.) So - I think I'm going to read a few more of Aristophanes' plays. (Heinlein is someone else who gave very careful thought to naming.)

 

[Swank]

Decades ago, I attended a writing workshop (several semesters in a row) and remember the leader getting on my case about my character's names. He wanted them to be meaningful in some way - either to their background or their purpose in the story.

I totally get this. My MC is Guy Ladypantsremover.

 

[msstice]

He wanted them to be meaningful in some way - either to their background or their purpose in the story.

And this is how we end up with Ludo Bagman, Voldemort, Sirius Black, Lupin, LeStrange and so on and so forth. I don't know. It's a bit too _obvious_ for me, but what do I know. Maybe naming a character Barty CupBringer makes it easier for us to remember he's the butler.

 

[ColGray]

I've gotten more formal with this process and break things down into 5 concrete categories that are universal to any character/story. Specifically, in a 3 act structure, this kind of breakdown helps tighten act 2 (the sagging middle) because it allows me to ask whether each component is in furtherance of the desires, or out of alignment.

1. External Desire: A physical thing they want
   1. Ex: Money, a McGuffin, Safety
   2. Related Obstacle: No job, Guarded by McGuffin-ites, In a warzone
2. Internal Desire: What the aspire to be
   1. Ex: Someone Who Is Respected, Revenge
   2. Related Obstacle: Low self-worth, no knowledge of how to get revenge
3. Wound: What's driving their internal & external desires
   1. Ex: Parent didn't value them, sibling murdered by powerful mage
4. Flaw: What can arrest their progress or happiness?
   1. Ex: Confidence can be undermined, Questions their right to happiness

Subcategory: "Character who doesn't want anything". Specific question of, Does the lack of desire define the character, or am I being lazy? Do I need this character? If yes, what do they add if they lack desire?

Obstacles can then be broken down into a few categories. The more obstacles, and they more they inter-relate and support one another and work against the wound and flaw, the better.

1. People
   
   1. Someone working against the character
   2. Accomplice or helper
2. Society
   
   1. Do the social constructs aid or impede the character and their goal?
3. Metaphysical (Optional)
   
   1. Is there something in the story's metaphysical rules that stands as obstacle (ex: You're born with magic or you're not)
4. Inner Demon
   
   1. Specific manifestations of flaw because of their wound
5. Terrain
   
   1. Cold, rain, weather, oceans, etc

Ultimately, it results in a few, specific bullets that are easy to maintain and reference. When I'm thinking about, How would this character react, it makes the answer much easier to find and feel much "truer" afterwards.

 

[ColGray]

And this is how we end up with Ludo Bagman, Voldemort, Sirius Black, Lupin, LeStrange and so on and so forth. I don't know. It's a bit too _obvious_ for me, but what do I know. Maybe naming a character Barty CupBringer makes it easier for us to remember he's the butler.

I remember reading some MFA drivel years ago where the MC was named Guy Goodman or Guy Everyman or something like that-- I stopped reading as soon as the name was used and then had to wash the scent of cloves and David Foster Wallace fanboi off my hands.

TBF, at least in the English language, it likely comes from the history of people having last names aligned to their profession. John Cooper was... a cooper. And even old characters, like Morgana LeFey, tell you who they are with their names. There's a line, somewhere, between being creative and being "cute"--but finding the line can be a challenge.

 

[Steve Harrison]

I don't have any characters when I start a novel other than vague shadowy figures, although I tend to know if they are male or female. However, in my WIP I killed off the guy I thought was the main character and the MC is now his sister.

I 'backfill' character details as I go along, constantly editing and making sure anything they do, surprising to me or not, is in character for them. It's actually a lot of fun, particularly later in the story when they have to face things that may be out of character, which can create some interesting tension.

 

[JimC]

" (Heinlein is someone else who gave very careful thought to naming.)"

Ginny was responsible for the name choices in many of his stories