Sci-fi plot issues. Requesting ideas!

[Flaviosky]

Hello!

Some weeks ago I found an old manuscript of mine with a proto-layout of a fantasy novel, much simpler than the one I'm working on right now.

The thing is, I wanted to try something different and start morphing it into a sci-fi story by transforming certain magic-related elements into a coherent set of sci-fi elements (for example, some magic turned into nano-technology working with genetic engineering).

The main conflict is a cataclysmic event laid upon a planet, suffering an assault of mighty beasts that have affected different civilizations in various ways. These civilizations opted different types of defense, with various outcomes. These beasts have been tracked down and fulminated, but the event repeats with increasing number and power for the beasts' horde.

In this quest, I've come with certain aspects that have been more difficult to resolve, and I'd love to have some ideas.

1) This is sci-fi, so I can't find a consistent way to explain why the civilizations could just flee and go find another planet instead of fighting, when doing so has proven uneffective. Also I can't find a good reason not to have an alien race with the solution.

2) One civilization researched time travel to go back in time and prevent the cataclysmic event from triggering, but the process goes wrong and the scouter team ends up in present day Earth, and the MC ends up going back with the scouters by accident. The lack of proper equipement in the journey back makes the MC suffer genetic modifications that end up with him having the same abilities of an elite military faction of genetically-modified and nano-enhanced soldiers. This elite force is product of extensive and secret human experiments filled with failure and death, and these elite soldiers have the unoficcial task to hunt down a rogue soldier that went through the same harsh process but fled, who is actually the one who is leading the beasts.

The problem is that this MC feels arbitrary, like a stroke of luck too convenient for the plot. I'd love to have this character as powerful as this military elite to build that conflict, but I still feel that I need a better catalyst.

3) I can't find a good reason on why the time-travel wouldn't be done again. Any form of scarcity feels weird in a sci-fi setting.

I'd love to know your opinions.

 

[DLCroix]

Create a cross conflict.
1. To get to those other planets your ships need fuel, Dune's melange, Star Wars lightning-jump hypo-thrusters, you name it, the point is that without that your ships can't travel. That is why they have no choice but to defend themselves against the invaders.
1 B. Furthermore, this creates a financing problem. That is to say, that trip could be possible, but other civilizations are opposed, so in order to have money there is no alternative but to invent a Covid-type virus so that those nations anyway loose the money by buying the vaccines. Oh, it is very repetitive (and how badly thought I am!). But it is the usual, the most powerful creates internal wars in other countries or other continents, overthrow regimes and provoke revolutions, whatever it takes to have fresh money and not make to their caste have to work.
2. Here comes the crossover conflict. How do bugs get to the planet? In addition, civilizations do not want to go out for a walk in the cosmos, they want to colonize, expand their power. But the critters happen to have that much-needed fuel. Therefore, in a sense, it is convenient for these civilizations to have that type of invaders, they just have to find a way to defeat them since the damned refuse to lend them their wonderful ships. What so selfish subjects, they seem human!
3. But, but, but, why do the bugs attack them? What they want with such a beautiful planet and with such educated people? Well, because they are the bad guys, they are rats and misers who don't want to buy meat in the supermarket like any good neighbor. No sir, it happens that human flesh is found to taste so rich ... Yum, yum. Their little bugs love it!
4. Bul+++t. Do you know why the bugs attack the planet and they don't plan on inviting humans to any birthdays, ever? Because the very miserable have their queens prisoners, and they also produce a political problem of internal wars for succession, an inflation that I don't even tell you, in short, such that it costs them more and more convince their own critters that the bad guys are actually still the same old ones.

 

[Flaviosky]

To get to those other planets your ships need fuel

But fuel isn't really realistic in a spaceship context. Fuel needs to be carried, it isn't efficient. That's what engines or drives (antimatter, fusion, gravity, whatever) are there for.

Furthermore, this creates a financing problem. That is to say, that trip could be possible, but other civilizations are opposed

This seems a very good solution. Also, the conflicts may render the deffenses uneffective (every nation goes their own way insted of joining forces)

How do bugs get to the planet?

I was thinking about the creatures coming from deep inside the planet, first created by this rogue soldier with super-human abilities (he's the prime specimen of this human experiments) and then using the same chemicals and radiation some nations used in their defense to accelerate and strengthen the development of these beasts.

it happens that human flesh is found to taste so rich ... Yum, yum. Their little bugs love it!

This may be a quite sordid addition. Although the beasts (or bugs) are just tools used by this renegade to fulfill his/her vengeance against the civilization that made human experiments. Maybe, I don't know, failed test subjects were liquidified and used as food in the rest of the experiments, so this "human-eating" bugs would be a cruel irony from the villain.

Because the very miserable have their queens prisoners

Wow, further into the rabbit hole, hahaha. The villain may also have key authorities infected with some sort of disease and return them in a way to send a message. He/she may want his/her vengeance to be slow and withering.

Thanks @DLCroix !

 

[Oochillyo]

hey Flaviosky

how are you

I am trying to understand your Sci Fi story ideas and what may work

I wanted to start with the Time Travel part since I was just re watching Goodnight Sweatheart after many years I love that show

Perhaps the people dont use Time Travel again for reasons such as they are simply waiting for the people who they think went back in time to return but they havnt and nothing has changed in the present , 2 lets say its a time travel worm hole to make it simple (ps I am combining concepts just for this story its not what we agree on Scientifically) say you have the time travel worm hole , you can go through it but maybe it has a limit time till it shuts and anyone left in the past is trapped there like In The Sarah Jane Adventures, so the present people may be worried about getting lost or trapped in time, 2.5 what about fear of causing paradoxes.

I am gonna put some links so you get some ideas for the mix of things I am talking about

Goodnight Sweetheart (TV series) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Lost in Time (The Sarah Jane Adventures) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I'll keep thinking about your story and hopefully find ways to help , Good Luck with it though and all the suggestions I hope you can find solutions

Take care hugs

Regards - Declan Sargent

 

[Oochillyo]

hey Flaviosky

As I said I am still trying to work out ideas to help you with your Sci Fi Story ,

Unless I have got this wrong and 1 the Cataclysm is like the big event after many smaller fights and struggles 2 the rogue guy didn't physically create the bugs but just teamed up with them it sounds like there is a Bootstrap Paradox at play

I.e. The bugs are attacking (the Cataclysm) over and over again for some reason so some Scientists send people back in time to try and stop the event however one of the guys that went survived and at some point created these bugs which in the future create the Cataclysm event over and over again for some reason so some Scientists send people back in time to try and stop the event.

You see whats going on it , its like a loop

what is the bootstrap paradox - Google Search

maybe this is why the people dont risk time travel again they already have this problem/paradox and they dont wanna create any more

Its not a crack at your story maybe this is an accident which I have noticed or maybe you wanna use it in the story its all up to you but I just wanted to point it out

ps even if the guy is just leading the bugs and didn't make them it could still be a Bootstrape Paradox as he ends up telling them the knowledge he has of the present about them and their war plans therefore they know their future and this leads to the future where they are using these plans and so the guy has to travel back in time in order for him to tell them about these plans even if he doesn't realize this in the present creating copies of himself who are fixed on this path like in Back To The Future where Marty McFly accidentally ends up creating a clone of himself who is like a couple mins behind him/his own time line or path as such he has to avoid meeting his clone or it may break reality.

These ideas are common in Doctor Who, changing past events can affect the Future 'fixed points in time' what could happen if that occurs or if people know future details, duplicate personal timelines ect and the Butterfly Effect

These may be things to consider in your Sci Fi story or not if you dont wanna jumble lots of timelines ect on top of each other

Regards - Declan Sargent

 

[alexvss]

3) I can't find a good reason on why the time-travel wouldn't be done again. Any form of scarcity feels weird in a sci-fi setting.

Time travel wouldn't be feasable because of the very word you used: scarcity.

You said that a cataclysm destroyed a planet, so its economy would be frail, to say the least. Maybe time-travel needed an expensive and complicated logistic, and they lacked the resources to do do it often.

I don't know if you were thinking about the Economics term, but scarcity, economically speaking, has been thoroughly explored in science-fiction, especially hard science-fiction. Think about Dune and the scarcity of the spice, or the post-scarcity civilization of Iain Banks' Culture Series (written to defend Socialism).

 

[WSDuffy]

There are a lot of good ideas here, but I'll add mine.

1) In a hard sci-fi sense, I'd go with the "space is big and light speed travel is impossible" body. Without light speed travel, making it to a new home is a many (many) generations long trip to an uncertain destination. If there is any chance on surviving on one's homeworld, it is they better option. This may effect your time travel concept if FTL concepts are an element of your time travel, but I don't think that's necessary.

2) I would make this a plot thing rather than a tech thing. The MC thinks that they ended up on the trip by accident and with the nanobot-driven abilities because of poor equipment, but in their presence and their newfound abilities were someone's intent. That also provides a plot hook to use later, and may help explain why lack of preparation leads to sudden super powers instead of death.

3) I still think that scarcity makes a lot of sense, but you can also go with branching worlds/MCU approach to time travel. Going back doesn't fix your world, but creates an alternative timeline for humanity in which it survives, but without its saviors getting to benefit. In this structure, people could send hundreds of teams back in time, but each would still be in isolation from the other. Alternately, Time travel to a given era may only be possible at very precise times to allow for geosynchronicity. After all, you go back in time six months but don't drastically move your location, you end up in the vacuum of space because Earth moved. Even if you could move backwards in time, the need for the planet to be in the exact same location as it was at the target moment would give precious few opportunities, particularly given Earth's irregular tilt and orbit. This explanation also conveniently helps explain the mistimed jump (the math was wrong, and the system routed the party to a time when Earth was at the appropriate location to avoid killing everyone, but not without consequences for the MC)

 

[Flaviosky]

but in their presence and their newfound abilities were someone's intent

I was thinking the same. The villain may be in the shadows for great part of the story to then later discover that the villain is the MC from another timeline. It was not the first time time travel was made and the MC (villain) got there the same way it did now, but he was captured and went through experiments to enhance him since he survived time travel without proper equipment, and now the villain lured another version of himself back to drain his life and reach another level in human evolution.

space is big and light speed travel is impossible

This actually solves the problem!

Time travel to a given era may only be possible at very precise times to allow for geosynchronicity

This makes A LOT of sense, thanks!

 

[DLCroix]

but in their presence and their newfound abilities were someone's intent

Remarkable observation. I must say, had not occurred to me. Still, keep in mind that you are doing more space opera than hard science fiction. That means you don't have to explain everything. It is also dangerous if what you explain is not correct: in general, you expose yourself to having tomatoes rained on you in a comic con. This is the reason why hard sf, at least that's how I see it, requires very specific knowledge; not for nothing those who write hard know a lot about science. On the other hand, the space opera allows you to be more succinct, go more to the adventurous or psychological aspect, if you do a space opera more with the orientation of the New Wave, more focused on the person, on their doubts and conflicts.
A simple example: Doomsday Book, by Connie Willis. Also about time travel, to the era of the Black Death, specifically, it does not mention this geosynchronicity at all.

 

[Flaviosky]

Still, keep in mind that you are doing more space opera than hard science fiction

Thanks a lot for the observation. In that case, I feel I may be dwelling into the realms of space opera instead. I want a minimum scientific accuracy, but technology will serve plot instead of being a key part of worldbuilding.

I've seen great pieces of sci-fi worldbuilding and description in the Critiques forums lately, so there's some writing fruit-picking right on the spot.

 

[Fiberglass Cyborg]

The scenario feels like it would work much better in a universe without faster-than-light travel. In which case, it really would be impractical to ship the whole population off world* or even to get much help from other planets. They're just an isolated colony world that has been on the verge of failure for centuries, so the "scarcity" emerges naturally.

At this point, the only puzzle is why the one-off time-travel mission would land the protagonist on Earth! I'd be more tempted to send them back within the history of their own world, to a time when they had more technological rescources but less understanding of the impending Beast problem.

*Mind you, even with FTL, moving that many people would not be logistically easy. In one of Charles Stross's books, an entire world are stuck waiting for the inevitable destruction of their planet by relativistic missiles in a couple of years time. The availble FTL fleets can shift tens of thousands of refugees in that timescale, but there are /billions/ on the planet.

 

[paranoid marvin]

I think one of the hardest things to do well in any type of fiction is allow for time travel. As soon as you do ypu open up a crazy amount of paradoxes and unanswered questions. You can always go the Star Trek/Doctor Who line of 'we simply don't care, it makes for a fun story' , but anyone who wants to make their story vaguely realistic and plausible is going to have a hard time of it.

 

[Flaviosky]

They're just an isolated colony world that has been on the verge of failure for centuries

Well, this serves to build a pretty much dystopian setup. The thing to resolve would be: If it is a colony, then how did they got there in the first place without FTL travel?

I'd be more tempted to send them back within the history of their own world

Yeah, and incorporating the geosynchronicity, it makes much better sense. I just want the MC to be a relatable average-guy exposed to this situation and set the character growth from there.

I think one of the hardest things to do well in any type of fiction is allow for time travel.

I agree, and opening endless timlines or multiverses doesn't seem very attractive. I find those stories to end up quickly tangling up on themselves in this realm of "everything is possible" if not done properly, and I'm clearly not the one to make such an attempt

 

[DLCroix]

Well, this serves to build a pretty much dystopian setup. The thing to resolve would be: If it is a colony, then how did they got there in the first place without FTL travel?

Well, in my saga I don't even mention this FTL thing. You don't really need to either, as you have the right to lay the foundations for the current stage of things that the reader will find in the best way you see fit. Because so what if all of your settlers are blue? You said it and that's it; you do not need to explain pigmentation issues or complicate yourself; the reader will see if he accommodates him or not. But, I think, the story you tell is what still matters most.