11.02: The Walking Dead - Acheron: Part 2

ctg

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The group discovers a member did not make it to safety inside the subway car. Surrounded by walkers, going back out into the tunnel to search is a guaranteed death wish. All eyes are on Negan as the rule of survival shifts. It is no longer No Man Left Behind. The motto now is We Keep Going. With very little ammo and energy remaining, the group must ready themselves as the walkers have found a way inside the subway train. Meanwhile, Daryl is in his own intense hellish situation trying to find Dog and finding more than he expected; and Yumiko challenges the process at the Commonwealth outpost, which threatens her future and that of Eugene, Ezekiel, and Princess.

The longest episode synopsis, ever. I had to go to IMDB to check it was for real.
 

ctg

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First of all, I thought about Maggie's situation. Falling backwards is a possibility and it would be fatal as there are so many zombies around and getting up from underneath a group is something that we haven't seen.

Kirkman wrote and Tony Moore drew plenty of scenes, where you could see one getting torn in bits under a swarm. We have had equal share, with most notable mention on Shane tapping Otis on a leg in order to save himself. It's just a bad place to be on the ground when there is a horde and possibly lurkers around.

Falling on your feet is a much better and survivable position, but you have to go aggressive straight on after. You need to burn on that adrenaline high as long as it lasts and then flee at first opportunity, because when the high is done, you're done. It's the energy exhaustion.

Negan gets it as he's an adrenaline junkie, but he hates to admit it. But it's clearer to see it in the comics from the way he's drawn. Maggie is a different beast, but she's not a junkie. Glenn would have survived the fall, just because he was a junkie and he understood the game better than most, but Maggie is not him.

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Father Gabriel is probably one of the characters that has got the most progression over the years. If you remember back in the days, when Rick found him literally shaking in his church, unable to save himself to today's version of a Zombie Slayer, he has gone down the road more than anyone else and the Old World doesn't bother him no more.

It is as if he understands the realities better than most, because he has seen the Evil and battled for the Good. Sometimes slipping on the dark side, but padre has held himself nicely over the twelve years that has been Hell on Earth.

Hell that keeps still keeps unravelling as we go down the rabbit hole, never seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. I doubt that there is anything other than Dead at the end.

Twelve years and they are in the same position as they were when they abandoned the Prison. And this time they didn't choose to leave.

"Let's keep going forward," is the last thing you'd expect to hear from a preacher that was scared of even his own shadow. But he clearly gets the game. It's not like he doesn't want to say a prayer, but he has to trust that everyone understands the business in hand. Veiling and grieving cannot be part of it, when things are bad.

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Bones. That's what Dog was smelling. But the scene also proved that Daryl wasn't saving Maggie from under the pile either. I loved that the DC Underground kept showing the hubris, which went around when the Capital fell down. Best example being the suitcase full of cash.

What the hell are you going to buy at the end of the world as we know it? What is the value of paper or plastic when the system falls? Nothing is the answer to both questions and believing that you meet the people that'll accept them is utter foolishness. It ain't gonna happen.

Still some people are like maybe...

Daryl was in much better position with his bow and arrows, and a hungover.

Back then he didn't even have Dog. Nobody but his brother is giving trouble. I like that both of them are the source of his woes but in the long term, maybe he should invest some time to get a proper leash?!

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Lawyer, another profession that might come handy in the post-apocalypse. Not just that they are trained negotiators, but many of them are analytical and some of them understand the system through the years of practice. Most of all, they understand humans and humans are probably better than psychologists.

If they find a structure that still leans on the Old World systems, they can find a way to manipulate it to their advantage. And the thing is we have seen so often in Fear and in the TWD that people gravitate towards the old structure instead of going all tribal.

The Whisperers were a tribal and they did their business super efficiently, where as our examples are struggling. Yukio however turned out to be a hero. He saw that Dr Evil was going to break down, again and instead of accepting it, she took the charge and demanded to see the Authorities.

I loved her giving them the potatoes as potatoes, but Mercer pulling the coffee tactic was the cherry on the cake.

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Pistol whipping Maggie. She did not get bitten. Not scratched. A bit bruised, but helluva pissed. How did she survive the swarm, we never know.

Negan is right. He did what he needed to be done and he played by the rules. Same rules that apply to all of them. Especially for Maggie telling brother to abandon his own. The bad man wanted to save him, but the boss lady said no, because "they have no ammo to clear the Dead."

So batteries, no ammo resupplies, no food. Nothing but suffering so that the bosslady can keep her hatred and not the best interest of the group. How did she survive the swarm?

Her decision might have effed them all.

The story she pulled explains the change in her. Maggie has turned stone cold. She has lost hope and it is straws that she's holding. Straws and hatred towards Negan. All her followers can go to hell as long as her and Hershel can survive.

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"Where's the ammo bag?" was the first thing Daryl asked. After all the trouble if they have nothing to show, he should get that they are losing the game. And the opponent they're facing is the most freakish adversary in TWD history, the Reapers.

But he did use what he was given to save the group again. It was a beautiful fight scene, and after the grenade went off it was kind of clear that they could have gone to fetch the bag. Thing is, there could only be a finite number of Dead in that tunnel. And some with quick legs might have snatched the bag in no time.

Even if they had set themselves up for a major fight would have been much better than letting the boy commit an ultimate selfish act. If they had saved the boy Maggie could have been able to stand on the moral high ground.

--

A question is Eugene going to be happy now?
 

ctg

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The Walking Dead star Lauren Cohan wanted to give (some) fans the epic catharsis they've been waiting for, by having Maggie finally kill Negan. The beef between Negan (Jeffrey Dean Moran) and Maggie (Cohan) goes all the way back to The Walking Dead season 7's now-iconic premiere, in which Negan brutally bashed in the head of Maggie's husband Glenn. With The Walking Dead season 11 being the final season of the series, it seems like all old scores need to be settled sooner before later - if they are to be settled at all. However, Negan has still managed to survive - despite Maggie repeatedly having the chance to execute him.

In "Acheron Part II" Maggie, Negan, and the group from Alexandria and Maggie's camp are trying to move through some underground tunnels that are swarmed with zombies. When Maggie was hanging over a drop with walkers waiting below, Negan left her to fall. Maggie escaped and made it back to the group - and for a tense moment, it seemed as though Negan's latest double-cross would be his last. But ultimately it's not Maggie who shows restraint - it's Negan who reminds us what that wily logic and silver tongue once made him the ruler of the Saviors.

"You should just hate him for this moment when he leaves Maggie to die." Cohan explains to EW. "And then when he says, 'She just said she was going to kill me. What would you do?' And it's like, everybody in this world who is still alive is pretty wily. You know what I mean? You have to just sort of tiptoe through just getting yourself alive for a little bit longer. You have to just keep yourself alive. You have to adjust. You have to just keep adjusting. And at every juncture, Negan has just done what he thinks is going to work for that much longer.
"I just wanted to kill him. I wanted to kill him. I wanted Maggie to just shoot him," Cohan says in no uncertain terms. "The fact that I want that and she wants that, then she doesn't do it — that's why I'm like, okay, she's keeping this this hope of overcoming this animal anger. There's a tiny little thread of like, "I got to keep that alive. I got to keep this respect for life alive." Jeff is so good too, because, when I watch the episode and I'm like, "S---, I could see why Negan's so scared of her, that this can happen."
 

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I've said it before Maggie isn't the right person to lead our group. Aaron or Yokimo are more suited for the role, they should have at least tried to rescue Gage, bull not enough ammo, they've survived worse Maggie's miraculous escape proves that.
Not sure Eugene, Ezekiel, Yokimo and our new friend Princess will get back to Alexandria. Interesting how they're processed into the Commonwealth after showing a bit of back bone, shows that the Commonwealth may not just be looking for slaves but people willing to rebuild who aren't afraid to question authority.
Ezekiel and Yokimo should try and negotiate something for the Alexandrians, not give too much away but feel them out about joining.
The reapers aren't going away and are likely the worse threat we've seen.
 

ctg

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Not sure Eugene, Ezekiel, Yokimo and our new friend Princess will get back to Alexandria. Interesting how they're processed into the Commonwealth after showing a bit of back bone, shows that the Commonwealth may not just be looking for slaves but people willing to rebuild who aren't afraid to question authority.

Interesting, but doesn't questioning the authority bring out a bit anarchy? Commonwealth is clearly a system that somewhat relies on Old World laws and regulations. They even cited the Legacy Laws, but Mercer never told that they can go back out. What is it exactly that they're looking for?
 

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I'm wondering if the Commonwealth has been underground gathering resources etc and now decided its time to get out and save who ever is left.
My theory is probably completely wrong, surely if they've got old world technology then they are very much aware who is out there and could have reached out a long time ago saving a lot of lifes.
They likely see skills in our guys that enhances them and will not allow them to leave.

Worried about Alexandria, who is left to defend it if the reapers come calling?
Aaron will defend it with his life but who does he have to rely on who can fight. Gerry, Rosita, Kelly maybe one or two others, I know they have Carol but she can be a liability.
Maybe a better option to move the children to Oceanside.
 

ctg

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I'm wondering if the Commonwealth has been underground gathering resources etc and now decided its time to get out and save who ever is left.
My theory is probably completely wrong, surely if they've got old world technology then they are very much aware who is out there and could have reached out a long time ago saving a lot of lifes.
They likely see skills in our guys that enhances them and will not allow them to leave.

You might be right, but they have been sitting on their asses for a long time to that happen. Mercer said that Commonwealth is a united towns. I don't know but can we talk about towns between DC, New York City?

It is impressive if they managed to do what they could do in the Rickland and it kind of sounds that they were close neighbours. Thing is, if you think that between DC, Philadelphia, NYC and Baltimore there are loads of people. So, I assume that the hordes got massive, and yet they somehow managed to hold against the tide without losing the whole place.

I'm thinking what is it exactly that our guys can bring on the table that they don't already have?

Worried about Alexandria, who is left to defend it if the reapers come calling?
Aaron will defend it with his life but who does he have to rely on who can fight. Gerry, Rosita, Kelly maybe one or two others, I know they have Carol but she can be a liability.
Maybe a better option to move the children to Oceanside.

I agree, they need to see things from a practical perspective than trying to hold on to the straws. Aaron and the ladies can hold off a horde on Oceanside, and possibly escape to the sea. But the way I understand the narrative is that there is no easy way for the Reapers to come calling.
 

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What I want to know is how the hell did the Reapers move from Firefly to The Walking Dead?
Oh, wait a sec. Firefly had Reavers, not Reapers. Never mind.
Is Elijah an ex-Reaper, or does he just share costuming tastes?

Lawyer, another profession that might come handy in the post-apocalypse. Not just that they are trained negotiators, but many of them are analytical and some of them understand the system through the years of practice. Most of all, they understand humans and humans are probably better than psychologists.
I would never have thought that the skills of an attorney would be any more useful than those of a telemarketer in the world of THW. I guess someone needs to remind walkers that they have the right to remain silent.
Not sure Eugene, Ezekiel, Yokimo and our new friend Princess will get back to Alexandria. Interesting how they're processed into the Commonwealth after showing a bit of back bone, shows that the Commonwealth may not just be looking for slaves but people willing to rebuild who aren't afraid to question authority

They likely see skills in our guys that enhances them and will not allow them to leave.

It would be refreshing to see a well-organized and armed group that is more interested in assimilation than annihilation of other survivors. I can't help but think there will be a catch down the road.
"Re-processing" strikes an ominous tone. How well-behaved must new citizens be to avoid it?

It didn't seem that Eugene had revealed any of his exceptional skills to to Commonwealth interrogators. It was great to finally see Stephanie. I had wondered if she might have been re-processed for setting up her rendezvous with Eugene.
 
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Jeffbert

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It might have been e #1, and if somebody already noted this, my apologies. Eugene was showing how little he had changed since his early days, and his friends had to almost threaten him to keep him from divulging their point of origin, Alexandria. His behavior reminded me of the time Negan had him. He would do anything to live, just one more day.
 

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I thought this was a solid episode. Plenty of action. The scenes in the Tunnels reminded me of the Mines of Moria to a certain extent. The action on the train especially Daryl's brought up memories of the Korean movies Snowpiercer and Oldboy.

The Reapers look like a real nasty group and it will be interesting how the story goes. There is definitely a pick up in pace for this series and it is more than welcome.
 

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I thought this was a solid episode. Plenty of action.
Me too! It was very well paced, cutting between the two stories. The only part that seemed odd was when they all stopped and sat down in the dark while Maggie stood and told them her "ghostly tale." Was this a postponed 'Halloween episode'?
Father Gabriel is probably one of the characters that has got the most progression over the years. If you remember back in the days, when Rick found him literally shaking in his church, unable to save himself to today's version of a Zombie Slayer,
When Gabriel began swinging that axe around, I thought, *has Morgan come back?* I think that without Morgan and Michonne, they need someone else to step into that 'Gladiator' role. However, Gabriel doesn't strike me as that person for all the reasons you've given.
Not sure Eugene, Ezekiel, Yokimo and our new friend Princess will get back to Alexandria. Interesting how they're processed into the Commonwealth after showing a bit of back bone, shows that the Commonwealth may not just be looking for slaves but people willing to rebuild who aren't afraid to question authority.

My theory is probably completely wrong, surely if they've got old world technology then they are very much aware who is out there and could have reached out a long time ago saving a lot of lifes.
They likely see skills in our guys that enhances them and will not allow them to leave.

It would be refreshing to see a well-organized and armed group that is more interested in assimilation than annihilation of other survivors.
It is time that we see a group interested in assimilation rather than annihilation because the number one problem this world faces is a lack of people. Small colonies will not survive and would fight among themselves. Read any scientific research on this subject and they will tell you that. Small colonies would spend all their time looking for food and shelter (as our groups have done). They never have sufficient food and safe shelter to afford to have people in occupations other than agriculture and defence. The ex-lawyers and ex-telemarketers would all be agricultural labourer or soldiers, or else they would die.

I don't think that the small groups we see in TWD and FTWD could really survive more than a few more years in this world. So, this all points to the Commonwealth being a very large colony indeed. Why would they want to leave it? We all accept laws and rules we might not agree with to live in safety and get fed. We haven't seen the Commonwealth laws but can they be worse than living with the Saviours or Woodbury? It doesn't appear that these laws come from a dictator, but instead were passed by some government, and seem to be based upon old US law. It sounds very like the Eastern Settlement in Stephen King's The Stand.

Therefore, questioning authority is welcome. That is part of a healthy democracy. Stephanie's occupation might even be to search out likely new candidates and get them to come in. Eugene may be just one of a long list.

I agree though, they could have brought in a lot more people, a lot sooner. Given that colony size is so important to their survival, it is a mistake not to have done so.
 

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I don't think that the small groups we see in TWD and FTWD could really survive more than a few more years in this world. So, this all points to the Commonwealth being a very large colony indeed. Why would they want to leave it? We all accept laws and rules we might not agree with to live in safety and get fed. We haven't seen the Commonwealth laws but can they be worse than living with the Saviours or Woodbury?
If the history of Rick Nation and his successors is any indication, they will survive whatever the Commonwealth throws at them. I do wonder, though, if the Commonwealth will survive them.
In the immortal words of Deputy Grimes (when they were being held in a railroad car), "They don't know who they're f***king with."
 

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