How to write dialogue when English doesn’t exist in your world?

[Abernovo]

So I’m writing a medieval fantasy novel. The problem is, English doesn’t exist in my world and I’m afraid that it will break the immersion if my characters talk to each other in English. Do I have to invent a new language? Please help, I can’t start writing until I figure it out.

I'd agree with pretty much what's already been said. Write it in the language you use -- I'm presuming English, but it may not be.

I've read Chaucer's The Canterbury Tales in (14th C.) Middle English, and attempted to read Beowulf in (8th - 10th C.) Early English, and both are so different from Modern English that they're effectively unintelligible to many modern readers without translation. Just try to avoid any anachronisms.

The other problem with inventing a language is: what if your story was really good, got traction, and ended up translated into another language? The translators would have to deal not only with English to Romanian (for example), but also "Inventish" backtranslated to English and then to Romanian.

If you need a character who comes into the story, but doesn't speak the language of the land well, you can always write it as either broken English, or you can have them say something your MC doesn't catch, and another character translates. Alternatively, misunderstandings can produce the most comical, and tragic, of results. And, there are always hand gestures and pointing, things I've had to rely on in various countries.

Most of all, just write the story first, to get an idea of what you want it to be, and to say. And, best of luck with it all!

 

[Elckerlyc]

Just my input as a reader, I must confess that to me the use of an invented language in a novel tends to be more of a barrier than an attractive feature of the novel. I read to be engrossed in a story and forget the world around me. I do not wish to have to study a made up language before I can begin understand what is being said. I never bothered to try to learn Tolkien's Elvish or Klingon.
Having said that, I can understand and appreciate if a writer feels the need to expand on his/her world-building and to give it that extra bit of color locale. Just don't over do it. I can rationally understand that characters speak an unfamiliar language (and not the English in which it is presented.)

What can put me off though are word-puns that stem from English although the characters aren't supposed to speak English.

 

[paranoid marvin]

Just because you are writing the dialogue in English, doesn't mean that your characters are speaking in English. You can write what the character said and still imply that it was asked in another language. To use Timebender's example of buying the figs, you could add 'he asked in 'fill in the blank language'' to the dialogue tag. You wouldn't want to do that all the time, just now and then to emphasize that they are speaking in other languages.

Like Stephen pointed out, there is often a common tongue or universal trade language in any world and we just translate that as English when we write for an easier reading experience. Every now and then, you can throw in a word, phrase, inscription, etc. that is in some other language of that world, but you don't write in it entirely because your readers wouldn't be able to follow you. Instead of being more immersive, you would actually lose readers.

Tolkien wanted to write the entire Lord of the Rings trilogy in Elvish, but his publisher wouldn't let him do it because no one would be able to read it (though I do wish they'd have let him release an 'Elvish special edition'!).

This needs to be put on a Kickstarter. Hardbacked, on the finest paper and with Tolkien's original illustrations - and with all of the text in Elvish. A limited run of maybe 1000 copies? I wouldn't imagine it would be very cheap, but I'm quite confident that it would be snapped up by many Tolkien afficionados.

 

[Toby Frost]

Just my input as a reader, I must confess that to me the use of an invented language in a novel tends to be more of a barrier than an attractive feature of the novel...

What can put me off though are word-puns that stem from English although the characters aren't supposed to speak English.

I agree. If it makes it harder to read, then it needs serious justification. A particular dislike for me is where a made-up word turns out to mean something fairly clear in English, and it turns out that the mystical concept of Bibble is just "honour".

The language in Dune is clearly stated not to be English (although it partly derives from English) and most of the songs don't rhyme - although some do. This always bothered me. It's less of a thing where the language is completely fantastical, since I tend to assume that the characters are punning on something similar to English.

But isn't this much the same as a historical novel, where a character is fluent in two languages, and English is used for both? It's fairly obvious that a British spy in Nazi Germany isn't going to be speaking English, and surely people who exist in a fantasy setting where there never has been an England won't be either.

(There's an amusing bit in Where Eagles Dare when a British pilot is flying a German plane to rescue the heroes. He turns to the other British characters and says "I'll just tell them that I'm approaching the control tower, chaps". Then he picks up the radio and shouts "I am approachink ze control towah!" in fluent "German".)

 

[Wayne Mack]

I just finished reading a book that purported to have the characters using multiple languages. Often the only difference was that the POV character would think something like, "I switched to the more formal speech of the XXXX," or "I used the common language of the YYYY." There was not any attempt to create these languages and, for me, this worked well and allowed the story to be told in a comprehensible manner.

My only quibble was that the author also chose to introduce some phrases in dragon-speak. Although the author carefully defined each phrase when first introduced, I had forgotten the translations of the phrase by the time they were used later. I ended up just skimming those whenever they popped up. They did not add anything to my overall feel for the novel and may have slightly detracted by pulling my mind out of the story flow whenever I hit one of them.

 

[CupofJoe]

I could see that working if there were words and phrases that just did not translate, or where the translation would be very clumsy.
Using a real world example; "schadenfreude" rolls off the tongue better than "The experience of pleasure, joy, or self-satisfaction that comes from learning of or witnessing the troubles, failures, or humiliation of another."

 

[.matthew.]

"I am approachink ze control towah!"

That line got me good

 

[M. Robert Gibson]

There's an amusing bit in Where Eagles Dare when a British pilot is flying a German plane to rescue the heroes. He turns to the other British characters and says "I'll just tell them that I'm approaching the control tower, chaps". Then he picks up the radio and shouts "I am approachink ze control towah!" in fluent "German".

Reminds of 'Allo, 'Allo.
"
One of the trickier problems with 'Allo 'Allo! was the fact that the main characters were of four different nationalities – French, German, English, and Italian. Lloyd and Croft determined that it would be too much for the audience to follow multiple languages, so they employed a simple dramatic device to overcome the issue: all characters would speak English in a theatrical foreign accent depicting the foreign language. French and German characters could understand each other when speaking, but the English characters could not understand the others without someone "translating" for them and vice versa.

Because of this device, each particular main language for the show required a specific accent and speaking style to be devised. While the French-speaking characters mainly spoke with a French accent, the English-speaking characters mostly employed Bertie Wooster-esque "top-hole, old chap!"-style banter in an upper-class English accent, and German speaking characters mainly spoke in a guttural manner. When Italian characters were added to the series, particularly Captain Alberto Bertorelli, in the fourth series, the cast members assigned to these role spoke in a nasal tone, making use of the letter "a" on the ends of certain words (i.e. "What a mistake-a to make-a!").

One of the more notable aspects of this device was in the speech of Officer Crabtree, introduced in the second series. Because his character was English with a poor grasp of French, the actor, Arthur Bostrom, spoke perfectly in the English style but mangled his words when speaking in the French style. Bostrom therefore altered certain words in his sentences, substituting different vowels and/or consonants, changing them into different or nonsensical words, usually laden with innuendo. An example is the line "I was passing by the door, and I thought I would drop in.", which Bostrom pronounced "I was pissing by the door, and I thought I would drip in". Another example is Crabtree's greeting of "good morning", pronounced good moaning.
"
Quoted from Wikipedia

 

[paranoid marvin]

Reminds of 'Allo, 'Allo.
"
One of the trickier problems with 'Allo 'Allo! was the fact that the main characters were of four different nationalities – French, German, English, and Italian. Lloyd and Croft determined that it would be too much for the audience to follow multiple languages, so they employed a simple dramatic device to overcome the issue: all characters would speak English in a theatrical foreign accent depicting the foreign language. French and German characters could understand each other when speaking, but the English characters could not understand the others without someone "translating" for them and vice versa.

Because of this device, each particular main language for the show required a specific accent and speaking style to be devised. While the French-speaking characters mainly spoke with a French accent, the English-speaking characters mostly employed Bertie Wooster-esque "top-hole, old chap!"-style banter in an upper-class English accent, and German speaking characters mainly spoke in a guttural manner. When Italian characters were added to the series, particularly Captain Alberto Bertorelli, in the fourth series, the cast members assigned to these role spoke in a nasal tone, making use of the letter "a" on the ends of certain words (i.e. "What a mistake-a to make-a!").

One of the more notable aspects of this device was in the speech of Officer Crabtree, introduced in the second series. Because his character was English with a poor grasp of French, the actor, Arthur Bostrom, spoke perfectly in the English style but mangled his words when speaking in the French style. Bostrom therefore altered certain words in his sentences, substituting different vowels and/or consonants, changing them into different or nonsensical words, usually laden with innuendo. An example is the line "I was passing by the door, and I thought I would drop in.", which Bostrom pronounced "I was pissing by the door, and I thought I would drip in". Another example is Crabtree's greeting of "good morning", pronounced good moaning.
"
Quoted from Wikipedia

Allo Allo was a very British comedy programmes and what made it so successful was it's ability to poke fun at all nationalities at the same time. It also did well to deal with a very serious subject; the escape of Allied airmen from occupied countries, where those who helped them were in very real danger of torture and summary execution. Quite how they managed to keep the show going as long as they did with basically the same handful of jokes is probably the most amazing thing.

In order to fully appreciate the series though you have to watch the truly brilliant WWII drama series Secret Army, which this show is quite clearly inspired by.

 

[Thiswriterinme]

I think one of my favorite representations of breaking through a language barrier was in the show Farscape where everyone was injected with Translator Microbes - which allowed you to understand everyone else because it automatically translated what they said into your speech. I'm not sure if they were like nanites or some kind of biological compound, but it was a good tool.

So, there are ways to explain why everyone is able to understand each other, even if they all speak different languages - in a medieval fantasy setting it could be a potion, or a plant, or anything because it is fantasy! It would just be necessary to explain that the reason for consuming or using that item was so different languages could be understood universally. Again, it creates the atmosphere of different languages being spoken without having to come up with ways of incorporating them.

Then, you can have some fun with it, like if two characters speak different native languages, they might have to explain what certain words mean if that same phrase, item, or description doesn't exist in their native tongue. You don't necessarily have to create a made-up word for it - since everything is universally translated - but it periodically and casually reminds the readers that different languages and different cultures are being represented.

 

[M. Robert Gibson]

I think one of my favorite representations of breaking through a language barrier was in the show Farscape where everyone was injected with Translator Microbes

Ah how could we forget - The Babel Fish!

 

[soulsinging]

Special silver embossed [vegan] leather covers, velum like paper, a font that mimicked Papa T's own script, and three different gemstones inset on the cover to reflect the Elvish rings...
And another version without any gems but with gold lettering to reflect a very different ring...

keep your rings, I want one with 7 shining silmarils on it.

 

[hitmouse]

Just wait 'til he tries to read Feersum Endjinn by Iain M. Banks

Feersum Endjinn actually starts to make sense after a few pages.

 

[Saiyali]

I like this subject. In my own stories everyone speaks English, but people's names are meant to be in whatever made up language they speak, that we never really see. In the world it's just called 'Talk' but there are differences from one place to another, which I tend to denote by kind of accenting the speech a bit. In some parts, creatures (human and non-) communicate telepathically. That helps!

Just wait 'til he tries to read Feersum Endjinn by Iain M. Banks

I loved the communications code that a lot of Excession is written in...

(GCU Grey Area signal sequence file #n428857/119)
.
[swept-to-tightbeam, M16.4, received@n4.28.857.3644]
xGSV Honest Mistake
oGCU Grey Area
Take a look at this:
oo
(Signal sequence #n428855/1446, relay
oo
1) [skein broadcast, Mclear, received @ n4.28.855.0065+]:
*!c11505*
oo
2) [swept beam Ml, received @ n4.28.855.0066-]:
SDA.
C2314992+52
xFATC @ n4.28.855.
oo
3) [swept beam, M2, relay, received@ n4.28.855.0079-]:
xGCU Fate Amenable To Change.
oGSV Ethics Gradient
& as requested:
Significant developmental anomaly.
C4629984+523
(@n28.855.0065.43392).
oo
4) [tight beam, M16, relay, received @ n4.28.855.0085]:
xGCU Fate Amenable To Change,
oGSV Ethics Gradient
& only as required:
Developmental anomaly provisionally rated EqT, potentially jeopardising, found here C9259969+5331.
My Status: L5 secure, moving to L6^.
Instigating all other Extreme precautions.
oo
5) [broadcast Mclear, received @ n4.28. 855.01. ]:
*xGCU Fate Amenable To Change,
oGSV Ethics Gradient
& *broadcast*:
Ref. 3 previous compacs & precursor broadcast.
Panic over.
I misinterpreted.
It's a Scapsile Vault Craft.
Ho hum.
Sorry.
Full Internal Report to follow immediately in High Embarrassment Factor code.
BSTS. H&H. BTB.
oo
(End Signal Sequence.)
oo
xGCU Grey Area
oGSV Honest Mistake
Yes. So?
oo
There is more. The ship lied.

...etc

To create a language from scratch, to use it consistently in your novel and at the same time write an interesting story is probably the task of half a lifetime. JRR Tolkien managed it, but for most of us mere mortals it's an (almost) impossible task.

Wasn't that in fact the origin of the stories? He basically made up languages as a hobby, and with the languages came a mythology, then came In a hole in the ground there lived a Hobbit .. and we know the rest!

... writing the entire dialogue in a different language.

I think Codex Seraphinianus is one of the most incredible things I've ever seen.

 

[Tawariell]

How did other writers deal with it? Did English exist in the Lord of the Rings?

It's been a long time since I read it, but I think there was a "common tongue", that got presented as English by the narrator, but words from other languages would appear, either with explanation or not. An elf might have to explain an elvish word to a hobbit or some such.

I agree with Stephen; you might want to look at J.R.R. Tolkien his work, for he himself was a linguist (quite an admirable one I must say). Not only did he invent languages, but also managed to use something that sounded like "old English" in Lord of the Rings, but in reality, wasn't. He simply did this by changing the structure of his sentences, making it feel like their dialogues were spoken in "old-English". I never read A Song of Ice and Fire, but I heard George R. R. Martin managed to do the same.

 

[Tawariell]

As someone who is currently working on a conlang, I can vouch for that!! It is super hard to create language that feels 'real.' Coming up with what will act as the 'root words' for my language was easy enough, but I'm at the stage where I actually have to start assigning meanings, word morphology, grammar, conjugations, etc. and that part is an absolute nightmare!

Oh, I hear ya! I'm doing the same right now. I am studying in Thailand at the moment, so I'm being introduced to many other languages out here (Thai being one of them), and it has given me so much inspiration! It really does help to learn a language that makes absolutely no sense to the rest of the world. For example, in Thai they use a word that sounds phonetically the exact same when they use a rising tone, falling tone, high tone, or low tone, but with each tone conveys a different meaning(?!). I could say the word "mai" in four different tones, and say four completely different words ("no" "burn" "new" "silk"). I also learned that in Chinese they actually use words for certain personality types that we, in English, don't even have! I guess all these little things could help us in creating our own and authentic little language.

Maybe you could try to get some inspiration from the grammatical structures of some of the Southeast Asian languages. They use fairly easy structures, and I find them fun to play around with. For one of my own languages, I'm using Thai as my inspiration.

In Thai for example,

"mai" means "no"​

"chai" means "yes"​

​

To say,​

"It is not" they just combine "no" and "yes"​

"mai-chai"​

​

They also seem to do the opposite of English when it comes to placing their adjectives, for example;​

"sticky rice" in Thai would be "rice sticky"​

"minced pork" would be "pork minced"​

and, "hot coffee" would be "coffee hot"​

​

Just wanted to share my experience. Hopefully, this interests you and could help you in building your language. If you want to know more about some of the differences between Thai and English, feel free to ask. My current degree has me doing lots of research about it

 

[Laura R Hepworth]

Oh, I hear ya! I'm doing the same right now. I am studying in Thailand at the moment, so I'm being introduced to many other languages out here (Thai being one of them), and it has given me so much inspiration! It really does help to learn a language that makes absolutely no sense to the rest of the world. For example, in Thai they use a word that sounds phonetically the exact same when they use a rising tone, falling tone, high tone, or low tone, but with each tone conveys a different meaning(?!). I could say the word "mai" in four different tones, and say four completely different words ("no" "burn" "new" "silk"). I also learned that in Chinese they actually use words for certain personality types that we, in English, don't even have! I guess all these little things could help us in creating our own and authentic little language.

Maybe you could try to get some inspiration from the grammatical structures of some of the Southeast Asian languages. They use fairly easy structures, and I find them fun to play around with. For one of my own languages, I'm using Thai as my inspiration.

In Thai for example,

"mai" means "no"​

"chai" means "yes"​

​

To say,​

"It is not" they just combine "no" and "yes"​

"mai-chai"​

​

They also seem to do the opposite of English when it comes to placing their adjectives, for example;​

"sticky rice" in Thai would be "rice sticky"​

"minced pork" would be "pork minced"​

and, "hot coffee" would be "coffee hot"​

​

Just wanted to share my experience. Hopefully, this interests you and could help you in building your language. If you want to know more about some of the differences between Thai and English, feel free to ask. My current degree has me doing lots of research about it

Thanks! While I've tried to make sure my root words aren't connected to any real language, for the rest of it I was planning on taking inspiration from the Gaelic languages (which definitely do not make sense to most of the world ).

 

[Abernovo]

I was planning on taking inspiration from the Gaelic languages (which definitely do not make sense to most of the world

Gabh mo leisgeul??

Tha sinn a' bruidhinn mòran chànanan an seo.

 

[Laura R Hepworth]

Gabh mo leisgeul??

Tha sinn a' bruidhinn mòran chànanan an seo.

We may yes, but the Gaelics are a definite head scratcher for a lot of people . Especially if they are trying to read it .