Former Israeli Space Security Adviser Says Outer Space Not What It Seems

Dave

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But I answered the question that @hitmouse asked, "why would one assume that the more robust principles of physics and astrophysics and chemistry might not apply locally or generally?" The fact that they were variable to begin with, and then very quickly (in relation to the age of the universe) became fixed, I have no dispute with at all. The possibility that they might suddenly change again now is one that would concern me greatly. Yes, some values probably wouldn't make a great difference to anything. And, yes it is great to speculate on these things.
 

Dave

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I've been thinking on this further overnight, and on the OP questions, because there is a likely an SF story in this idea.

So, what we are considering is that a very highly technological race of aliens from another dimension has the advanced technology able to change and vary those physical constants, thereby altering the properties of space and matter, allowing them to travel into our universe and to survive here. I have questions that I cannot answer:
1. Would we be able to observe them or their spacecraft? They would still have the properties consistent with their own universe, and so wouldn't they pass through our universe unseen by us, as if in the ether? Isn't that the whole point of this method of travel? So, it could not explain sightings of alien greys or flying saucers because they seem quite substantial to me.
2. By altering our universe as they pass through, wouldn't they destroy the space and matter as they went, leaving a trail of destruction in their wake that we would observe? It is a little like that episode of Star Trek: TNG - Force of Nature where sustained Warp drive is found to be destroying the fabric of space. When we observed space we'd see the equivalent of aircraft chemtrails.
 

Serendipity

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I've been thinking on this further overnight, and on the OP questions, because there is a likely an SF story in this idea.

So, what we are considering is that a very highly technological race of aliens from another dimension has the advanced technology able to change and vary those physical constants, thereby altering the properties of space and matter, allowing them to travel into our universe and to survive here. I have questions that I cannot answer:
1. Would we be able to observe them or their spacecraft? They would still have the properties consistent with their own universe, and so wouldn't they pass through our universe unseen by us, as if in the ether? Isn't that the whole point of this method of travel? So, it could not explain sightings of alien greys or flying saucers because they seem quite substantial to me.
2. By altering our universe as they pass through, wouldn't they destroy the space and matter as they went, leaving a trail of destruction in their wake that we would observe? It is a little like that episode of Star Trek: TNG - Force of Nature where sustained Warp drive is found to be destroying the fabric of space. When we observed space we'd see the equivalent of aircraft chemtrails.
Have you been reading Sarah Hovarka's story - Of Buggies and Behemoths in Etaerio SF?
 

Venusian Broon

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I've been thinking on this further overnight, and on the OP questions, because there is a likely an SF story in this idea.

So, what we are considering is that a very highly technological race of aliens from another dimension has the advanced technology able to change and vary those physical constants, thereby altering the properties of space and matter, allowing them to travel into our universe and to survive here. I have questions that I cannot answer:
1. Would we be able to observe them or their spacecraft? They would still have the properties consistent with their own universe, and so wouldn't they pass through our universe unseen by us, as if in the ether? Isn't that the whole point of this method of travel? So, it could not explain sightings of alien greys or flying saucers because they seem quite substantial to me.
2. By altering our universe as they pass through, wouldn't they destroy the space and matter as they went, leaving a trail of destruction in their wake that we would observe? It is a little like that episode of Star Trek: TNG - Force of Nature where sustained Warp drive is found to be destroying the fabric of space. When we observed space we'd see the equivalent of aircraft chemtrails.
Alastair Reynolds in Chasm City has aliens that, from memory, manipulate the Higgs field and do quite weird things. They are not from another "dimension" though, just using this as tech.

Dimension is a bad word here from what you are talking about, I think you mean "other universe" in your musings. This is because one could easily imagine that a universe like ours but has four or more 'open' dimensions that would quite happily exist with our basic three dimensional part of it, as actually there have been a number of theories that use multiple dimensions that make up our universe. In some versions of M-theory they posit that our 3-D universe is interaction of two higher dimensional branes, and other theories speculate that gravity is special and 'weaker' than the other forces because it can leak into other dimensions that we can't currently observe.

Thus why not have other matter that can freely use all four (or more!), instead of being constrained to the three we use? In this case this more general matter, which is happy to live in our universe everywhere could quite easily 'hide' from us as there would be an infinite amount of space for this 4D+ matter (and aliens made from such matter) to live in, only occasionally popping into existence to us 'flatlanders'. A four dimensional object - even one that was just dumb matter - would behave amazingly to us 3-D'ers. It could pop in and out of existence, appearing substantial one minute, then alter shape in a snap in ways that we would deem impossible.

Could it also be that the constants and laws of nature are a result of our 3-D universe interacting with this bigger multi-dimensional space? And that physics in the higher dimensions could make it possible to alter our more limited 3-D physics by altering something close to our feeble plane?

Maybe such events do leave a mark? (I'm looking at you Cosmic Microwave Background cold spot.)

You don't necessarily need to invoke destruction of space and matter in these models either, so spotting such intrusions would be difficult.

Anyway pure speculation. Keeping it SF, I do remember Greg Bear writing a couple of nice stories about 4D aliens.
 

Serendipity

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No, can you tell more? You could put inside spoiler quotes.
It does an interesting take on humans not being able to able perceive all the universe and why.

Alastair Reynolds in Chasm City has aliens that, from memory, manipulate the Higgs field and do quite weird things. They are not from another "dimension" though, just using this as tech.

Dimension is a bad word here from what you are talking about, I think you mean "other universe" in your musings. This is because one could easily imagine that a universe like ours but has four or more 'open' dimensions that would quite happily exist with our basic three dimensional part of it, as actually there have been a number of theories that use multiple dimensions that make up our universe. In some versions of M-theory they posit that our 3-D universe is interaction of two higher dimensional branes, and other theories speculate that gravity is special and 'weaker' than the other forces because it can leak into other dimensions that we can't currently observe.

Thus why not have other matter that can freely use all four (or more!), instead of being constrained to the three we use? In this case this more general matter, which is happy to live in our universe everywhere could quite easily 'hide' from us as there would be an infinite amount of space for this 4D+ matter (and aliens made from such matter) to live in, only occasionally popping into existence to us 'flatlanders'. A four dimensional object - even one that was just dumb matter - would behave amazingly to us 3-D'ers. It could pop in and out of existence, appearing substantial one minute, then alter shape in a snap in ways that we would deem impossible.

Could it also be that the constants and laws of nature are a result of our 3-D universe interacting with this bigger multi-dimensional space? And that physics in the higher dimensions could make it possible to alter our more limited 3-D physics by altering something close to our feeble plane?

Maybe such events do leave a mark? (I'm looking at you Cosmic Microwave Background cold spot.)

You don't necessarily need to invoke destruction of space and matter in these models either, so spotting such intrusions would be difficult.

Anyway pure speculation. Keeping it SF, I do remember Greg Bear writing a couple of nice stories about 4D aliens.

A long long time ago I did an extensive blog on what properties you could expect to see demonstrated when 4-D space was available. If I remember correctly Greg Bear's 4-d story was entitled Tangents for which he won a Hugo. However, when I started playing around 4-D just to see what could be done with it, I ended up being rather put out. Why? Because there are a whole host of effects you would expect from 4-D that don't seem to appear anywhere in the 4-D stories I could lay my paws on. In fact 'put out' is understating my reaction by several parsecs. This is a science fiction area ripe for writing new stuff.

Postscript - bit surprised Reynolds uses a Higgs field as that is basically a minimised property.
 

narrativus

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Actually, I posted this because I wondered how the official UFO propaganda is really science fiction and therefore, no one but a sci-fi fan could pick it apart for its inaccuracies. I mean a "Galactic Federation" is the Star Trek's United Federation of Planets. But the space and starships comment. I mean, in our stock of sci-fi stories, where have we heard this before? Has anyone? Because these guys are creating a UFO narrative based on our sci-fi playbook.
 

hitmouse

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I guess that I don't have too much faith in science and what we 'know' about how the universe operates. If you'd had faith in the science of the 1600s or 1800s - which was based on what was known data - then things would have been very different. Who is to say that what we know is true now won't be disproved or superceded by the next breakthrough? How has our understanding been changed by the discovery of dark energy and matter (of which we know very little), and how might a better understanding of these phenomenon help shape our understanding of other things?

I just think that there is too much that is unknown, and perhaps even beyond our comprehension, to be able to take anything at more than speculative value.
Science today is qualitatively and quantitatively different from the 19th century and earlier. Not just in terms of experimental technology, computing, etc, but in terms of transparency and rigour: the unknowns and uncertainties are out there for debate and discussion. There is also the minor detail of experimental evidence for relativity, quantum theory etc, and the fact that applied science has allowed us to stick robots on Mars, send probes through the solar system, build electron microscopes, CERN, fly jet planes around the world, look for pics of Pamela Anderson on Google Images, etc.
 

paranoid marvin

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Science today is qualitatively and quantitatively different from the 19th century and earlier. Not just in terms of experimental technology, computing, etc, but in terms of transparency and rigour: the unknowns and uncertainties are out there for debate and discussion. There is also the minor detail of experimental evidence for relativity, quantum theory etc, and the fact that applied science has allowed us to stick robots on Mars, send probes through the solar system, build electron microscopes, CERN, fly jet planes around the world, look for pics of Pamela Anderson on Google Images, etc.


I agree with what you are saying , but wouldn't the scientists and astronomers of the 19th century have been saying something similar about those of ancient Egypt or Greece (for example) ? How confident are we that in another 200 years the same won't be said of science at the start of the 21st century?
 

Danny McG

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*Snorts at the concept of stars*

Look, everybody knows there are no stars, those lights in the sky are the breathing holes in our box
 

paranoid marvin

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The OP is kind of correct. Space isn't what it appears to be. It's (likely) not vast areas of empty space with nothing in them, it's full of dark matter, dark energy, black holes and probably other stuff of which we are not yet aware. And alien spaceships are also not what they seem, because they are (likely) natural/manmade objects or tricks of the light/imagination and not visitors from other planets.
 

narrativus

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I think they're trying to change the UFO narrative. I mean, it's an intriguing topic because some believe that starships are interdimensional and not physical at all. As if time and space intersect with the mind at some level like in Forbidden Planet.

Either UFOs are real and Haisam is breaking ranks or he's still propping up the UFO legend by starting a new chapter. Straight out of X-Files, we have a deathbed confession that looks like a reveal but it really creates more questions than answers. Another wild goose chase for an otherwise flailing UFO narrative that must evolve or give way to exposing military espionage.

But watch for it: After he said this, notice how the UFO community will change their narrative about who the aliens are and where they come from. I'm interested in the topic and can say that many have already talked about this for years and now the powers-that-be are going with it. It's becoming canon. They need it to keep everyone interested.

It's like Reality TV meets science fiction.
 

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