10.22: The Walking Dead- Here's Negan.

nixie

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Sorry I'm not a patch on @ctg With reviews.

Carol decides to take it upon herself to exile Negan, he imagines talking to the old Negan.

When he went looking for Lucille I feared the worse. You can use the excuse of what happens to the original Lucille for his descent into the evil monster we know and love but we have seen others go through a lot worse and not take that path.

His burning of Lucille was symbolic, shows he wants to leave his past behind him and become someone better. Maybe he can't or maybe Maggie will dispose of him before he is given the chance.

Loved this episode. The woman who gave him Lucille wasn't she a saviour ?
 

ctg

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My heart is going for Old Man Negan. He is trying he's best to be a good guy, even though he's not and it's almost as if knows it. Things that he's doing to keep out of Maggie's way are streatching the relationship.

It's just interesting that Carol, our original bad woman, is still having the relationship with the devil. As if he has accepted all the good and the bad. In Negan's case I wouldn't be betting that his path on the redemption is going to take him to the Pearly Gates. There's just too many sins in his past from him to get a pass.

All in all, it's the ticket to the hot place that is waiting for him. And just like in a similar kind of hut in the Maine, Negan met his adversary, the evil Negan. Wait, does it mean that this is a serious nod towards Raimi's Evil Dead?

Maybe. It's how I felt about it, when the Ghost of the Winter Past appeared in the Dog's Original Home. Negan called him a clown, even though the Ghost was telling the truth. There is Negan, without Negan, not even in the redemption path.

It also reminds me about biblical story of Christ last temptation. A fitting analogue in my mind taken that this episode was broadcasted yesterday, in the Christ resurrection. In that particular story, the Devil took J to the mountaintop and asked the questions, while He resisted the temptation.

If you think Negan's case, his exile was a fitting solution, so in a similar tone he's watching down in the world, seeing what it is, and how easily he could take the offer, turn back to Evil and go slaughtering what's left of Alexandria.

But he doesn't and the Ghost of Winter Past announced: "You're nothing without her."

I think the Devil meant the woman in her past, not the bat.

I loved the past transition when he picked up the Lucielle. It was perfectly done and it showed that before the apocalypse, Negan was like you and me, a normal person. A desperate person. But not an evil person.

Some could call him a petty criminal. Not a major leaguer he became afterwards. In the Kirkman's world, the Old School Negan is still among the top three villains, with the other two being in my mind The Governor and The Filthy Woman.

It's interesting that he tried to keep the Wife alive, just like I'd have done, during the outbreak. But we all know that nothing is going to last forever. Everything has an end date. Nothing survives forever.

Nothing :cry:

I know personally how hard it is to fight the terminal illness as a carer. Every single day you will fight your damnest to keep up the good spirit. Never giving up on anything. Except all the other things normal persons do, because it's all in the past and the fight against the disease is all you know. And all you do it for is love. Not money or anything material.

Unlike as it is with Carol, we know that in the distant past, the psychotic side was there and he put a guy in the hospital. It explains why after the Fall he was able to flip the switch and do what he does best, kill people.

It's also interesting that they showed Negan cheating his wife, kind of explaining that enormous libido he has in the comics, but not in the small screen.


When Negan fell on his knees after he rescued Lucielle, it was the first moment of redemption I felt coming from him. It was fitting that he burned the bat at the end, marking the fitting farewell for the terrible tool.
 

nixie

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It was Laura
 

Dave

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Did we really need a back-story for Neegan? Am I now meant to feel sorry for him now and think of him as another victim?

I did like the story, but the idea that Maggie should ever forgive him, or that he only lost his way and is now a changed man?? He said himself that he nearly killed that man in the bar. That was pre-outbreak. If the outbreak had never happened and Lucille had never developed cancer, then he would still be cheating on her and knocking people's heads together in bars. It is in his genetic make-up; it's not a product of his environment.
 

nixie

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Did we really need a back-story for Neegan? Am I now meant to feel sorry for him now and think of him as another victim?

I did like the story, but the idea that Maggie should ever forgive him, or that he only lost his way and is now a changed man?? He said himself that he nearly killed that man in the bar. That was pre-outbreak. If the outbreak had never happened and Lucille had never developed cancer, then he would still be cheating on her and knocking people's heads together in bars. It is in his genetic make-up; it's not a product of his environment.
I don't feel any sympathy. He was always capable of evil and no I don't think Maggie should forgive him.
 

Judderman

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Pretty good episode overall. Not outstanding, but I enjoyed it. I think a Negan backstory is well earnt, considering his screen time.

The change in character, even with the death of his wife seemed a bit too large for a sudden switch. Though was he already a bit unstable before? I'm thinking of the earlier fight he had (which wasn't shown). Like Dave mentions above.

I am unclear with the ending though with his laugh has he gone bad again? He has decided out of respect for his wife to bury the bat. But his cockiness seems to indicate he will be causing trouble again.

I think there could be a slot for a single backstory episode in the final season. But really want most of those episodes to rapidly move a hopefully interesting story along towards conclusion.. Though will it be a conclusion considering none of the Rick trilogy out yet? Maybe the 11 seasons are just film prequels :O
 

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When Negan returns and strolls into Alexandria, Carol warns him that Maggie will kill him if he stays. In the final seconds of the season, Negan and Maggie stare each other down as he flashes a smile and heads in. Here's Negan.

"That has to be wide open to interpretation," Morgan told Entertainment Weekly about Negan's grin. "I got to say that that really came about because me and Melissa were f---ing having fun in that little bit. I was laughing at her. We were just having a good time, in between takes and the whole deal."

Negan ends his short-lived exile because he's "not going to be the guy that can be out in the cabin by himself," Morgan explained. "So when he goes back and he makes a decision to go back, he's not going to bow down to Maggie. He's going to face this f---ing head-on. I think that little smile to Maggie is just his way of letting her know, 'I'm not running from this. I'm not running from you, and here I am.' I don't know if there's anything malicious to it. It was just, I was having fun."

His swagger comes back after his painful goodbye to Lucille, which ends with Negan burning the barbed wire-wrapped baseball bat he used to murder Maggie's husband Glenn (Steven Yeun) years earlier.

"I think after everything he had just gone through, reliving his past, I think he was itching to get a smile out. Negan is f---ing inappropriate at times," Morgan said. "That probably was an inappropriate smile, but it somehow worked. I did it other ways too. I did it a lot less jovial as well, but the editors kind of felt the same way I felt. Angela [Kang, showrunner] decided that a smile there kind of leaves it a little bit more open to interpretation."

"We survive. We provide security to others. We bring civilization back to this world. We are the Saviors." When telling Negan's (Jeffrey Dean Morgan) untold origin story in "Here's Negan," The Walking Dead tees up another backstory: how he became the bat-wielding leader of the Saviors. A flashback to 12 years earlier reveals the first future Savior when Laura (Lindsley Register) hands Negan the eventually barbed wire-wrapped baseball bat he'll name after his late wife Lucille (Hilarie Burton Morgan), but "Here's Negan" ends before Negan takes control of the "cult of personality" that forms around him: his followers who believe "We are Negan."

In the comic book origin story of the same name, Negan becomes the de facto of a group of survivors where he meets married couple Dwight and Sherry. Dwight (Austin Amelio) and Sherry (Christine Evangelista) don't appear in TV's "Here's Negan," but showrunner Angela Kang has revealed original plans had Amelio in a similar role to Laura's.

TV's Negan eventually meets his right-hand man, Simon (Steven Ogg), and together they take over a factory they call the Sanctuary. There Negan appoints his most trusted lieutenants, including Laura, Dwight, Gavin (Jayson Warner Smith), Arat (Elizabeth Ludlow), Gary (Mike Seal), and Regina (Traci Dinwiddie). In time, Negan's Saviors grows to hundreds of loyal followers who help him subjugate other communities.

Kang says more Negan backstory is unlikely to make its way into the eleventh and final season of The Walking Dead, but the beginnings of the Saviors is a story that can potentially unspool in another spin-off or the upcoming anthology series Tales of the Walking Dead.

"There's a ton of story in terms of what happens between ['Here’s Negan'] and his very first murder monologue and when our characters cross him [in the Season 6 finale],” Kang told Entertainment Weekly. "So I really hope that that is a story that is told at some point, but it will probably not be on the Walking Dead mothership series."

In November, Morgan said "no doors are closed" on a second Negan prequel after "Here's Negan" and that he's a "great character with many stories to tell." Morgan has repeatedly expressed an interest in a Negan film or another kind of continuation set before or after the character's time on The Walking Dead.
 

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I liked getting to know the pre-Zombocalypse Negan, but he could have been a fully-canonized saint and still need to be held accountable for his sins as Saviors CEO.
Are we to give him a temporary insanity pass because he occasionally "sees red" and bludgeons peoples' heads to a pulp to make a point?
Under "real life" circumstances, Carol should feel less than comfortable about double-crossing Negan on the Alpha assassination promise and about her subsequent self-appointed role has his handler.
She has the chutzpah to warn Negan, who may be at the razor's edge of another red vision shift, that Maggie would kill him if he stayed? Carol's safe, but what makes her think that Maggie's hateful stare can beat Negan's confident smirk?
 

Judderman

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Interesting that Negan's ending smile was initially put in there by the actor rather than any clear indication if he is going to be bad or not.. I hope there isn't too much time taken up with him receiving angry looks..

Maybe Carol doesn't like Maggie :O

I had forgotten the last series will be extra long, and there will be an anthology series too. With 24 episodes in the final season I fear it will be dragged out. With good episodes interspersed with build up episodes. Though you could have a lot of action if the writers decided to kill off a large chunk of the characters in various ways. I'm hoping they will have some characters meet gruesome or shock deaths, while others will make escapes. To keep you guessing. Carol and Daryl may be untouchable though, which isn't ideal. Which of the other characters would be stressed about losing because we like them? Perhaps Eugene would be one of those. Possibly Maggie.

Look at Better Call Saul and we can see that entire series/shows of backstory to another series character can work, with exceptional writing. Even though basically we know where they end up. But I feel the enthusiasm for Negan backstories may have dwindled. Not saying it can't be good though, especially if based on Kirkman's existing work. But in that one episode we have already seen Negan transform into a nasty badass.
 

ctg

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Are we to give him a temporary insanity pass because he occasionally "sees red" and bludgeons peoples' heads to a pulp to make a point?

That's the thing. According to Negan he always sees red. So, as it is with Carol Negan cannot really help it. Instead he has to struggle with the conscience, but also with that part which makes him mad.

I don't know if you or others noticed, I referenced Sam Raimi's Evil Dead because that's exactly what he was going through. The pains of the other self, the evil side of him coming out and dominating the nature. Maybe it'll means that he's a bit of schizophrenic. To us that might be the difficult part to notice, because we assume that's he's whole even though all of it is just there and the cabin brought it out.

Maybe he's kind of Norman Bates.
She has the chutzpah to warn Negan, who may be at the razor's edge of another red vision shift, that Maggie would kill him if he stayed?

It has been long time on cards. The evil has its opposite and that is culminating in Maggie.

Carol and Daryl may be untouchable though, which isn't ideal. Which of the other characters would be stressed about losing because we like them?

I don't think any of them will make it. Maybe there will be a time when they all die and it will end the series in a different state than what HBO managed do with the GoT.
But I feel the enthusiasm for Negan backstories may have dwindled.

It might be a limited or not appear at all, just because he's an evil character and all of that stuff should be left in the past.
 

Jeffbert

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I really enjoyed this episode, & was glad to see Neegan's backstory. Will they ever do backstories for Merle, the Governor, or other villains? I guess Negan is the only one who lasted more than a few seasons.
 
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Judderman

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There is a Rise of the Governor comic series, so potentially that backstory could happen too. Though a long time since most viewers were thinking of him, so it seems unlikely.
 

Judderman

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..I don't think any of them will make it. Maybe there will be a time when they all die and it will end the series in a different state than what HBO managed do with the GoT.
I would be astonished if all the characters were killed off in the final season. I think they would show a hope for at least some remaining characters. Perhaps with many of the Walkers collapsing. Though that could wait for the end of the film Trilogy.

I have a feeling Negan may do something bad again, or plan to, but he will be either stopped or distracted by Judith rather than Maggie.
 
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