Anyone here considering switching from self-pub to traditional?

[thisreidwrites]

Hi there! My name is Ruthanne, and I've been a self-published author since 2012.

Why self-pub? Because when I tried to get an agent, I got the same response from almost all of them: we love this book. It's so great. But it's weird, so we can't sell it. Sorry.

So I moved on and did my own thing.

These days, my agented friends are telling me that publishing has really changed (which it has), and my stuff would now be welcome. My question honestly is if it's a good idea to try to switch.

I'd love to know if anyone here has made that move, and if you have any thoughts on your experiences. Thanks in advance for any answers!

 

[Dan Jones]

Hi @thisreidwrites. I'm pretty sure a lot of writers out there who go for the "hybrid" model of publishing, using a mix of SP and trad publishing to get their stuff out there, so I don't think there's a problem in switching between the two options. However, the problem with SP is that unless your book goes absolutely gangbusters (ie The Martian) you won't be able to sell it to a publisher; they'll only be interested in new material, so you'll have to pick and choose what's the best option for each book.

Unfortunately I do still think that trad publishers and agents are a conservative bunch, and don't tend to take risks on books by debutants that are weird, overly long or out there*. I say that as my experience sounds very similar to yours. My last novel got serious interest from two high profile agents, and they ummed and ahhed for a few weeks over it, but in the end it was deemed to be very weird and a tad long - and therefore slightly too big a risk – for a debut novelist. So the advice was, write something else that is closer to that commercially sweet spot, and hold back your big, out-there stuff for when you're established. That's what I've done and I'm just about to sub my latest WIP, so we'll see how that goes. It is unfortunate that this is the case, but it is a business and the publishers are the ones taking the risk, so IMO it's fair enough.

*There are exceptions. I'm reading Mark Danielewski's House Of Leaves, and it's hard to imagine a more out-there and experimental debut novel than that, so it is possible, but I imagine such cases are one in a million.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

There are examples of novelists who started as self published and then went trad - Andy Weir, Michael J Sullivan, Jodi Taylor iirc, all spring to mind. But it's not easy, you need to be able to show an excellent sales basis, and a publisher has to feel that the book is still marketable. As Dan says, lots of us are hybrid ( I tend to self publish my weird Northern Irish Sci fi since it redefines niche*, and have a small publisher for my fantasy.)

*but there is more than one way to succeed at writing. My weird stuff brings me in way more of my more traditional stuff and has made my name locally, so that I am well supported by the arts council, by people wanting to commission stuff for me (come to me for all your out-there-frozen-Celtic-north needs) and, whilst it's not a living, it is significant in terms of income and is growing all the time.

 

[thisreidwrites]

Thanks, both of you! That's really given me some stuff to chew on. I appreciate the feedback! Best of luck in your writing.

 

[Tirellan]

Now is not a good time to try and get anything trad published as the market is tighter than ever due to a large number of books being held over from last year by the majors. I'm agented but my agent declined my most recent offering as he didn't think he could sell it in the current market.

 

[Dr. Tilak]

Hi there! My name is Ruthanne, and I've been a self-published author since 2012.

Why self-pub? Because when I tried to get an agent, I got the same response from almost all of them: we love this book. It's so great. But it's weird, so we can't sell it. Sorry.

So I moved on and did my own thing.

These days, my agented friends are telling me that publishing has really changed (which it has), and my stuff would now be welcome. My question honestly is if it's a good idea to try to switch.

I'd love to know if anyone here has made that move, and if you have any thoughts on your experiences. Thanks in advance for any answers!

I'm. But I haven't ever self-published.
But I am looking for a good traditional publisher.

 

[Swank]

What would be the downside to getting a traditional publishing deal?

 

[Brian G Turner]

The downsides include having no control over your work, getting little in royalties while most goes to the publisher, and also having to sign away rights to everything from screenplay adaptions to characters. That's certainly the way it was going a few years back so I figure it's even worse now.

The trouble is, despite all the pitfalls of trad publishing, self-publishing is for the most part really just vanity publishing - publishing for the self and a few close friends and relatives, with little chance of ever being read by a wider audience.

It used to be the case that vanity presses were frowned upon because of high fees and a general perception that the writer was getting ripped off - but if you make an effort to pay for professional covers and editing you're already building up big costs and need to have a very serious marketing plan to have any possibility of making any of that money back.

What's even worse is that a lot of self-published writers aren't bothered about money because they feel other people reading their ideas and characters is all that matters, so they give their books away for free - which has created a massive market segment of readers who now refuse to buy books and don't mind if what they read for free is a bit crap.

 

[Dan Jones]

I'd also add that you have to deal with the commercial risks that publishers are bound to (see my post above from last year - last year!?). Publishers are extremely economically conservative, and though they purport to be culturally liberal, this is constrained by the bounds of commercial reality. If you SP you can go full-on experimental wacko without worrying about it.

The downsides include having no control over your work, getting little in royalties while most goes to the publisher, and also having to sign away rights to everything from screenplay adaptions to characters. That's certainly the way it was going a few years back so I figure it's even worse now.

I'd qualify this by saying that, as Sammy Davis Jr would say, it ain't necessarily so. It depends on the publisher and agency you manage to get. There are plenty of boutique agencies and small publishers who will work with the author to realise their vision, but also plenty of "sausage factory" agencies (United, for example) and publishers, where you have to fit their designs, and if you don't sell, you're dropped.

PLUG ALERT! The next two episodes of the Chronscast podcast will feature two very successful UK literary agents (Ed Wilson and John Jarrold) as guests, and we ask them a lot of questions about these very things, so please take the time to check them out. They came up with some fascinating insights, more than one gets from the usual Q&As with agents, or "what should I do for my query" type articles.

 

[Christine Wheelwright]

Brandon Sanderson does quite a thorough pros-and-cons analysis in one of his lectures (available on Youtube). He makes the point that self publishing (eg on KDP) can be quite lucrative on a 'per sale' basis compared to traditional. @Brian G Turner , I'm guilty of giving my writing away under various pseudonyms . The thrill of readers in the +100K (and the interesting feedback generated) surpasses the monetary value of the sales I used to obtain. Having said that, I am hoping to produce something of greater quality soon and will probably try a traditional route to publication (through an agent).

 

[Steve Harrison]

The downsides include having no control over your work, getting little in royalties while most goes to the publisher, and also having to sign away rights to everything from screenplay adaptions to characters. That's certainly the way it was going a few years back so I figure it's even worse now.

I had (and have) no interest in self-publishing, so I hung out for 20+ years trying to get an agent and/or publisher. I finally secured a small publisher in the UK, so I just wanted to make some comments regarding those downsides.

It's correct that most of the money goes to the publisher (I was happy with my royalties deal), but they provide all the resources and expertise - and pay an advance - to bring the book up to professional standard. I had final say on all editorial suggestions/advice ( I agreed with most) and I retained the screen and game rights to both of my novels (published in 2015 & 2019). They were happy to remove that clause from the contract. I would certainly submit to them again, but as they specialise in SFF my latest novels are not suitable.

I often hear bad things about traditional publishers, but I have nothing but good to say about mine. They were upfront about their resources and what they could offer, provided excellent editors for each book, were very accommodating when negotiating our contract and nursed this very nervous first time author through the process.

Maybe I got lucky, but I have since found that my experience is not uncommon and I suspect bad news travels much further than good

 

[KGeo777]

There is a publisher of monster books--I don't want to name them. They get a lot of 5 star ratings and sales but the negative ratings rip them apart for spelling mistakes and bad editing.
Sour grapes? Competitor sabotage?

I've looked at a couple of their books--and there are spelling mistakes and run on sentences on the first pages. It is apparent they don't edit them.

Is that a traditional publisher? It isn't Vanity Publisher, it is more like Inanity Publisher.