Favorite/least favorite tropes

[luriantimetraveler]

I'm working on my second-ever sci-fi story, and recognizing all the cultural shorthands (cliches, tropes) to fill in all the places where I haven't figured out my world/story yet. I know there are some that I will take out later (and replace with more creative, story-appropriate elements) but I'm also just curious:

• What are your favorite tropes in SF/F?
• What are your least favorite/make you put down the book tropes?

 

[.matthew.]

These aren't exactly tropes, but they are things I see a lot in sci-fi that generally put me off the author for good.

Over-explaining everything - especially in dialogue to a character that seemingly only exists to ask questions about stuff. Unless it's hard science-based realism, then we don't need to know the 15 specific details of how this technology works as it's all gibberish anyway

Definitive evil - I know we want to route for the good guys, but a lot of sci-fi goes all out to make the bad guys irredeemable lunatics.

Escalation into the unbelievable - Either in tactics or technology, when an author out of nowhere keeps adding new stuff to the series to increase the tension or add 'Michael Bay' moments. For example I'm reading the third book in a sci-fi trilogy right now that begins the day after the last book ended and now has crazy hacking technology and a multiple missile launcher added to the good guys ship, while the bad guys (cough genocidal) get brand new faster than light missiles and new ftl jammers that don't actually block those missiles from working. The tactics used are also completely insane and appear to exist purely for the mental image rather than being viable in any way.

 

[Nara]

Favourite -

Found family/Team building - A group of misfits coming together for a common cause with different skills etc... (Six of Crows)
Mentor-Apprentice Relationship - Brom and Eragon, Oromis and Eragon, Halt and Will
Rags to Riches - The journey is often really interesting. Can be in a good way or bad way.
Revolution/rebellion (Slightly overdone these days though)
Opposite duo/ partners (not romantic) - The calm best friend and the fiery one - Kuroko and Aomine, Legolas and Gimli etc...

Least favourite-
The chosen one, bad boy love interest, love triangles, also 'I'm not like other girls' female characters, possessive love interests, miscommunications to create conflict, two dimensional villains with no proper backstory or motive, over emphasis on the primary romance

 

[luriantimetraveler]

These aren't exactly tropes, but they are things I see a lot in sci-fi that generally put me off the author for good.

Over-explaining everything - especially in dialogue to a character that seemingly only exists to ask questions about stuff. Unless it's hard science-based realism, then we don't need to know the 15 specific details of how this technology works as it's all gibberish anyway

Definitive evil - I know we want to route for the good guys, but a lot of sci-fi goes all out to make the bad guys irredeemable lunatics.

Escalation into the unbelievable - Either in tactics or technology, when an author out of nowhere keeps adding new stuff to the series to increase the tension or add 'Michael Bay' moments. For example I'm reading the third book in a sci-fi trilogy right now that begins the day after the last book ended and now has crazy hacking technology and a multiple missile launcher added to the good guys ship, while the bad guys (cough genocidal) get brand new faster than light missiles and new ftl jammers that don't actually block those missiles from working. The tactics used are also completely insane and appear to exist purely for the mental image rather than being viable in any way.

Big YUP to all of these — especially the escalation into the unbelievable! It always feels like such lazy writing, or like the author has a serious case of "Ooh! Shiny thing! I'll add that too!"

 

[luriantimetraveler]

Favourite -

Found family/Team building - A group of misfits coming together for a common cause with different skills etc... (Six of Crows)
Mentor-Apprentice Relationship - Brom and Eragon, Oromis and Eragon, Halt and Will
Rags to Riches - The journey is often really interesting. Can be in a good way or bad way.
Revolution/rebellion (Slightly overdone these days though)
Opposite duo/ partners (not romantic) - The calm best friend and the fiery one - Kuroko and Aomine, Legolas and Gimli etc...

Least favourite-
The chosen one, bad boy love interest, love triangles, also 'I'm not like other girls' female characters, possessive love interests, miscommunications to create conflict, two dimensional villains with no proper backstory or motive, over emphasis on the primary romance

I think the "not like other girls" is probably my LEAST favorite of my least favorite tropes! It's such a short-cut characterization .

I'm also a big fan of found family/team building. Well-done found family books really leverage character for conflict, which is my favorite kind of story (rather than external events always creating trouble).

 

[Wayne Mack]

Favorite:

• Background character stand up and cheer moment. Have a background character do something heroic in the lead up to the climax. Tom Clancy would often introduce a character for one chapter to do this. In Die Hard, the limo driver sleeps through most of the movie only to wake up to defeat the least frightening bad guy.

Could go either way:

• Betrayer redeemed in death. Have a secondary character who is collaborating with the enemy who comes to a moral realization that he or she must support the good guys again. To make things morally right in the universe, this character must also die in the attempt.

Least Favorite:

• Pointless Hero's Journey. Have the primary character wander the planet visiting strange and wonderous sites, gathering a varied group of allies, gathering weapons, and gathering skills and talents only to go into one-on-one battle with the primary bad guy and not use any of the weapons or skills obtained.
• The last dragon egg. Way over done. I just wish the next time some farm boy or girl discovers a strange, giant egg that they just cook it for breakfast and try to do something different.

 

[HalaxyGigh]

Least favourite-
... 'I'm not like other girls' female characters...

I think the "not like other girls" is probably my LEAST favorite of my least favorite tropes! It's such a short-cut characterization .

What do you mean by "not like other girls" female characters?

 

[luriantimetraveler]

@HalaxyGigh From TV Tropes:

On the surface, it's nice to hear someone say you're special. It's flattering to the ego to hear that you're better than the competition. That might be why this line is almost only found in young adult and teen stories. Writers may not expect teens to take subtext or larger social implications into consideration.

However it's meant, this line can be interpreted as a backhanded compliment or even outright Condescending Compassion. By saying that your intelligence, sense of humor, chastity, lack of interest in makeup, independence, or whatever make you "different from other guys/girls," it's implied that your gender is inferior by default (compare You Are a Credit to Your Race).

 

[Robert Zwilling]

Favorite: people helping people get things done

Least favorites: rock steady character suddenly develops weakness to enable next step in the plot to take place and giving a villian/s who has/have been on a non stop crusade of evil. time to get out of a game ending situation by being given too much time to act or way too slow on the draw, or another sudden lapse of clear thinking, which results in the hero getting thunked on the head and the story continues on. I know it happens in real life. but when you can see it coming five minutes away, that's too awkward.

I don't go in for "excessive characterization" so can't help you there much, but drama is real popular, probably for the majority of people, so maybe continual self inflicted problems, which does happen in real life, does gets boring after awhile in a story.

 

[HalaxyGigh]

@HalaxyGigh From TV Tropes:

I'm writing something with a female main character who is literally "not like other women" due to not being quite human. She is feminine and doesn't emulate or imitate men, but sees herself as above human social norms and uses her privileged state to be rebellious and subversive, acting contrary to custom for women (which is strict in her world, based on a historical setting) and prefers being around men as most women in her society are forced to be submissive and passive, while acting freely around men who are dangerous or powerful feels empowering for her - so she doesn't truly rebel against her society's status quo or system, she benefits from it, while still being subversive on a shallow level. She is meant to be both relatable and flawed.
Would you consider THIS character to be an example of "not like other girls"?

 

[luriantimetraveler]

@HalaxyGigh — I definitely don't think that a female character who is different from other women (or humans!) is necessarily falling into the trope. I think it more comes from attitude — in your description of your protagonist, I see she...

prefers being around men as most women in her society are forced to be submissive and passive

which suggests that she's not really subverting, and is instead buying into the idea that women are "submissive and passive", rather than complex, nuanced, diverse individuals. So...I think I would turn the question around:

• How does your protagonist think about other women in her community? Does she dismiss them the way men do? Does she find empowerment in the way men treat her differently than other women? Does she try and spread that empowerment around/leverage it to create change, or does she accept it as being "the exception that proves the rule"?
• Is she defined/characterized in ways other than just in comparison to other women? <— I think this is a key with the "not like other girls": like, when a female character is defined primarily in contrast to other women, rather than on her own terms.

Hope that's helpful to think of!

 

[HalaxyGigh]

@HalaxyGigh

• How does your protagonist think about other women in her community?

Not sure yet, but generally unempathetic.

@HalaxyGigh

• Does she dismiss them the way men do?

Yes, but not for the exact same reason, and the main difference is that she also looks down on men for being different to her (not being human)

@HalaxyGigh

• Does she find empowerment in the way men treat her differently than other women?

Yes.

@HalaxyGigh

• Does she try and spread that empowerment around/leverage it to create change, or does she accept it as being "the exception that proves the rule"?

She mainly accepts it. The thing is, her not being human is something that signifies her superiority, and thus the system that makes most people less than her is the same system that makes her more than them. For that reason she's aware of the injustice but doesn't have much inclination to change it (as well as changing it being seemingly impossible)

@HalaxyGigh

• Is she defined/characterized in ways other than just in comparison to other women? <— I think this is a key with the "not like other girls": like, when a female character is defined primarily in contrast to other women, rather than on her own terms.

Yes, that's the intention, but how well I can convey that to readers I can't really say. Plus being heavily defined by comparison to men as well as other women, in her non-human nature, her social status and role, is a big thing in the story.

Does this sound like a good character or just another cliched "Not Like Other Girls"?

 

[tinkerdan]

I think when recognizing that there are tropes in the writing; the first response should be, do I need that.

I also think there is a thin difference though definitely a difference, between Trope and plot device. Certain types of stories employ plot devices that eventually are used so often that they become trope-ish or cliche'. At that point one has to decide if the type of story you are writing can survive without that device and or if you can twist it just a bit to make it something new and somewhat unexpected.

The important thing is recognizing them and making a hard decision about if they should make the final cut or not.

 

[luriantimetraveler]

Not sure yet, but generally unempathetic.


Yes, but not for the exact same reason, and the main difference is that she also looks down on men for being different to her (not being human)


Yes.


She mainly accepts it. The thing is, her not being human is something that signifies her superiority, and thus the system that makes most people less than her is the same system that makes her more than them. For that reason she's aware of the injustice but doesn't have much inclination to change it (as well as changing it being seemingly impossible)

Yes, that's the intention, but how well I can convey that to readers I can't really say. Plus being heavily defined by comparison to men as well as other women, in her non-human nature, her social status and role, is a big thing in the story.

Does this sound like a good character or just another cliched "Not Like Other Girls"?

Without reading your story, it's hard to say! Right now, it doesn't not sound like the "not like other girls" trope, but obviously your actual story contains so much more than the summary so who knows! I'm also not like...the ultimate authority on it, so other readers might see/not see that trope in the same places I do!

 

[Toby Frost]

I don't know if it's an age thing, but I tend not to think in terms of tropes. It seems that if you try hard enough everything can be made part of one trope or another. I often see books (particularly Romance novels) advertised as containing various tropes, but my thought is always "Yes, but is it any good?" If the writing and research are good enough and the subject matter isn't extremely tired or downright offensive, I reckon almost anything can be made to work.

 

[TheDreadScotsman]

Just to echo what Toby Frost is saying, it seems like the current trope is breaking tropes. Almost every fiction novel I read is clearly setting up an older trope so that it can change it to the opposite of the expected out come. In a way subversion is itself a trope now.
I don't know what you do with that information. It's just to say that, trope or subversion, all of it's on the table now and I'd go either way on my enjoyment depending on how good the writing is and how much I care about the characters..
If I had to pick a least favorite trope in Sci-Fi though, it would be the rallying of characters around pro-human themes. I can't imagine a space-faring human future where people from Earth all are still convinced that humanity needs to conglomerate into one unified force. The reality is that humans are going to make decisions based on their personal well-being and their bank accounts, whether it's human money or galactic money.

 

[The Big Peat]

I don't know if it's an age thing, but I tend not to think in terms of tropes. It seems that if you try hard enough everything can be made part of one trope or another. I often see books (particularly Romance novels) advertised as containing various tropes, but my thought is always "Yes, but is it any good?" If the writing and research are good enough and the subject matter isn't extremely tired or downright offensive, I reckon almost anything can be made to work.

This was very nearly my response. And I wish it wasn't this way, as it leads to readers not engaging with books for what they actually say, instead of what they are trained to think they say (although I suspect anyone who's ever read stories of authors reacting to the sort of literary criticism found in schools knows there's nothing true here).



However, since we are here, there are a few things listed as tropes that are very difficult sells for me, and one of them is when the main character has to clear their name. Why? It involves having us believe the other characters are right to suspect the suspect when we know they haven't done it, which is a hard sell. The MC is usually sold as competent, but there they can't be competent enough to clear their name quickly, which isn't always easy either. The likelihood of getting frustrated at some aspect of the plot is high, and that's why I mostly don't like them.

 

[luriantimetraveler]

I don't know if it's an age thing, but I tend not to think in terms of tropes. It seems that if you try hard enough everything can be made part of one trope or another. I often see books (particularly Romance novels) advertised as containing various tropes, but my thought is always "Yes, but is it any good?" If the writing and research are good enough and the subject matter isn't extremely tired or downright offensive, I reckon almost anything can be made to work.

Having spent some time in the romance world, this is 100% a part of how they operate! I say this without denigrating romance at all: romance readers want something that doesn't surprise them. They read for comfort and escape, and an affirmation of what they believe in and desire. So it totally makes sense that they leverage tropes to make sure they give readers what they want

I also have a background in YA, which is also trope-tastic town!

I also agree with you and @The Big Peat that a GOOD writer can make any trope work.

Personally, I think it's interesting to think about them as story building blocks, or pieces of cultural shorthand, and then ask myself: is this useful to me in the story I want to tell? How can I learn from the successes and failures of the ways this has been used by other storytellers?

 

[Brian G Turner]

They read for comfort and escape, and an affirmation of what they believe in and desire.

I think this applies across the genres - thrillers, science fiction, and fantasy as well. That's why readers favor particular genres - because they have set expectations of what they'll encounter.

 

[Toby Frost]

I sort-of agree. I think one of the functions of Romance (as opposed to books with romantic subplots) is to provide a kind of emotional hit: tropes do the same thing. I don't really read that way - I wonder if it's a pre-and-post internet thing.

I guess if there's something that will push me away from a book (apart from bad writing) it's a sense of having read it too many times before. Certain types of character bring certain types of story with them, and I think if I'm going to read something like that, I want it to be done very well or to have some new twist.