Larry Niven's Known Space Reading-Order Flowchart

Mike J Nagle

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Hello, again.

Here is a reading-order flowchart covering Larry Niven's Known Space stories.

This flowchart is one of over a dozen such flowcharts that I have created over the last four and a half years, all of which I posted in Baen's Bar.

Now that Baen's Bar is on hiatus, I have joined SFF Chronicles, and have decided to post all of my reading-order flowcharts in their appropriate forums (fora?).

The next flowchart I intend to post covers Jerry Pournelle's CoDominium Universe.

Any comments, questions, corrections, and criticism are sincerely welcomed.

Enjoy,

Mike
Known_Space_Flowchart.jpg
 

BAYLOR

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Nevermind.
 
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Mike J Nagle

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Location
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Baen's Bar. ?

Baen's Bar was an online community (a set of forums run by Baen Books on their commercial website for fans and authors of their books). It was not unlike the SFF Chronicles. Jim Baen had it set up in 1999, and it flourished up until the middle of February 2021.

Unfortunately, no community of human beings has ever suffered a shortage of stupid members, and the Bar was no exception. A few of the forums were taken over by so-called "Conservatives" who ganged together to bully anyone they called "Liberal". The "Politics" and "Truth vs Pravda" (religion) and "Blazes" (flames) forums were especially bad.

An independent writer named Jason Sanford wrote what he called "an investigative report" (I call it a "hit-piece",) "exposing" the Bar's sins. He claimed that Baen Books had wilfully permitted the "Barflies" to seditiously encourage the start of a second American Civil War. (In reality, several of the more right-wing 'flies had actually advised everyone to prepare themselves for survival of such a civil war, but nobody actually advocated civil war.)

Sanford and a few dozen others, who knew nothing more about Baen Books than what they read in Sanborn's essay, began to put pressure on Baen's ISP to de-platform Baen Books because Baen Books was "inciting insurrection."

Now, Baen Books depend heavily on e-book sales over the internet, so de-platforming would likely mean Baen's going out of business. Toni Weisskopf, the publisher at Baen, freaked out at the prospect, so she shut down the Bar ("put it on hiatus", in her words) to avoid losing the company and its customers.

This was a very unfortunate development for us Barflies. There were far more forums that were quite benign, and not at all dominated by right-wing a**holes.

For example, many of the forums were dedicated to Baen's authors to facilitate communication between fans and the authors. With the possible exception of Tom Kratman's forum, none of the traffic in them them ever came anywhere close to sedition or treason. (Tom Kratman is a special case. He seems to have moved politically so far to the Right that he has ceased to recognize that anything like a Center ever existed, or that anyone on the Left qualifies as human. Be that as it may, I find most of Kratman's books to be quite unreadable, but some people actually like them. You're welcome to read them if you wish—your mileage may vary.)

There were also forums dedicated to "Space Tech", "Future Tech", "Baen Appetite" (cooking), "Books" (all books, not just Baen's), "Authors", "Classic Science Fiction", and other non-political content. As well there were other forums for discussion of Ring-of-Fire (1632)-related topics ("1632 Tech") and unsolicited manuscripts for the Grantville Gazette, an e-magazine that specializes in 1632-universe stories and articles. "1632 Slush" was dedicated to posting prospective manuscripts, and "1632 Slush Comments" was dedicated to comments by Barflies—fans and authors—concerning the stories or articles in "1632 Slush" which served as a slush pile for the Grantville Gazette e-zine.

By the way, I, myself, have been published as a result of posting in "1632 Slush." The last three issues of Grantville Gazette (Numbers 91, 92, and 93) have contained a "fact" article I wrote, published serially in three parts, concerning the flags used by the United States of Europe, one the various countries in the 1632 universe.

Needless to say, Toni Weisskopf threw out the baby with the bathwater when she shut down Baen's Bar, but I don't really blame her. Instead I blame Jason Sanborn and his happy little crew of sock-puppets.

<Climbing down from soapbox>

I hope this cleared up your confusion.

Mike
 
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BAYLOR

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Thanks Mike . I changed comment because I didn't think it really relevant. Sorry.:(


Ive been to few not so nice forums. I make it point to avoid such places . We used to have a world affairs forum here on SFF but, things started to get uncivil and so they wisely did away with it. We don't need it anyways. Everyone here is nice, respectful and civil and that's way we like it. :)
 
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Mike J Nagle

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Ive been to few not so nice forums. I make it point to avoid such places . We used to have a world affairs forum here on SFF but, things started to get uncivil and so they wisely did away with it. We don't need it anyways. Everyone here is nice, respectful and civil and that's way we like it. :)

In hindsight, I wish that Baen's Bar had done the same with the cesspools, such as "Politics", "Truth vs Pravda", and "Blazes", instead of simply trying to confine that poison to those forums.

In case you haven't noticed, I'm feeling a little bitter over the situation...

Mike
 

BAYLOR

There Are Always new Things to Learn.
Joined
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In hindsight, I wish that Baen's Bar had done the same with the cesspools, such as "Politics", "Truth vs Pravda", and "Blazes", instead of simply trying to confine that poison to those forums.

In case you haven't noticed, I'm feeling a little bitter over the situation...

Mike

You loved being there , it was home and now it's gone because a few bad apples ruined it . So, I think I can understand the bitterness. I think you'll like it here though.
 
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BAYLOR

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The only books ive read by Niven are Ringworld and The Magic Goes Away. both of which I liked. :cool: I do at some point plan to read more of him.:)
 

Don

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This latest Baen's bar brouhaha brings to mind the Sad/Rabid Puppies hullabaloo from a few years ago. This current commotion caused Germanic Gleichschaltung to become part of my vocabulary.
 

Mike J Nagle

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The only books ive read by Niven are Ringworld and The Magic Goes Away. both of which I liked. :cool: I do at some point plan to read more of him.:)

Baylor,

For what it's worth, Ringworld and its sequels:

• The Ringworld Engineers
• The Ringworld Throne
• Ringworld's Children
• Fate of Worlds

form a complete and satisfying story arc.

However, before you read the sequels to Ringworld, you would probably be well served if you first read the following collections and novels:

• Neutron Star (collection)
• Tales of Known Space (collection)
• World of Ptaavs (optional)
• Protector
• A Gift from Earth
(original title Slowboat Cargo, originally published in serial form in Worlds of If, Feb, Mar, and Apr 1968 issues, where I first read it. I was nine at the time.)

They will give you important background and context for understanding the novels after Ringworld.

The preliminary volumes are mostly shorter books than the novels in the Ringworld arc, and most of those stories were written in the 1960s, early in Niven's writing career.

I have read and reread all of these stories, and enjoyed them all immensely. (During the 1960s and 1970s, Larry Niven was my favorite SF writer.)

Just a recommendation...

Mike
 

BAYLOR

There Are Always new Things to Learn.
Joined
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Baylor,

For what it's worth, Ringworld and its sequels:



form a complete and satisfying story arc.

However, before you read the later novels of the Ringworld arc, you would probably be well served if you first read the following collections and novels:



They will give you important background and context for understanding the novels after Ringworld.

The preliminary volumes are mostly shorter books than the novels in the Ringworld arc, and most of those stories were written in the 1960s, early in Niven's writing career.

I have read and reread all of these stories, and enjoyed them all immensely. (During the 1960s and 1970s, Larry Niven was my favorite SF writer.)

Just a suggestion...

Mike


Thanks Mike :)
 

BAYLOR

There Are Always new Things to Learn.
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Unrelated I do have book suggestions of my own but I suspect you've read everything ive read and far more . :)
 

J-Sun

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In case you haven't noticed, I'm feeling a little bitter over the situation...

Sounds like what happened to the Analog and Asimov's science fiction magazine SF boards I used to frequent which also got destroyed by politics (incidentally, Kratman occupied the politics sub-forum there as well and was just as unhelpful then). They got shut down back in 2008 or so and I'm still bitter. But it led to my joining up here, just like you.

I don't like this board having a topic area excluded but it seems to be a requirement to have a functioning board. So welcome to a stable one.
 

Mike J Nagle

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Messages
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Hello,

* * * UPDATE * * *

On April 9, 2021 Baen's Bar was reopened—with a few changes. <Whoopee!>

The Bar no longer allows files to be attached to posts, to minimize on copyright violations.

Before somebody can join the Bar as a new member, he (or she) now must have purchased at least one Baen Books title, to, as Toni Weisskopf put it, “give them skin in the game”. Former members have been grandfathered, and their accounts restored.

Also, more moderators have been appointed, and have been given more power to do their jobs.

Meanwhile, virtually all of the pre-hiatus forums have been restored, although some of the worst posts from before have been removed.

Going forward, I hope that The Bar can continue to operate without interruption.

I only hope that things will get better in the future...

A happy ending?

Mike

Baen's Bar was an online community (a set of forums run by Baen Books on their commercial website for fans and authors of their books). It was not unlike the SFF Chronicles. Jim Baen had it set up in 1999, and it flourished up until the middle of February 2021.

Unfortunately, no community of human beings has ever suffered a shortage of stupid members, and the Bar was no exception. A few of the forums were taken over by so-called "Conservatives" who ganged together to bully anyone they called "Liberal". The "Politics" and "Truth vs Pravda" (religion) and "Blazes" (flames) forums were especially bad.

An independent writer named Jason Sanford wrote what he called "an investigative report" (I call it a "hit-piece",) "exposing" the Bar's sins. He claimed that Baen Books had wilfully permitted the "Barflies" to seditiously encourage the start of a second American Civil War. (In reality, several of the more right-wing 'flies had actually advised everyone to prepare themselves for survival of such a civil war, but nobody actually advocated civil war.)

Sanford and a few dozen others, who knew nothing more about Baen Books than what they read in Sanborn's essay, began to put pressure on Baen's ISP to de-platform Baen Books because Baen Books was "inciting insurrection."

Now, Baen Books depend heavily on e-book sales over the internet, so de-platforming would likely mean Baen's going out of business. Toni Weisskopf, the publisher at Baen, freaked out at the prospect, so she shut down the Bar ("put it on hiatus", in her words) to avoid losing the company and its customers.

This was a very unfortunate development for us Barflies. There were far more forums that were quite benign, and not at all dominated by right-wing a**holes.

For example, many of the forums were dedicated to Baen's authors to facilitate communication between fans and the authors. With the possible exception of Tom Kratman's forum, none of the traffic in them them ever came anywhere close to sedition or treason. (Tom Kratman is a special case. He seems to have moved politically so far to the Right that he has ceased to recognize that anything like a Center ever existed, or that anyone on the Left qualifies as human. Be that as it may, I find most of Kratman's books to be quite unreadable, but some people actually like them. You're welcome to read them if you wish—your mileage may vary.)

There were also forums dedicated to "Space Tech", "Future Tech", "Baen Appetite" (cooking), "Books" (all books, not just Baen's), "Authors", "Classic Science Fiction", and other non-political content. As well there were other forums for discussion of Ring-of-Fire (1632)-related topics ("1632 Tech") and unsolicited manuscripts for the Grantville Gazette, an e-magazine that specializes in 1632-universe stories and articles. "1632 Slush" was dedicated to posting prospective manuscripts, and "1632 Slush Comments" was dedicated to comments by Barflies—fans and authors—concerning the stories or articles in "1632 Slush" which served as a slush pile for the Grantville Gazette e-zine.

By the way, I, myself, have been published as a result of posting in "1632 Slush." The last three issues of Grantville Gazette (Numbers 91, 92, and 93) have contained a "fact" article I wrote, published serially in three parts, concerning the flags used by the United States of Europe, one the various countries in the 1632 universe.

Needless to say, Toni Weisskopf threw out the baby with the bathwater when she shut down Baen's Bar, but I don't really blame her. Instead I blame Jason Sanborn and his happy little crew of sock-puppets.

<Climbing down from soapbox>

I hope this cleared up your confusion.

Mike
 

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