August 2020 Reading Thread

[Brian G Turner]

Many times when I'm reading what a lot of people consider to be an absolute classic, I find it sadly wanting.

I'm glad I'm not alone in that club!

 

[Foxbat]

Finished David Weber’s Flag In Exile and I’m going to have to give Honor Harrington a rest for a while. To be honest, I’m starting to find it all a bit twee and she’s just a bit too perfect. I know there’s a justification made in both cases but I found the bad guys dealing with their guilt in just a matter of seconds after the tragedy just too unbelievable. No personal nightmare to struggle with even if they believed it was all part of God’s plan? Another wordy justification for taking out an expert swordsman follows. This after her own limited practice simply wasn’t enough to be believable either (especially given her physical condition at the time).

I also find it strange also that she constantly saw herself as ugly (but we all know she’s actually beautiful just like the ugly duckling). Why is it most if not all heroines appear to be physically attractive? I think it would be far more interesting to chart the progress of a truly plain woman rising in a man’s world.

Now starting a book on the Boer War.

 

[tobl]

Finished David Weber’s Flag In Exile and I’m going to have to give Honor Harrington a rest for a while. To be honest, I’m starting to find it all a bit twee and she’s just a bit too perfect. I know there’s a justification made in both cases but I found the bad guys dealing with their guilt in just a matter of seconds after the tragedy just too unbelievable. No personal nightmare to struggle with even if they believed it was all part of God’s plan? Another wordy justification for taking out an expert swordsman follows. This after her own limited practice simply wasn’t enough to be believable either (especially given her physical condition at the time).

I also find it strange also that she constantly saw herself as ugly (but we all know she’s actually beautiful just like the ugly duckling). Why is it most if not all heroines appear to be physically attractive? I think it would be far more interesting to chart the progress of a truly plain woman rising in a man’s world.

Now starting a book on the Boer War.

here, to explain the part of the sword:
A master of the tea ceremony in old Japan once accidentally slighted a soldier. He quickly apologized, but the rather impetuous soldier demanded that the matter be settled in a sword duel. The tea master, who had no experience with swords, asked the advice of a fellow Zen master who did possess such skill. As he was served by his friend, the Zen swordsman could not help but notice how the tea master performed his art with perfect concentration and tranquility. "Tomorrow," the Zen swordsman said, "when you duel the soldier, hold your weapon above your head, as if ready to strike, and face him with the same concentration and tranquility with which you perform the tea ceremony."

The next day, at the appointed time and place for the duel, the tea master followed this advice. The soldier, readying himself to strike, stared for a long time into the fully attentive but calm face of the tea master. Finally, the soldier lowered his sword, apologized for his arrogance, and left without a blow being struck.

 

[Foxbat]

I can fully accept the idea of mentally overcoming your opponent but I can't accept that, when it ultimately comes to blows, the least skillful with a blade is suddenly the most skillful with little or no training.

 

[Pyan]

if you want a classic and sea together why not try moby dick? as for classics inn general, if the subject matter is away outside of our experience it may be more difficult to establish a connection. Besides that there's also the matter of some styles of writing.

If the Parson found Master and Commander over-wordy, I doubt he'll find Moby Dick an improvement...

 

[Pyan]

I can fully accept the idea of mentally overcoming your opponent but I can't accept that, when it ultimately comes to blows, the least skillful with a blade is suddenly the most skillful with little or no training.

But a skilled proponent has got to that stage by fighting many people that are also skillful, with much experience and practice of their own. Isn't it a possibility that fighting an unskilled opponent is extremely dangerous, simply because you both have no idea whatsoever what they were going to do?

 

[Vertigo]

But a skilled proponent has got to that stage by fighting many people that are also skillful, with much experience and practice of their own. Isn't it a possibility that fighting an unskilled opponent is extremely dangerous, simply because you both have no idea whatsoever what they were going to do?

I used to fence but was never any good at it. Trust me a good fencer could, and did on many occasions, take me out within seconds. I was only 17 at the time and it was always a good way making a cocky little brat like me who was starting to think how good he was realise just how bad he really was! I don't think I ever once got a hit on the best guy in our club!

 

[Danny McG]

I can fully accept the idea of mentally overcoming your opponent but I can't accept that, when it ultimately comes to blows, the least skillful with a blade is suddenly the most skillful with little or no training.

Indiana Jones used the best solution

 

[HareBrain]

Isn't it a possibility that fighting an unskilled opponent is extremely dangerous, simply because you both have no idea whatsoever what they were going to do?

A phenomenon recognised by Douglas Adams and John Lloyd in The Meaning of Liff:

Aboyne (vb.)
To beat an expert at a game of skill by playing so appallingly that none of his clever tactics or strategies are of any use to him.

 

[tobl]

If the Parson found Master and Commander over-wordy, I doubt he'll find Moby Dick an improvement...

two different ways of writing, two different themes, more intensity in moby dick... do i need to go on?

 

[tobl]

I can fully accept the idea of mentally overcoming your opponent but I can't accept that, when it ultimately comes to blows, the least skillful with a blade is suddenly the most skillful with little or no training.

you missed the point,
1 - in accordance to the story honor was prepared to die. fully. her opponnent was a master but fully convinced of his one reason and wanted to live.
2 - honor is a genie, meaning, in weber's world she is genetically modified with greater reflexes and strengh

 

[Paul_C]

I also find it strange also that she constantly saw herself as ugly (but we all know she’s actually beautiful just like the ugly duckling). Why is it most if not all heroines appear to be physically attractive? I think it would be far more interesting to chart the progress of a truly plain woman rising in a man’s world.

I'd rather read about women without their beauty (or lack thereof) being of any particular importance, in a world where men and women are equal.

 

[Parson]

if you want a classic and sea together why not try moby dick? as for classics inn general, if the subject matter is away outside of our experience it may be more difficult to establish a connection. Besides that there's also the matter of some styles of writing.

I have read Moby Dick. It was a literature assignment and it was interesting, but not something I would want to read again. Why would anyone like to read more than was necessary about someone who is unbalanced and dangerous?

-----

Another wordy justification for taking out an expert swordsman follows. This after her own limited practice simply wasn’t enough to be believable either (especially given her physical condition at the time).

I also find it strange also that she constantly saw herself as ugly (but we all know she’s actually beautiful just like the ugly duckling).

As noted, Honor is a genetically modified (although I don't think that has been made clear yet by Flag in Exile) and her reflexes are at least a twitch faster than any non genie. But I think more importantly Honor is a seasoned killer. Not only has she been in more than one duel before, she has been in other life and death situations many times before. Her opponent had only been in ritual combat. That's an advantage which would be hard to overestimate. Also recall her opponent looks in Honor's eyes and the message he sees is "I am death." He should have given up at that moment to save his life.

Taking a break is a fine idea. I took many year long breaks while Weber managed to grind out another story!

As to her thinking she's an "ugly duckling," I think her belief there is based on what kind of a person is a beauty, (someone who is glamorous and loves to party) neither of which would describe Honor Harrington. And remember in the story of the Ugly Duckling, the problem was mainly that the ugly duckling did not fit in the social circle it found itself in, more than any objective description of beauty.

 

[Foxbat]

But a skilled proponent has got to that stage by fighting many people that are also skillful, with much experience and practice of their own. Isn't it a possibility that fighting an unskilled opponent is extremely dangerous, simply because you both have no idea whatsoever what they were going to do?

I am not a swordsman but I know from my own experience that when a person practices a craft continuously, there is a point where muscle memory takes over. I don't believe one of the best on the planet would just stand there whilst his lesser skilled opponent took two expert swipes without reply. Even if his mind didn't react, his body would automatically attempt a defensive parry simply through muscle memory. It might not be successful but I don't accept that he would just stand there against an opponent already badly hurt before the duel even begins.

I'd rather read about women without their beauty (or lack thereof) being of any particular importance, in a world where men and women are equal.

I agree. But in Weber's world of Grayson, men and women are not equal - which is why I said in a man's world.

you missed the point,
1 - in accordance to the story honor was prepared to die. fully. her opponnent was a master but fully convinced of his one reason and wanted to live.
2 - honor is a genie, meaning, in weber's world she is genetically modified with greater reflexes and strengh

Is there a sword gene? Being given greater reflexes and strength does not necessarily mean skill in a certain craft.

I've said enough on my disappointment. I think discussion on character attributes or believability could probably generate a thread on its own.

 

[Danny McG]

This morning's read:-
Cage of Souls by Adrian Tchaikovsky

 

[Danny McG]

This morning's read:-
Cage of Souls by Adrian Tchaikovsky

I'm not too sure about this now I've started it.

I'll plod on for a couple more chapters and then have a rethink on continuing with it

 

[Danny McG]

DNF Cage of Souls, it really didn't suit my reading tastes.
Now I'm having a go at Rabbit Hole by Joe Richter

 

[Vertigo]

DNF Cage of Souls, it really didn't suit my reading tastes.
Now I'm having a go at Rabbit Hole by Joe Richter

It was a bit of an odd one that and took me a while to get into and even then I was a little ambivalent. Not my favourite of his; it didn't seem to know whether it wanted to be SF or fantasy.

 

[Ian Fortytwo]

I'm currently reading The Secret Pilgrim, by John le Carre. It is nice to be reading John le Carre after listening to some of his soliquoys.

 

[Danny McG]

some of his soliquoys

They're like a sausage in batter aren't they?

I've only seen them in fish'n'chip shops down South