Boaz
Happy Easter!
- Joined
- Jul 14, 2005
- Messages
- 6,549
Quentyn Martell was really not going to take no for an answer. Did he really expect to ride a dragon? Yes. In his quest to woo Dany, his main argument was that there was secret pact between their families and besides that they are cousins. The secret pact does not lead anywhere in taming dragons, but Quentyn never lets go of the idea that he and Dany are related and he turns this thought into a reason he might be able to ride a dragon. Quentyn surmises it's in the blood... i.e. Dany's no better, nor worse than Quentyn.
I am not home today and do not have the books with me, so bear with me if I don't quote GRRM and just go from memory.
On the other hand, Quentyn shows up to tame a dragon with a cart full of freshly slaughtered sheep. He attempts to feed the dragons and then mount one. Seemingly a half-baked scheme. But isn't that how the Stark kids all started their relationships with their direwolves? Feed them. Get them used to humans. Associate yourself with beneficence. And somehow you're friends with a direwolf. But Boaz, that's friendship! That's not the ability to dream wolf dreams or ride a dragon or talk to ravens! Exactly. Food is an easy way towards friendship, but it does not provide a supernatural link to the animal. But that is what Quentyn tried to do. He figured by earning a dragon's trust, he could eventually mount it. It's the same with horses... it's just a matter of degrees of difficulty. And since the dragons were raised in captivity, it would be possible to ride one.
I'm not sure what to make of the supernatural ability to control, mentally link, feel, and ride animals is. I don't know if it is different for every animal or the same for all. Varamyr takes the name Sixskins. He can control six different animals of three different species. Three wolves, a shadowcat, a polar bear, and an eagle. All predators of earth and sky. This makes me think the animal control/empathy trait is universal. But then again, I think GRRM goes out of his way to let us know that dragons are a different beast altogether.
I need a name for the animal empathy power. I think, the term warg and warging are used for a human and his/her ability to bond with a wolf. Varamyr and Orell both sensed Jon and Ghost were immediately different from the crowd. I think Varamyr and his mentor, Haggon, use the term skinchanger. If I'm wrong, please correct me. I think I'll use skinchanger. Warg seems associated with wolf... or maybe the ability to control multiple animals.
So I think Quentyn surmises either controlling a dragon is not a special ability or it is. If it is not, then if Dany can do it, then so can Quentyn. If it is a special power, then if Dany can do it and Quentyn is related to Dany, then he can do it too. So Quentyn tried it with poor results.
Apart from food, no one has shown any real magic potion, spell, or gesture to control animals... I mean skinchange. There are rumors out there about Euron's horn. And what was the deal with Weese's dog at Harrenhal? If Jaquen was a skinchanger that would explain it... and also why he was so interested in steering Arya (a fellow skinchanger) towards the House of Black and White.
And all this got me thinking... duh, Quentyn, of course it's a special ability to bond with an animal. The Starks are skinchangers and the Targaryens are dragon riders. Go back to your scorpions and sand snakes. Starks are First Men. Targaryens are Valyrians. Targaryens are the blood of old Valyria. Valyrians. The last Valyrians. Okay, so the Velaryons, Daynes, and a few other families are of Valyrian stock as well. But these are not dragon riders. They arrived in Westeros without dragons. So not all Valyrians were dragon riders. It was a special power among even the Valyrians. Sooooooooo.... the Targaryens do not intermarry brother to sister for religious nor cultural reasons... nor for racial supremacy... they intermarry to keep their power of dragon control. It is in the blood.
And if it is easy for someone to tame a dragon born into captivity... still someone had to be the very first dragon tamer. That person must have been an incredibly talented individual. Talented with skinchanging.
So the two families with skinchanging/dragon control are Houses Stark and Targaryen... and they display these abilities right on their devices. Their very sigils declare their abilities. It is in the blood.
Do other families do the same? House Arryn uses a falcon. Their founding revolves around a hero flying on a giant falcon. I don't see any evidence of giant falcons, but he could have been a skinchanger like Orell. I do not have the books with me, but off the top of my head the following houses use animals to signify themselves...
Baratheon - Stag
Tully - Trout
Greyjoy - Kraken
Mormont - Bear
Dustin - Stallion
Crakehall - Boar
Velaryon - Sea serpent
Lannister, Swyft, Reyne, Lefford - Lion
I have not seen any evidence of skinchanging from these. I think it reasonable that they just took sigils from events in the past or to inspire a certain attitude.
Also, there are a few houses that use demi-humans. Manderly uses a mer-man. Umber uses a giant. I don't have any thoughts in this direction.
And is there a connection that the Martells do not have a beast in their sigil? Then again neither do the Tyrells, Boltons, Freys, Fossoways....
Anyway, in fantasy it is correct to use a phrase like, It is in the blood. In real life, we say genetics. Is there a gene that the Targaryens are attempting to keep alive in their family? Of course they don't call it a gene, they just try to keep their blood line pure. And what about Brown Ben Plumm? He claims Targaryen blood from the wrong side of the sheets a few generations past. Dany's dragons like him. Why Ben and not Daario, nor Jorah, nor BFS, nor Missandei?
So are the hair and eye colors of animal sigil houses like Baratheon, Lannister, Stark, Targaryen, Arryn, Greyjoy, Mormont, Tully, and more continued for thousands of years because of cultural, religious or ethnic considerations? Or are they merely by products of primitive attempts at genetics?
I am not home today and do not have the books with me, so bear with me if I don't quote GRRM and just go from memory.
On the other hand, Quentyn shows up to tame a dragon with a cart full of freshly slaughtered sheep. He attempts to feed the dragons and then mount one. Seemingly a half-baked scheme. But isn't that how the Stark kids all started their relationships with their direwolves? Feed them. Get them used to humans. Associate yourself with beneficence. And somehow you're friends with a direwolf. But Boaz, that's friendship! That's not the ability to dream wolf dreams or ride a dragon or talk to ravens! Exactly. Food is an easy way towards friendship, but it does not provide a supernatural link to the animal. But that is what Quentyn tried to do. He figured by earning a dragon's trust, he could eventually mount it. It's the same with horses... it's just a matter of degrees of difficulty. And since the dragons were raised in captivity, it would be possible to ride one.
I'm not sure what to make of the supernatural ability to control, mentally link, feel, and ride animals is. I don't know if it is different for every animal or the same for all. Varamyr takes the name Sixskins. He can control six different animals of three different species. Three wolves, a shadowcat, a polar bear, and an eagle. All predators of earth and sky. This makes me think the animal control/empathy trait is universal. But then again, I think GRRM goes out of his way to let us know that dragons are a different beast altogether.
I need a name for the animal empathy power. I think, the term warg and warging are used for a human and his/her ability to bond with a wolf. Varamyr and Orell both sensed Jon and Ghost were immediately different from the crowd. I think Varamyr and his mentor, Haggon, use the term skinchanger. If I'm wrong, please correct me. I think I'll use skinchanger. Warg seems associated with wolf... or maybe the ability to control multiple animals.
So I think Quentyn surmises either controlling a dragon is not a special ability or it is. If it is not, then if Dany can do it, then so can Quentyn. If it is a special power, then if Dany can do it and Quentyn is related to Dany, then he can do it too. So Quentyn tried it with poor results.
Apart from food, no one has shown any real magic potion, spell, or gesture to control animals... I mean skinchange. There are rumors out there about Euron's horn. And what was the deal with Weese's dog at Harrenhal? If Jaquen was a skinchanger that would explain it... and also why he was so interested in steering Arya (a fellow skinchanger) towards the House of Black and White.
And all this got me thinking... duh, Quentyn, of course it's a special ability to bond with an animal. The Starks are skinchangers and the Targaryens are dragon riders. Go back to your scorpions and sand snakes. Starks are First Men. Targaryens are Valyrians. Targaryens are the blood of old Valyria. Valyrians. The last Valyrians. Okay, so the Velaryons, Daynes, and a few other families are of Valyrian stock as well. But these are not dragon riders. They arrived in Westeros without dragons. So not all Valyrians were dragon riders. It was a special power among even the Valyrians. Sooooooooo.... the Targaryens do not intermarry brother to sister for religious nor cultural reasons... nor for racial supremacy... they intermarry to keep their power of dragon control. It is in the blood.
And if it is easy for someone to tame a dragon born into captivity... still someone had to be the very first dragon tamer. That person must have been an incredibly talented individual. Talented with skinchanging.
So the two families with skinchanging/dragon control are Houses Stark and Targaryen... and they display these abilities right on their devices. Their very sigils declare their abilities. It is in the blood.
Do other families do the same? House Arryn uses a falcon. Their founding revolves around a hero flying on a giant falcon. I don't see any evidence of giant falcons, but he could have been a skinchanger like Orell. I do not have the books with me, but off the top of my head the following houses use animals to signify themselves...
Baratheon - Stag
Tully - Trout
Greyjoy - Kraken
Mormont - Bear
Dustin - Stallion
Crakehall - Boar
Velaryon - Sea serpent
Lannister, Swyft, Reyne, Lefford - Lion
I have not seen any evidence of skinchanging from these. I think it reasonable that they just took sigils from events in the past or to inspire a certain attitude.
Also, there are a few houses that use demi-humans. Manderly uses a mer-man. Umber uses a giant. I don't have any thoughts in this direction.
And is there a connection that the Martells do not have a beast in their sigil? Then again neither do the Tyrells, Boltons, Freys, Fossoways....
Anyway, in fantasy it is correct to use a phrase like, It is in the blood. In real life, we say genetics. Is there a gene that the Targaryens are attempting to keep alive in their family? Of course they don't call it a gene, they just try to keep their blood line pure. And what about Brown Ben Plumm? He claims Targaryen blood from the wrong side of the sheets a few generations past. Dany's dragons like him. Why Ben and not Daario, nor Jorah, nor BFS, nor Missandei?
So are the hair and eye colors of animal sigil houses like Baratheon, Lannister, Stark, Targaryen, Arryn, Greyjoy, Mormont, Tully, and more continued for thousands of years because of cultural, religious or ethnic considerations? Or are they merely by products of primitive attempts at genetics?
