Fictional Firearm Tech Questions...

-K2-

mƎ kn0w dUm!
Joined
Jun 19, 2018
Messages
1,565
Location
'Merica
You could also implant hi tech, low weight, flexible rechargeable batteries into the body.
Yes, but I thought by having 200 cycle batteries in each 150 round magazine, that means you never need to recharge...Although, the gun itself might draw off a little and store it for--whatever, TBD.

K2
 

-K2-

mƎ kn0w dUm!
Joined
Jun 19, 2018
Messages
1,565
Location
'Merica
What energy density are you assuming for your batteries?
Hehe...enough. That's the unknown future tech I'm just going to say works without explaining it. However, with the reduced draw it has already become as significantly smaller issue.

K2
 

JimC

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2020
Messages
95
At the rate batteries are improving, there might even be enough by the time you need it....

As an off topic aside, the 20 round mags in my T-Series and BR9 are modified MecGar Beretta 92FS magazines. They are 5.5 inches high.
 

The Ace

Scottish Roman.
Joined
Jun 6, 2006
Messages
4,953
Location
Aye. Have a dream !
The Heckler and Koch G-11 actually meets most of your requirements.

It was accepted as the standard weapon for the West German army just before the Berlin Wall came down, and was never adopted, but it fires a 4.73mm caseless round, housed in magazines of 50. Not only that, but three magazines can be stored on the weapon.

 

-K2-

mƎ kn0w dUm!
Joined
Jun 19, 2018
Messages
1,565
Location
'Merica
The Heckler and Koch G-11 actually meets most of your requirements.
It was accepted as the standard weapon for the West German army just before the Berlin Wall came down, and was never adopted, but it fires a 4.73mm caseless round, housed in magazines of 50. Not only that, but three magazines can be stored on the weapon.
An extremely helpful video bringing up points I need to consider. Thanks much for that!

K2
 

-K2-

mƎ kn0w dUm!
Joined
Jun 19, 2018
Messages
1,565
Location
'Merica
Something else I might consider relates to another actual project (here in our home) where all motions in vehicles to dampen forces are used at the same time to scavenge/generate electricity to help recharge the system (that causes those motions to occur).

So, instead of powering a coil at the muzzle of the firearm to grab/slow the projectile with the intention of reducing recoil (the projectile continues on but the gun is pulled forward countering the recoil's back motion)...if I magnetized the rounds (using non-magnetic materials throughout the gun), then as they passed through the forward coil they would generate a minute amount of electricity helping to supplement the firearm's needs. Naturally, most motions that I'd like to dampen I might be able to do so in the same manner.

Another aspect I AM going to use, is unlike the HK above and other caseless designs, I'm going to say...yes, just make up...that with a highly developed propellant I'd not need a massive amount of it surrounding the round. IOW, instead of increasing the round's length and diameter (square or hex or octagon in shape), I'll just stack and bond it onto the tail end like a rocket and make it small. If something forces me to reconsider that size, I'd rather give up 50 rounds and use the center two mag stacks to supply propellant much like a cannon has a round and a charge.

K2
 
Last edited:

-K2-

mƎ kn0w dUm!
Joined
Jun 19, 2018
Messages
1,565
Location
'Merica
90 or 100,000 CUP ?
I've not calculated it (not sure it can be), and can't obviously test it, and considering it will be a variable rate charge (more so with layered grains), I'm not so sure I want to get that deep into it. Some aspects help in the telling of the tale, others, folks can generate the math themselves and work it out.

K2
 
Last edited:

JimC

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2020
Messages
95
I Know what you mean.

9x23 is 50,000 CUP, compared to 9×19 &.357Mag at 35,000.
Fifty thousand is enough to initiate a RUD in an airweight J-frame.
 

chrispenycate

resident pedantissimo
Staff member
Supporter
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Messages
7,285
Location
West Sussex
Back in the late sixties I built a Laithwaite linear accelerator ( yes, a coil gun) and demonstrated that Heinlein got it wrong in TMAHM. We could, from the roof of the union building, project an aluminium teaspoon (and I can't think of a less aerodynamic shape, ustersem togethr in clbut they had the refectory name engraved, so when we collected them again {those that didn't get lost} they could be instantly recognised- Ball bearings went a lot further, but were a lot more difficult to find) past the Albert Memorial, and deep into Hyde Park.

I wouldn't suggest the principal for a pistol style weapon - you're too dependent of length (our former was about two metres of reinforced plastic drainpipe, and achieved arond mach 2.5. If you ran your polyphase generator at a higher frequency- we were running on three-phase 50Hz grid power, and could launch three teaspoons a second - or about twenty ball bearings. Decent fire speed, but feed rate is critical - if they get too close, the magnetic field sticks them together in clusters, which never achieve full speed, and won't fly straight, being unbalanced.

Are you sure you want to go away from chemical propellants? I'm sure we can eliminate casings by using a combustion chamber fed with an explosive mixture - gas, liquid or powder - measured by part of the same mechanism that puts one round at a time in place -All mechanics that could be built by a reasonable artisanal gunsmith. Hmm, I take it you do want continuous fire, not single shot? r perhaps a double trigger for independent shots or crowd clearing?
 

-K2-

mƎ kn0w dUm!
Joined
Jun 19, 2018
Messages
1,565
Location
'Merica
@chrispenycate ; Thanks for adding your experience with this and suggestions. I've already eliminated the coilgun option and moved onto a 'Nano-thermite Layered Electro Thermal Chemical Thermoplastic Elastomer Hybrid bonded propellant.' ATM, since it's workable technology yet not fully developed (publicly), I'll assume a fractional sized bit bonded to the rear of the projectile will do the job.

That reduces a lot of weight (since now the barrel and bolt mechanism will be the only hardened aspects), and the only coil function I 'might' use is an assist for the hybrid bolt (which is also gas operated), a 'refire' option for misfires (if there is no motion from an ignition, the pulled trigger will retry the electrical ignition and if that doesn't happen a secondary bolt ejects the projectile out the barrel), and maybe--debating--using a coil to grab and slow the projectile to speed, but in the process reducing recoil as it would pull the gun forward.

The rate of fire and number of rounds is electronically controlled with a slide switch (p=projectile, A=Automatic fire):
Vertical-Slide Selectable Rate of Fire – 1p/3p-.3A/.25A/.5A/FA based on 2,667 r/m.

Thanks for the input!

K2
 
Last edited:

JNG01

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 17, 2020
Messages
55
First of all, I'm impressed at the precision you have in your development of the requirements of your protagonist's weapon system.

I know you've addressed gas or air powered tech in a few of the posts above, but it does with presently-existing technology appear to fit most of your requirements except for rate of fire and capacity (I'm guessing you don't want your protagonist carrying a scuba tank around).

If you're up for some handwavium, how about vacuum propulsion? A plunger (on rails? magnetic rails?) runs up the barrel ahead of the projectile (low-friction caseless bullet in a low-friction smooth bore?) creating a vacuum that pulls the projectile along (then flips out of the way at the muzzle?) Make it a gatling configuration and you could, in handwavium style, fire it as fast as you like. The only capacity limitation would be powering the magnets.
 

-K2-

mƎ kn0w dUm!
Joined
Jun 19, 2018
Messages
1,565
Location
'Merica
Thanks @JNG01 ; Of the hundreds of details in my near future America pertaining to the environment, language, culture, and so on...even the geological aspects under Philadelphia as it might react to flooding, I try to get it as accurate/realistic as possible to help it seem plausible and to keep it straight.

I agree with gas fired weapons (especially due to the volume of fire let alone the rate), as to a vacuum, it's a clever idea except I suspect you'd have the same problem as you do with air, in reverse. Since air can compress it can also stretch. If you've ever pulled on a sealed syringe or similar you might have noticed the more air in it the farther you can withdraw it. Regardless, I'd have to NOT pull the projectile but a sealed driver/piston instead which pushes out the round (otherwise I'd have to seal each round--adding friction--as it would just draw in air out the barrel's end.

I wanted coilgun technology, yet even that with a lot of handwavium seems out of reach. So, I think what I really need is an advanced propellant, some assistance to overcome the inertial start (most of the pressure build-up is just to get the projectile started moving (see chart on previous page)), and some guesses at advancements to really tailor the charge. It's current tech, just not developed yet (that we know), but probable.

Not exactly what I wanted, but... if the day came someone questioned it, I could point to very real research which is very close (and likely exists in a lab or the military as we speak).

Thanks for taking the time to check out the thread and help out...And, welcome to the forum!

K2
 
Top