Monsters and our lack of them.

[.matthew.]

So that widespread level of belief in the daily occurrence of the supernatural (often with a flip side of divine intervention) doesn't really exist now, and hence folklore-type monsters can't really survive.

And yet, that is the very world that fantasy inhabits. Now, I don't object to the current trends, but I would like to see at least a few fantasy worlds that put us back in the mindset of that time (rather than just using the setting).

 

[Star-child]

And yet, that is the very world that fantasy inhabits. Now, I don't object to the current trends, but I would like to see at least a few fantasy worlds that put us back in the mindset of that time (rather than just using the setting).

Fantasy is for fun, not to revisit shared nightmares like folklore once did for people.

 

[Toby Frost]

Surely there are loads of fantasy settings where the characters are continually besieged by fantasy-type monsters, of which they are frightened and in real danger. I would have thought that a lot of grimdark novels would sit in this area. Warhammer does, or at least used to.

 

[.matthew.]

Fantasy is for fun, not to revisit shared nightmares like folklore once did for people.

So instead we should visit the nightmares of modern day folk instead? It seems we are meant to fear or at least hate the villains in most fiction anyway, and frankly I'd be far more 'scared' of a human character doing evil things than a monster that was born for it.

Fantasy is all about transporting us to another world, and in many cases this world is set in the time period where 'here be monsters'. Why shouldn't the characters react 'realistically' to them?

I would have thought that a lot of grimdark novels would sit in this area. Warhammer does, or at least used to.

Fantasy type monsters maybe, but fantasy type monsters as you have already indicated sit well within the Warhammer 'mythology' which doesn't really have the sort of monsters I'm talking about (it's always screamed quantity and scale). Now, the singular dragon (or one of very few scattered across the world) guarding it's horde and sometimes laying waste to villages would qualify. However, for me I'd still like to read something where there are no-go regions where man fears to tread, but on a very local scale.

 

[Star-child]

So instead we should visit the nightmares of modern day folk instead? It seems we are meant to fear or at least hate the villains in most fiction anyway, and frankly I'd be far more 'scared' of a human character doing evil things than a monster that was born for it.

Fantasy is all about transporting us to another world, and in many cases this world is set in the time period where 'here be monsters'. Why shouldn't the characters react 'realistically' to them?

I'm sure writing a fantasy monster is still possible, but the point is that we don't view "wild beasts" the way people used to, or ascribe mysterious deaths to large, hidden creatures. So the problem becomes describing why the brave swordsman is any more afraid than you would be of a grizzly bear. And, fantasy characters often have access to magical means of combating monsters that you don't, so it is that much harder to fear for their plight, since they aren't really like historical people from that POV.

Which is probably why monsters are still effective in horror - the point of horror is not the protagonist winning in the end.

This topic is a good example of the kind of thing that doesn't seem to work as well in text as it does in other mediums. Monsters work great in visual fantasy, like Attack On Titan.

 

[KGeo777]

"The true horror film (I use the abominable description) has its roots in the fairy tale, and the fairy tale has its roots in the soil of humanity. ...For the audience, this kind of film is a release--a bizarre world outside ordinary experience where the tensions are enjoyable." Boris Karloff

 

[williamjm]

I’m struggling to find monsters in modern fiction that I’d define as such. You have your vampires and werewolves, but they seem more like comic book villains compared to the unique creatures of myth, the true monsters who instead of hiding in the shadows, preyed on towns and villages and were feared by all. These creatures could not be defeated by mere force, and always required a hero to rise, an odyssey to be embarked on, or a great sacrifice to be made.

Out of recent books this makes me think a bit of Naomi Novik's Uprooted where the villagers fear the malevolent Wood that lies on their borders, and while they have some ways to fight against it there is a sense that even their best efforts can merely slow its expansion.

I think the portrayal of vampires varies a lot, there a lot of example of the Buffy style vampires but there are other interpretations that have more of a mythical feel, such as in Tim Powers' The Stress of Her Regard where they can't just be defeated by someone with a sharp stick.

 

[.matthew.]

So the problem becomes describing why the brave swordsman is any more afraid than you would be of a grizzly bear.

I wouldn't go anywhere near a grizzly bear lair

And, fantasy characters often have access to magical means of combating monsters that you don't, so it is that much harder to fear for their plight, since they aren't really like historical people from that POV.

True, but that's part of what I mean as well. There's no reason why magic has to be so 'everywhere' like it is in most fantasy stories. I'm just as guilty as this in my limited writing, so I'm not saying it would be easy to achieve at all.

Monsters work great in visual fantasy, like Attack On Titan.

Wouldn't really class them as the monsters I was looking for. Besides, a lot of the drama comes from fights between the human factions.

Out of recent books this makes me think a bit of Naomi Novik's Uprooted where the villagers fear the malevolent Wood that lies on their borders, and while they have some ways to fight against it there is a sense that even their best efforts can merely slow its expansion.

Read it, really enjoyed it too. Gave Spinning Silver a try as well, but while it was very mythical it felt more recent folktale than I really wanted.

other interpretations that have more of a mythical feel, such as in Tim Powers' The Stress of Her Regard where they can't just be defeated by someone with a sharp stick.

I might have to look that one up then