1.09: Star Trek: Picard - Et in Arcadia Ego: Part 1

ctg

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Following an unconventional and dangerous transit, Picard and the crew finally arrive at Soji's home world, Coppelius. However, with Romulan warbirds on their tail, their arrival brings only greater danger as the crew discovers more than expected about the planet's inhabitants.
 

ctg

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There has been a long time speculation about the organic technology able to make the space trip. We know that viruses are raining down from the sky due to our studies. Our minds has imagined wonderful things, but it's still a stretch of imagination to encounter a space-flower and it taking down an advanced vessel. You could assume that we have moved away from the Dilithium crystals and Chief Engineers, to more delicate era.

What I don't get is how? How an organic matter can develop so powerful energy field that it'll cancels electronics?

I thought it was the flower, which turned off the implant in JL's head, because in my mind, he has one and that is the thing Borg's and ExBorg's identify. But still, being able to render a Borg cube inoperable is a thing that we have no seen before. We have seen them demolished and cut in pieces, but not completely incapable of doing anything.

Oh, how the mighty has fallen...

It surprised me to find out Artefact in ruined state, but still running, and even having ExBorg's lurking in its great halls. We have never seen them doing a completely atmospheric entry or even assimilating whole world. Just heard about it. But when you think about it, either they use teleporters for all business or then the Borg Cube is capable of doing an atmospheric entry.

To be honest in my mind it would be more logical if they had dedicated vessels for that business and the space operations are handled by the Cubes. In that Pitch Black 3 they showed Necro's using planetary landers for the invasion business. It's more sensible idea than using one Cube for everything. After all one of them cannot assimilate billions of subjects, because the numbers are too high.

Hence I assume they have some sort of harvesters for that business once the resistance has been eliminated.

In theory one cube could fight 200+ strong Romulan armada and win, because back in the day the mighty StarFleet was in such a trouble everything they appeared. Today, after time has passed and Romulan's has had their fingers in the pie, I doubt it'll happen.

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At first I thought why can't they be something other than humans, but as Picard's crew ventured in and encountered the organic synths I was beaming. More so when Old Man Data walked in, as that too made sense on this last voyage. None of us however could figure out that he was alive, but in a totally different form.

Almost everything that they were practising made sense. The only problem I had was with the mind melt. If the biomechanoids are able to do that then surely they are able to do other psionics. In fact, with the rate Data's offspring should be able to learn, teaching them techniques in a breakneck speed wouldn't be a problem.

It's just I don't get why to abandon everything without putting up a proper fight is beyond me. Sure, we learned that the message that had driven the Romulans mental was actually intended for the synthetic lifeforms. It was a twist that none of has guessed. Yet, it makes sense. The whole manufactured solarsystem with the artefact on its surface is kind of more plausible, when you link synths into it. What I don't get is the message... how they were able to do that? To see the definite future instead of the fluctuations?

How is it possible?

It took me till the end to figure out that the Old Man Data was actually Doctor Soon. I believed he was dead. When he made the twist and accepted synth's plan over Picard, I was reminded about the classical trek. How it too had end up in these sticky situations that are on border of good and evil, and how often the participants could see the truth because they were too close to see the bigger picture.

Thing is, are there really synthetics gods other than the Borg, and why the Borg hasn't heard about them before? Why nobody has?
 

Blake00

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So I've just done Ep9.. yeah hmm.. I feel like I should have felt more and connected more with this episode but just didn't.. back in my first comments I predicted that there was someone else behind these androids and it wasn't just Bruce Maddox and I was right. I was just wrong about who it was lol. I predicted Lore, but it turns out there's another generation of Soong, another brother of sorts to Data (its not the Dr Soong you're thinking of @ctg who created data as remember he died in data's arms a super old man after Lore attacked him). When Dr Soong Jr Jr Jr Jr Jr whatever (remember there was the one in the eugenics wars ep of Enterpise too, all played by Brent of course haha) walked out the music didn't seem to change much, it was very fast, and he just took off into dialogue straight away.. the whole delivery felt wrong (which I suspect is exactly why you didn't sort of know who he was till the end of the ep too ctg, they just didn't give us/the audience time to process what was happening did they?).. I should have been like WOOOOOWWW.. but instead I was like.. oh.. okay.. cool I guess.. as it was nice to see Brent back.

Then something really really stupid happened.. Soji's mum or whatever you wanna call her, an earlier android model and seemingly some sort of leader there has somehow taught herself to do Vulcan mind melds.. because you know she likes Vulcans n stuff. Yes I kid you not.. an android that just magically learned telepathy because she likes the aliens that can do them. Are you freakin kidding me???.. stupid f****** bloody writers.. omg!! I mean Data did a vulcan neck pinch in TNG but that was a nerve pinch that presumably just requires a lot of strength hence why no one else ever did it. But android learning an alien races telepathy as a hobby???.. arrggghhhhh

Anyway she melds and sees the vision.. now she's corrupted by it too.. possibly kills that chick and frees (all sexually lol) Nerek or whatever the hell his name is and is gonna 'ET call home' and bring an android alien invasion exterminate everyone thing to stop the massive Romulan warbird extermination fleet that is somehow just out there despite the fact that most of the romulan survivors seem to be refugees living in squalor camps and no one knew about the Zhat Vash. But hey maybe its the surviving romulan fleet being manipulated by the Zhat Vash. I don't know.. we see the commodore has apparently left her rather important Federation spy/plant position and is now commanding an entire romulan fleet.. bit of a jump but yeah sure.. whatever..

Oh and how could I forget that they somehow grew giant flowers that can fly through space and drag down spaceships and borg cubes.. giant flowers bigger than cities and that fly into space.. grown by maddox in his lab.. while one of his android daughters was busy taking up Vulcan telepathy as a hobby..

It really is just like the new star wars films.. why do writers these days treat us with no respect and think that we're so stupid that we'll follow anything.. sometimes its so dark you think it's not suitable for children (eg Icheb eyeball rip) then other times like this where we're expected to take giant leaps of faith over plot holes, technical gaffes and bad writing like a child would..

Thanks to covid-19 the Melbourne Formula 1 race was cancelled and in the giant slots that were allocated to what would have been the tv race coverage they filled with old episodes of TNG, VOY and even some TOS.. so I thought why not and sat there watching them.. and my god.. the universe.. and the writing.. there's just so much more intelligence behind them..

We live in an age where people that grew up watching these scifi shows and films is now old enough to get into hollywood and create their own spin offs, remakes and sequels to these great old shows. All they had to do was bring back the same quality of writing and acting and we'd be living in a golden age. However instead of feeling like I'm watching actual sequels I just feel like I'm just watching fanboy films/eps that are filmed on hollywood sets with big budgets instead of Dad's shed with some toilet paper rolls, mops and bed sheets for props lol.

Anyway.. I seemed to be more relieved that there's one episode to go in Picard than I am excited to see what happens next with the story. Sort of just want it to be over so I can move on again. I didn't even feel that way about Disco (well maybe a bit in season 1 lol but not season 2). To feel that way about a Star Trek show really sucks.. especially as normally I'm the super tolerant scifi obsessed guy defending stuff like this to the haters.. yet here I am becoming one.. but a couple of threads keep my interest still to see this thing out and probably watch future seasons too lol.

Dr death is helping Dr Soong Jr Jr Jr Jr Jr whatever with that Golum so maybe it will be Data. I just hope I.. feel something.. when he appears cause that's meant to be the pay off for all this surely lol.. Apparently this neuron thread thing stuff talked about back in ep2 means some of data's memories can be restored but some memories would not really be him would it. So it makes me think how on earth can these writers really bring him (the full Data we know and love) back and can they do it in a way that isn't stupid lol. Which then makes me think maybe they won't bring him back and this is as good as it gets lol.. but hey todays writers love recycling old stories and rearranging them (ST Into Darkness lol) so if Soji's evil mum can mind meld then why not just do a Star Trek 3 and mind meld Data backed up memories out of B4 and into a new body.. I might even tolerate that nonsense if it leads to datas return lol.. but plugging in a usb cable like Data did in Nemesis seems like a better way haha.. hell maybe that's what they're gonna do haha.. i dunno lol..

Will also be interesting to see how Picards brain disorder is dealt with too.

Oh and one of my mates is convinced that Picard is an android because you see him being 'put together' in the show's intro, so he's counting down to the 'big reveal' lol. We all laughed at him but hell with this show any crazy cr*p is possible haha. So I dunno about that theory but the convo between Dr death and Dr Soong Jr Jr Jr Jr Jr whatever about transferring human consciousness across into androids (like the actual Dr Soong already did with Data's mother, although the writers probably don't remember that lol) being close plants an interesting seed on this subject that I wonder what it will lead to (otherwise why did that scene happen?). Eg Picard is prob not an (failing) android now but maybe they'll stick him into one before his poor human brain gives out haha.

Either way.. weeks ago I was telling you guys that I liked the show but that I was still needing to see more to really decide. Well now I've seen like 90% of the show and I can say I don't love it, I don't hate it, it has bits I like, it has bits that annoy me, so I'm just somewhere in between all that sticking with it to see what happens with Data and & Picard.
 

ctg

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Either way.. weeks ago I was telling you guys that I liked the show but that I was still needing to see more to really decide. Well now I've seen like 90% of the show and I can say I don't love it, I don't hate it, it has bits I like, it has bits that annoy me, so I'm just somewhere in between all that sticking with it to see what happens with Data and & Picard.

I get it and I get what you are saying, but you have to remember that this is Picard's show, not the NG. They couldn't put him in the first person role, even though it would have suited this story much better, but in a sense it gives out more complete picture about Captain Picard. Especially seeing him as an old man, with nothing to lose and the universe is against him. Even the time is against him, if we are to believe the brain anomaly prognosis.

I suspect that the Borg's inserted an implant that essentially copies his soul, his memories and his experience in a chip that can be then transferred to a new Locustus body. In the SF terms that would make sense and it would act as Queen's Last Gift. But we know that he cannot remain in the role forever, because of the physical limitations that his advanced age has brought into the picture. Nevertheless, like I said before, I think that Sir Patric Steward likes to play to role more as he played the Old Man Xavier in Logan.

We also have to remember that Sir Patric is in the executive role, and the scripts contain scenes that makes his feel comfortable and show the ST universe as he sees it.

You talked about the ST Utopia. It's just when you look the whole picture, there never really was such a thing. It was an illusion that the classical ST brought into the small screen and not so much in the bigger one. The movies up to the NG era were more like the books, and their stories really engaged the audience. I personally have seen the whale rescue one at least ten times.

So from Sir Patric's perspective everything is working and there is more than a dash or a sprinkle of fantasy in the play. In a way it enhances the story, as you can see in the Soji's Older Sister getting corrupted scenes. It is an old classical twist, and it plays well for the story. Also it goes well with the Old NG movie storylines. Not so much with the JJA's new ones.

To me personally, what they are doing with the Picard is absolutely fine and I am going to be interested on seeing the next one as well. I even suspect that it is going to show the synth gods, and bring forward the Destroyer stories. The problem with the vision is that it correlates with what we have seen, therefore verifying the prophesy. Both ways.

I also suspect that Romulans and StarFleet has no choice but to unite against this new nemesis.
 

REBerg

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As much as I love the resurrection of Jean-Luc, I will be disappointed if this boils down to nothing more than another tale of creations vs. their creators.
True, the fully organic lifeforms, particularly the Romulans, are determined to wipe out the synthetic organic lifeforms. That gives the synthetics the absolute right to defend themselves. Calling upon the artificial "gods" to not only defend the budding new synthetics but destroy all organics makes the synthetics no better than the Romulans.
Entities capable of rearranging stars to custom-make solar systems should be able to monitor emerging synthetic species and swoop in to rescue them whenever natural organics became an existential threat. Wouldn't wiping out all organics be the equivalent of killing the golden goose?
 
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ctg

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Wouldn't wiping out all organics be the equivalent of killing the golden goose?

I think it depends on a point of view. They might prefer some species over others, but inherently they know that they cannot really mess with the mother nature and make everything theirs.
 

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I also suspect that Romulans and StarFleet has no choice but to unite against this new nemesis.
Sure. We organics have got to stick together. ;)
Perhaps the Borg, as the organic-inorganic hybrids of the Universe, will end up being the peace brokers in the conflict. :LOL:
 
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ctg

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Perhaps the Borg, as the organic-inorganic hybrids of the Universe, will end up being the peace brokers in the conflict.

That would be a twist. I have to say I quite like the idea. It's dark and it fits the picture. What could we offer them to secure the deal? Damn, again we need Ferengis.
 

Brian G Turner

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The opening sequences to this episode were superb, but afterwards it all seemed to fade to a one-dimensional and cliched set up. The reveal of Dr Yoonian Sung was good, but after then it all seemed a little too simple and ham-fisted.

Soji's original form is just another boiler-plate figure, and it raises the question of who were those people pretending to be Soji and Djah's mother if they weren't there? And why was Dhaj told to find Picard but Soji had to learn to trust him? And how does something in the eye destroy a synth?

Also, the blonde scientist is a murderer - everyone seems to have forgotten that. She killed in cold blood to stop the synths developing - now she's going to help the leader of the synths with no chance of becoming a cold-blooded murderer again?

So, a dramatic framework around a meh setting. Am looking forward to seeing the Borg cube going against the Romulan fleet, though. :)

Also, there's a wildcard at play in the ship docked at Deepspace 12 - either it's there to stop Picard, or else there are old members of his crew on board trying to help him - Worf and Geordi come immediately to mind.
 
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Dave

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It took me till the end to figure out that the Old Man Data was actually Doctor Soon.
(its not the Dr Soong you're thinking of @ctg who created data as remember he died in data's arms a super old man after Lore attacked him). When Dr Soong Jr Jr Jr Jr Jr whatever (remember there was the one in the eugenics wars ep of Enterpise too
Yes, he actually introduced himself as Altan Inigo Soong, and claimed to be the biological son of Dr. Noonian Soong, no Jr Jr Jr Jr involved. Though it is unlikely that three generations would look so exactly alike, especially since genetic engineering was banned long before the building of androids.
es I kid you not.. an android that just magically learned telepathy because she likes the aliens that can do them. Are you freakin kidding me???.. stupid
Yes, I also baulked at that idea.
why do writers these days treat us with no respect and think that we're so stupid that we'll follow anything..
My bolding, but again I have to disagree with you that this kind of fantasy is something new in modern Star Trek. Many of the original series episodes had "magic" that even Arthur C Clarke wouldn't accept as indistinguishable from advanced technology. And of course it brought us "Spock's Brain." Only in TNG did the stories become more of a science show. Even then, we still got a lot of "technobabble," and plenty of "gee, whiz" nonsensical sci-fi. Remember when Troi became pregnant by an alien entity and gave birth to a mysterious star child?
Also, the blonde scientist is a murderer - everyone seems to have forgotten that. She killed in cold blood to stop the synths developing - now she's going to help the leader of the synths
This also seemed inconceivable.
Also, there's a wildcard at play in the ship docked at Deepspace 12 - either it's there to stop Picard, or else there are old members of his crew on board trying to help him - Worf and Geordi come immediately to mind.
I'd like to see that. Who wouldn't? Unlikely though!
Or, perhaps everyone's favourite TNG character WESLEY CRUSHER!!
Er... not really!
So Picard is caught between two opposing sets of extremists. Sticky situation!
He is, and unfortunately, any solution is going to be sticky and rather unbelievable. Way beyond the threat posed by the lovable androids, we have just been informed that a mysterious extra-galactic society of non-organic beings with a hatred of organic life is on it's way to attack the Milky Way. This sounds like NOMAD or V'GER once again. I'm doubtful that even Picard could do a James Kirk and talk them into self-destruction.
 

Blake00

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Blake00 said:
why do writers these days treat us with no respect and think that we're so stupid that we'll follow anything..
My bolding, but again I have to disagree with you that this kind of fantasy is something new in modern Star Trek. Many of the original series episodes had "magic" that even Arthur C Clarke wouldn't accept as indistinguishable from advanced technology. And of course it brought us "Spock's Brain." Only in TNG did the stories become more of a science show. Even then, we still got a lot of "technobabble," and plenty of "gee, whiz" nonsensical sci-fi. Remember when Troi became pregnant by an alien entity and gave birth to a mysterious star child?

Oh yes I remember that one.. and the Crusher ghost sex ep.. and the troi mum & worf son in the mudbaths ep.. and the list goes on for every trek show..
So yes there are many episodes in classic Trek that are so bad haha. However they were usually surrounded by a lot of good episodes and overall a much better show.

Picard being only 10 episodes long means their stinkers need to be really few and far between and sadly that's not been the case IMO. 3 episodes I thought were garbage, 4 were so so leaving 3 that were pretty good. Hopefully season 2 fares better as most Trek shows didn't have the strongest of first seasons..
 

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