Doctor Who (38) 12:05- Fugitive of the Judoon.

[nixie]

I'm not sure about this one, the reintroduction of Captain Jack to me was pointless. When Graham was transported to Jack's ship I thought they must have decided to mix it up a bit but then Ryan and Yaz also got transported to the ship. Wish they'd lay of the transportation it's getting rather tiresome.

Is everyone we meet with prior knowledge of the Doctor going to assume Graham is the Doctor?

I'm still trying to process how Ruth can be the Doctor, I'm thinking it has to be a parallel universe that has somehow over lapped and that is why neither has any knowledge of the other.

 

[Caledfwlch]

The problem is, in series 2,the Doctor clearly stated that Timelords exist in only one reality, the main who one, the reality of Petes World, where Lumic created his own race of Cybermen was timelordless...

All I can think is something happened, that every or most Timelords forgot a previous life, so the first Doctor was not the first but genuinely believed he was.

Maybe it will turn out there are or were 2 gallifreys our doctors gallifreys being a copy in some way.
It's a real Bobby dazzler this one!!!

 

[TheDustyZebra]

I'm sure that the appearance of Captain Jack is part of something bigger, but if it's not, I mean, Captain Jack!

The Ruth Doctor reminds me disturbingly of River Song.

 

[Narkalui]

I'm guessing this episode is all just teeing up the series finale. All will be revealed...

 

[Matteo]

Well that was much better than anything else I've seen in the current run of this Doctor.

There were some ruthless aliens - including the Time Lady at the end - where characters got bumped off (i.e. a more serious tone).

Some nice misdirection about "The Fugitive".

And of course the Ruth Doctor. What the hell is that about? I don't know - and I like that I don't know. Is it connected to the Timeless Child perhaps? Are we talking parallel universes? Is she actually a future (re)incarnation - despite what she said? I didn't twig until Ruth actually said who she was - though when she broke the glass I did think it looked like regeneration energy.

Hopefully, this is a sign of things to come.

Yes, Captain Jack was a bit unnecessary but nice to see him back.

Oh, and to answer @nixie - yes; I think it's a heavy-handed way to say "look...the (male) Doctor is now a woman!!" Bit irritating really.

 

[Glaysher]

I heard the Ruth Doctor may be pre the First Doctor and the Doctor's mind has been wiped of earlier regenerations. This would be a belated attempt to explain the Brain of Morbius.

 

[Dave]

I'm not sure about this one, the reintroduction of Captain Jack to me was pointless.

I'm guessing this episode is all just teeing up the series finale. All will be revealed...

Yes, I think there is some kind of new 'story arc' being set up for a big series finale, involving multiple realities, Torchwood and the return of the cybermen.

I heard the Ruth Doctor may be pre the First Doctor and the Doctor's mind has been wiped of earlier regenerations. This would be a belated attempt to explain the Brain of Morbius.

You could be be right. That lack of canon always used to bother me, but there has been so much else wrong with the Dr Who canon since then that I kind of gave up about it. The other thing it does is that it puts an end to all those people who have been constantly saying, "The Doctor can't be female because she's never been female before!"

 

[Matteo]

I heard the Ruth Doctor may be pre the First Doctor and the Doctor's mind has been wiped of earlier regenerations. This would be a belated attempt to explain the Brain of Morbius.

But surely that wouldn't explain Brain of Morbius? Because if the Doctor's mind had been wiped, there would still be no images of pre-Hartnell Doctors - though I suppose it could be explained away (the Doctor doesn't remember, but it's in his brain).

I know it's an anomaly but it's the only episode that has ever suggested more Doctors and since then the 12 regenerations has been fixed (especially in the last episode of the Matt Smith run).

In any case, I'd be surprised if they're going this route.

 

[Narkalui]

What if she's a time lady who's not The Doctor but just calls herself The Doctor. Perhaps on Gallifrey there's a sort of an anti-establishment political group who modelled their ideology on The Doctor. Maybe they all believed The Doctor was dead and when The Master turned up and killed them all, one of them escaped and decided to call herself The Doctor...

 

[Caledfwlch]

Narkalui - the problem with your theory is that "our" Doctor scanned Ruth Doctor, as did the Judoon Platoon near the Moon, and the result was that both Ruth and 13 are indeed both the same Timelady, the thought of Clones did occur to me the problem is the whole scene where 13 and Ruth start speaking identically, saying the same tji gs because they have the "same brain"

 

[Narkalui]

Well we were celebrating a birthday yesterday so I'd had a few. Must have forgotten that bit...

 

[Vladd67]

Yes, I think there is some kind of new 'story arc' being set up for a big series finale, involving multiple realities, Torchwood and the return of the cybermen.

You could be be right. That lack of canon always used to bother me, but there has been so much else wrong with the Dr Who canon since then that I kind of gave up about it. The other thing it does is that it puts an end to all those people who have been constantly saying, "The Doctor can't be female because she's never been female before!"

The problem with canon is that nu Who has always just ignored anything from the original series that contradicts the new. As for putting to an end the people complaining that the Doctor can’t be female as she’s never been female before, I doubt it suddenly waving their hands and saying look look see he was female before he just forgot just isn’t going to cut it with some people.

 

[Bagpuss]

I'm still trying to process how Ruth can be the Doctor, I'm thinking it has to be a parallel universe that has somehow over lapped and that is why neither has any knowledge of the other.

There is an old fan theory that could explain it.

Basically, the theory goes that when the Time Lords caught up with the Second Doctor at the end of The War Games, then instead of immediately forcing him to regenerate into the Third Doctor, they instead co-opted him into working for the Celestial Intervention Agency, which is the Time Lords' black-ops squad.

In this scenario, Ruth would be an additional regeneration between the Second and Third Doctors. In some ways that fits what Ruth says about having a job she didn't want and why she's on the run after quitting said job. The reason Thirteen doesn't remember her is that presumably the Agency caught up with Ruth at some point, wiped her memory of her time at the Agency and regenerated her into the Third Doctor. The reason Ruth doesn't remember Thirteen is that Thirteen is Ruth's future, which I think is what Ruth says in the episode.

The theory has semi-canonical status in that there are a couple of novels and audio plays which take the idea and run with it, although the Doctor in those is the Second Doctor. It's also how a lot of fans explain The Two Doctors, the Colin Baker serial where the Second Doctor appears to be working for the Time Lords. The theory has a couple of problems, not least that the Doctor would have run out of regenerations at the end of the Tenth Doctor's run, rather than at the end of Eleven's time. But I'm sure a suitably hand-wavy explanation could be produced to get around the inconsistencies. After all, what's one more retcon at this stage of the game.

I heard the Ruth Doctor may be pre the First Doctor and the Doctor's mind has been wiped of earlier regenerations. This would be a belated attempt to explain the Brain of Morbius.

The problem with the pre-Hartnell theory is that the exterior of Ruth's Tardis is shown to be a police box. However, the Tardis only got stuck as a police box after it left Totters Yard at the end of the very first episode. Prior to that it wasn't stuck, a point which I think Susan makes in the first episode.

 

[Danny McG]

What next?
A Doctor in a wheelchair?
A blind Doctor?
Maybe even a precocious 10 year-old Doctor?
How about a non humanoid Doctor - Doctor Who Doggy? (The kid's will love that one)

 

[Luiglin]

There's a potential gap between 2nd and 3rd Doctors.

Do a search for the Season 6B theory.

It would also match the retro Tardis design.

EDIT and I've just realised @Bagpuss covered it far better earlier on in the thread.

Personally, I'm still hoping for the Rani or maybe Romana? That gold R on the necklace seemed a bit too prominent for me.

 

[nixie]

One of the wild theories running round my head is The Doctor's Daughter, would explain the readings, wasn't she cloned from him?
Doesn't explain the tardis.

I'm leaning towards @Bagpuss theory.

 

[Luiglin]

There's also the potential for a regenerated version of Susan, the First Doctor's "Granddaughter". Although never directly referenced as a Time Lord, it's always been assumed she was.

 

[CupofJoe]

What next?
A Doctor in a wheelchair?
A blind Doctor?
Maybe even a precocious 10 year-old Doctor?
How about a non humanoid Doctor - Doctor Who Doggy? (The kid's will love that one)

Back in my formative years, when these things really mattered*, the original Dr Who regeneration was supposed to have a doctor younger than the last. They got as far a Peter Davison and chickened out. I'd like to see a teenage Doctor [with the Wisdom of a thousand years and a dozen lifetimes] not allowed in because they didn't look old enough...
* It was about then I knew there were only going to be 9 regenerations, then it became 12 and now they've not got a number that I know of...

 

[Bagpuss]

wasn't she cloned from him?
Doesn't explain the tardis.

She was cloned from him. However, Jenny had her own independent personality and I think she even referred to the Doctor at one point as "Dad" (That's from memory, though, so I could be wrong). Anyway, you're right it doesn't explain the Tardis. Jenny left in a ship she nicked from the colony. She didn't leave in a Tardis.

Personally, I'm still hoping for the Rani or maybe Romana?

Honestly, when I realised that Ruth had to be the Time Lord in hiding, then I thought she was going to be the Rani as well. I was a bit disappointed when she wasn't. I did for a minute wonder whether the Rani might have used the Chameleon Arch to change herself into the Doctor and then used it again to turn herself into a human, and then I realised I was probably over-thinking the whole thing.

 

[REBerg]

if the Doctor's mind had been wiped, there would still be no images of pre-Hartnell Doctors -

A pre-Doctor Who Doctor?