Persuasion

I think in the novels where this happens, and where I liked it, it wasn't explicit. It didn't boil down to a character changing their mind -- that wasn't the plot. That's probably why I don't really remember explicit examples, either.

Hm, I think the last novel that comes to mind where something like that happened was Rebecca Roanhorse's "Trail of Lightning". Maggie the loner is convinced to work together with someone. I think the way it worked was that it wasn't an actual, general persuasion.

On the one hand, she didn't really notice she was persuaded. Only in hindsight. Things just happened to her. --> which would mean, for the sake of writing/scene-setting, to not work with beliefs, but with concrete situations.

Secondly, she wasn't persuaded to not be a loner, but only to come along for this-or-that. Again, specific, concrete, local -- instead of an argument about not being such a longer, or on the benefits of collaboration.
 
Reading Azoraa's post has jogged my memory of a novel where I thought persuasion didn't work.

I thoroughly enjoyed The Dagger and the Coin series by Daniel Abraham, but in the last book, The Spider's War, one major character is persuaded to act against his erstwhile allies in a scene which was widely ridiculed in Goodreads reviews. Although I could see what Abraham was driving at with an emphasis on the other characters' actions, so the reviews were a little unfair, plus he'd laid the foundation for the character to suspect the allies so what happened wasn't wholly out of the blue, I still felt the scene and its consequences lacked truth. It was as if he'd painted himself into a corner, needing the character to act in one way, and simply couldn't see how else to achieve the outcome.


Geder always blames others for whatever goes wrong in his life or plans, so when the war he's started for the spider cult starts to go against him he's ready to blame the priests, especially as he's already begun to suspect what they're telling him. Cithrin, his one-time lover, and others who have been actively fighting against Geder know they have to kill all the priests, and he's the only one who can set it all up. To help persuade him, Cithrin arranges a meeting and she and the others hug him. OK, they do talk and explain things as well, but it's the hugs which are important, and even though Geder is shown throughout to be needy and wanting affection, it does make the whole scene ripe for ridicule.
 
Recently I watch the TV program The Yorkshire riper and now I'm watching The White House Farm . At the hart of both police investigations was a chief constable in charge , who had predetermined the situation, and was not happy until the investigation proved it. In both cases they were wrong . I wounder how many people have been imprison,or worse ? because of a closed mind?
I was a train driver for some years and I have meet pople trying to commit suicide and some that were successful.
I believe you need a good reason to be on this bridge . Most of the people I met felt guilty about what they where doing. Apologetic and willing to step back, but often became abusive when they realise you had stopped them .
This is known as unconscious bias, something that every human suffers from and if you think you don't, then you are deluding yourself. These can only be addressed by acknowledging them yourself.

They can though, be recognised and pointed out by others.

Adding this to character development can be fun :)
 
Great thread!!

Needless to say, trying to help people change their minds is something I worked with all of the time before I retired. And my experience is that people don't so much "change" their mind as they open their mind to other thinking, often because someone they love has a different idea. Strong relationships are one of the surest ways to find yourself growing and changing your mind.

One of the best literary examples I can think of off the top of my head is "The Girl with Dragoon Tattoo" series. At the end of the Steig Larsson's 3 books series in "The Girl Who Kicked the Hornet's Nest" Lisbeth Salande the MC? of the book makes a very out of character choice, but it makes sense because she's developed a relationship with Mikael Blomkvist. It's not that she has changed so much as that she has grown.
 
Dale Carnegie's book, How to Win Friends and Influence People, has a lot of useful information on persuading and manipulating people. Personally I find his tactics a little repulsive...but mostly because they actually work, if you can pull it off properly. I'd be offended if I thought a friend was trying to manipulate me so coldbloodedly--but there are situations where I can understand knowing that sort of skill being very necessary. Situations like writing a book with a character who's good at manipulation.

(Being a writer is such a convenient profession. It's literally an excuse to know anything.)

The kinds of tactics Carnegie recommends--they're like pulling out a hefty weapon. For instance, I'd be seriously insulted (not to mention frightened, surprised, and seriously concerned) if a friend of mine pointed a gun at me to get me to wash the dishes. All he needed to do was ask! But if I was actually trying to rob his car, or indeed commit suicide, I wouldn't be at all surprised (I'd still be frightened and concerned, only for different reasons).
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
Astro Pen Writing Discussion 10
Lafayette Critiques 2

Similar threads


Back
Top