How Chinese Sci-Fi Conquered America

[DannMcGrew]

How Chinese Sci-Fi Conquered America (Published 2019)

The translator Ken Liu has done more than anyone to bridge the gap between Chinese science fiction and American readers.

tinyurl.com

 

[hitmouse]

I don't live in the USA, so I may be wrong here, but isn't "conquered" a little bit hyperbolic?
Having said that, some Chinese SF (Cixin Liu in particular) is amongst the best SF I have read in the last decade.

 

[DannMcGrew]

I don't live in the USA, so I may be wrong here, but isn't "conquered" a little bit hyperbolic?
Having said that, some Chinese SF (Cixin Liu in particular) is amongst the best SF I have read in the last decade.

Maybe it's an American usage but I think here "conquered" means won admiration or respect. A bit hyperbolic perhaps but a fairly common usage in the US press.

And, yes, Ken Liu has provided some excellent reading.

 

[Star-child]

If Three Body Problem had been posted here for critique by a seemingly English speaking author, it would have been panned for ir lack of "character driven" writing, info-dumping and myriad other sins against the well guarded conventions.

I think it gets a pass because we convince ourselves that some sort of cultural exchange is going on, rather than the more obvious conclusion.

 

[Elckerlyc]

I don't mind kicking against the fences of well guarded conventions. But whose conventions are you talking about? The Chinese may have total different opinions and conventions about literature.
But, truth be told, I did found the writing of Three Body Problem lacking. The story itself was very interesting.
Funny enough, what I remember now best is the chain-smoking of so many characters in the novel.

 

[Star-child]

The Chinese may have total different opinions and conventions about literature.

This would be pertinent if you and I were Chinese. But we're Westerners reading a book translated into our language. It isn't that there is some sort of incomprehensible cultural barrier - just an emphasis that we are in the practice of rejecting IF Westerners wrote the same we would reject it.

Either Three Body is good reading for us, or not.

 

[BAYLOR]

If Three Body Problem had been posted here for critique by a seemingly English speaking author, it would have been panned for ir lack of "character driven" writing, info-dumping and myriad other sins against the well guarded conventions.

I think it gets a pass because we convince ourselves that some sort of cultural exchange is going on, rather than the more obvious conclusion.

The book was apparently a success because there are more of his books on the shelf.

Also wasn't recent movie The Arrival based on one of his stories?

 

[Vince W]

I've read the Remembrance of Earth's Past trilogy and while it started strongly it got progressively weaker and by the end was rather unsatisfying.

Arrival (2016) is based on a story by Ted Chiang. I haven't read the story but the film is rather good.

Now the film The Arrival (1996) staring Charlie Sheen was not based on any story I'm aware of but is vastly underrated IMO.

 

[Star-child]

The book was apparently a success because there are more of his books on the shelf.

The book is a success because many people enjoyed reading it.

Also wasn't recent movie The Arrival based on one of his stories?

Nope.

 

[Danny McG]

Three Body Problem was a DNF for me, a load of overrated tosh.
If sections of it had been posted in Chronicles in 'critiques' by one of us as the writer it would have mercilessly ripped to shreds

 

[hitmouse]

I bloody loved 3bp. Hang on Danny, didnt we have exactly this conversation a couple of months ago?

 

[Azoraa]

I also loved it. I guess if you're good enough you can do anything. But yes, I also found the characters often pretty flat, especially in the third book. Still, read them all, and found them quite refreshing.

As for the cultural barrier: as a cultural anthropologist, I would argue that sure, there might be such a barrier, and you might miss things as a reader if you're not Chinese. On the other hand, you'll most likely always miss hints and context in books to some extent: either because the other is from a different country, language, county, city, different gender, age, rural or urban background, has a different profession than you, or a different job, or a different opinion.
Or, as David Graeber (2015: 28) phrases it:
"What’s more, if one goes slightly further and argues not just that reality can never be fully encompassed in our imaginative constructs, but that reality is that which can never be fully encompassed in our imaginative constructs, then surely “radical alterity” is just another way of saying “reality.” But “real” is not a synonym for “nature.” We can never completely understand cultural difference because cultural difference is real. But by the same token, no one Iatmul, Nambikwara, or Irish-American will ever be able to completely understand any other because individual difference is real too."

Anyways, that's why I wouldn't put too much emphasis on the cultural barrier.

 

[soulsinging]

Maybe it's an American usage but I think here "conquered" means won admiration or respect. A bit hyperbolic perhaps but a fairly common usage in the US press.

And, yes, Ken Liu has provided some excellent reading.

I was going to say that if we're going to fault headlines for being hyperbolic we're going to run out of articles to read. Otherwise someone will need to explain to me how we managed to fend off that Beatles invasion in the 1960's without firing a shot!

In any event, a lot of the titles mentioned here have been on my radar for a bit. I think there are a few reasons for this, the first being that China is an ever-bigger player on the international stage and Americans are increasingly curious about a massive country of billions of people about which many of us know very little. I think also readers are looking for "new" and "fresh" takes on their genres, which is encouraging them to seek out new perspectives and approaches to them. Lastly, there's a numbers argument that it's really unsurprising a county with that many people is producing some striking talents, and has just been lacking someone like Liu, who has the skill to both identify worthy/strong works and translate them effectively.

I waffle on how I feel about reading in translation sometimes given the inherent possibility of translators shaping the work in a way the author never intended (whether they mean to or not), but it's generally outweighed by the excitement of new voices putting their touch on established ideas and tropes.

 

[hitmouse]

I was going to say that if we're going to fault headlines for being hyperbolic we're going to run out of articles to read. Otherwise someone will need to explain to me how we managed to fend off that Beatles invasion in the 1960's without firing a shot!

Well, duh. It was because, like, all you need is love, man.

 

[soulsinging]

If Three Body Problem had been posted here for critique by a seemingly English speaking author, it would have been panned for ir lack of "character driven" writing, info-dumping and myriad other sins against the well guarded conventions.

I think it gets a pass because we convince ourselves that some sort of cultural exchange is going on, rather than the more obvious conclusion.

Maybe. I've also seen all those sins leveled against writers like Asimov that helped create those conventions. I think it has more to do with tastes having changed and certain authorial flourishes (or lack thereof) that were given a pass because they're remembered fondly or came first are no longer forgiven by readers that spent a lot of time in workshops having "show don't tell" drilled into their heads. I think it's why we're starting to see more self-published stuff go mainstream (Hugh Howey, Michael J Sullivan), because the keepers of the gates in publishing houses are too focused on how the story is told at the expense of whether it's a story worth reading.

 

[KGeo777]

It's the NYT and they are known for their bias -- quite hostile to European cultural expression. They go for a demoralizing word phrasing whenever possible.
It is certainly possible that Chinese writers may conquer western media company publishing--the publishers simply prevent western writers from getting placement (something Lovecraft and Capote bitterly complained about).

 

[Star-child]

Maybe. I've also seen all those sins leveled against writers like Asimov that helped create those conventions. I think it has more to do with tastes having changed and certain authorial flourishes (or lack thereof) that were given a pass because they're remembered fondly or came first are no longer forgiven by readers that spent a lot of time in workshops having "show don't tell" drilled into their heads. I think it's why we're starting to see more self-published stuff go mainstream (Hugh Howey, Michael J Sullivan), because the keepers of the gates in publishing houses are too focused on how the story is told at the expense of whether it's a story worth reading.

There is nothing really wrong with "show don't tell" and the other paradigms recommended to new authors. Asimov was not the world's greatest literary genius - Foundation would likely be a better novel if written by a modern author. But Three Body is likely receiving the same 'break' as a foreign language written book we extend to classic SF.

My main point is - why do we do that? Is it some sort of paternalism, like when we view and appreciate "tribal" art? Or is this style of writing perfectly valid, and we need some sort of excuse to be open to reading something good, if unconventional?

Personally, I think the way those books are written is very effective in depicting social movements and long periods of time minor exposition. Not because it is more realistic, but because the author derails the notion that history or sociology can't be dispensed with in a manner similar to technological exposition. Meanwhile, Western authors like Neal Stephenson violate the rules of exposition to many people's delight. The real lesson is that a talented author can break nearly any rule if they do it well.

 

[Ashley R]

The question for me is, What does conquer look like?

So my response is that this is hyperbole, typical of sales copy.