Swordfight Scene (1460+ words)

[Margaret Note Spelling]

Thanks a bunch, @The Big Peat! That was a really detailed run-through of what I wrote, and your comments were very insightful. Although the lack of setup for this scene is not really my concern at the moment (and I guarantee it will all make sense in context), the lack of emotion is definitely a big problem with this. Most of it, unfortunately, has to do with my uncertainty about the specific flavor of Nyssa's character; I'm coming close, but she's not entirely worked out to my satisfaction yet.

Just a couple of thoughts. The pommel strike was intended to be a fairly definite finishing blow, depending on how much power Nyssa would have potentially been able to have behind it (a hypothetical, since she clearly didn't use as much as she could have). The decision from the audience doesn't take much debate--Nyssa probably won.

As for the standing still/moving about dichotomy, the idea was mostly that moving around would potentially tire you out rather more quickly, while just standing motionless and braced allows you to make a more unexpected strike (of varying power depending on the circumstance and fighter). The idea was not so much more power to the strike, as more adrenaline-backed energy to the fighter that the other has spent in moving around. (And more energy can be a good or a bad thing depending on how good you are at controlling it.) For the other, more momentum, more time moving around, definitely gives you more power behind a blow--but also more time for your opponent to see what you're doing, and move to meet it.

Anyway, that was the theory. I'll have to run a few practical tests myself to see if it works out.

(Also, I have never been kneed in the back of the head. I bow before your greater experience...and hope never to share it. )

 

[The Big Peat]

Cool beans then. Didn't get the sense of Nyssa winning from the text but fair enough.

Re moving around... unless the fight's gone on a long time, keeping you feet moving isn't going to cost your energy. You're not moving that fast after all - brisk walk at most - because you have to keep in balance. If the guy was throwing a lot of attacks - particularly attacks that hit some sort of opposition - then that would tire him. But moving... no. Not an expert, but done enough to feel pretty confident about that.

As for the idea that staying still gives you more time to read what the other guy is doing... it's not a huge issue, I'm not looking for ultra-realistic combat and people doing unusual things is fun, but I've never seen it done. Pretty much any boxing, MMA, martial arts, fencing, whatever... pretty much never see anyone stood still. And when sparring myself, if the enemy is moving then you're moving. Priority one is don't let them circle around for an easy blow to your side, priority two is stay in balance while moving. Moving in a circle yourself is easier than crabbing around a fixed point there. And it doesn't mean more time to see your opponent is doing (unless you're so green you're likely to trip over yourself) and if your smart, your motion never takes you out of a stance when you can't easily sidestep or parry.

 

[Margaret Note Spelling]

That does make sense. I'll really have to think about it some more.

 

[The Judge]

Second, can you slash somebody's head off with a sword? I imagine a really good blow could kill them, but how big of a swing would you need for that?

I didn't reply to this before, but when I was reading it the other day I agreed with everyone else that decapitation isn't at all easy. Anne Boleyn was executed by an expert swordsman from France which rather suggests there wasn't someone here who could have done the job as well, and certainly there were occasions when the axeman messed up horribly -- and that's with a docile victim with his head literally on the block. However...

I had a trip round the Gurkha museum in Winchester on Friday (yep, such an exciting life I lead...) and one of the dioramas showed an incident in some C19th war where an unwitting chap poked his head out of a window, a Gurkha caught him by the hair, whipped out his kukri, and cut off the chap's head. (The diorama just shows the hair-catching with the kukri being unsheathed, fortunately.) I rather thought there might be an element of exaggeration there and the chap just had his throat comprehensively slashed.

But some other reading around I've been doing confirms this wasn't an isolated incident. In a 1964 article in the New York Times the writer refers to the battle of Wadi Akarit in Tunisia and the aftermath of the Gurkha's "bloodcurdling night assault on the towering Rass‐ez-Zouai rampart. Severed, startled-looking, Teutonic heads littered the rocky defiles beside recumbent headless bodies" and relays another incident told to him of "a hand-to‐hand fight in a wood in the mountains near Florence. A small Gurkha with two lazy swings of his kukri decapitated two large Germans." (He goes on: "Their headless bodies collapsed on him and a third German came at him with a bayonet. Although prone, the Gurkha lopped off the German's right arm with a third slash and when last seen was trotting along beside a stretcher .and patting the terrified German solicitously with his left hand while still swinging the kukri in his right hand.")

OK, it's not a sword they're using, but a kukri. And they're Gurkhas, of course, which makes a great difference. (The article refers to them as "gently homicidal" which is the neatest summing up I've read of them!) But nonetheless with the right weapon in the right hands it's evidently not as far-fetched as I'd imagined.

 

[HareBrain]

Decapitation by sword was also part of seppuku. From the Wikipedia article:

The most common form of seppuku for men was composed of the cutting of the abdomen, and when the samurai was finished, he stretched out his neck for an assistant to sever his spinal cord. It was the assistant's job to decapitate the samurai in one swing, otherwise it would bring great shame to the assistant and his family.

 

[Pemry Janes]

Not easy is not the same as impossible. But I don't think Gurkas go for decapitations as their standard way of taking out an opponent. And the seppuku example, the victim is not merely stationary but actively aiding the attempt. Or supposed to, anyway.

 

[Star-child]

Sword decapitations are not uncommon - you can even watch them on youtube as public executions in Saudi Arabia. And a famous swordsman and samurai general managed to decapitate himself after his army lost. But it requires a sword that is both very sharp and relatively heavy bladed - like a scimitar or samurai sword. I doubt anything much lighter than a broadsword could accomplish it for a European weapon.

 

[reggiesaun]

I think the scene would work better with rhythm...

We don't know the characters so really all I'm getting are 'steps.' Maybe figure out what the underlying conflict is btw the characters. If they don't have any, then one of them is going through something (its a story after all). Mirror that conflict with the beats of the sword fighting. Use dialogue to break up the description of fighting. Use inner monologue.

Becasue the whole thing is one long fight, the fight itself IS NOT YOUR CONFLICT. It's now just a setting. Provide me a real conflict and I'll feel tension. Add specific STEPS of the battle almost as icing on the cake. I don't care about every block and perry, but if one of them "Matrix's" out of the way with an impossibly skilled move, TELL ME.

Just my thoughts. Cheers!

 

[Fogged_Creation]

Go Nyssa!

I think it was a great fighting scene! Although I'm still learning how to describe intense scenes like this, I do have some experience with sword-fighting specifically.

So, considering the situation was just simply a demonstration, ending up being a serious sword fight with wooden swords (Love that by the way!)
Let's ignore the drama and emotion of both these characters. Let me then explain a bit about sword fighting. The first rule, that of which It seems they were both doing well is with the first basic steps of sword fighting: "stances", it's an important part of the process, and a more experienced swordsman would often change their stances depending on the current split second situation. A relatable example is when you are sparring with a highly experienced sword fighter, and all while you are somewhat of a noob who doesn't know how to parry well. His goal would be to hit you as quickly as possible before you can even think, always lunging at you aggressively and whatnot, and you'll always lose. Because you don't know how to defend against it.

What I've taken from the example with the experienced swordsman is to show you that the sword fighter tries to take advantage of as many weaknesses as they have with their opponent. Which is one of the reasons why some professional fighters start defensively first just to look at how their opponent functions with their instincts, playing in the waters and taking in a good feel and understanding of how his opponent fights.
The good word for that I believe would be to "Know your enemy" Which most certainly incurs a great advantage. And so if Nyssa was a quick learner, then she could have quickly adapted to how he fought and possibly have taken advantage on some of his weaknesses, like the part where he unnecessarily flourished, depending on the distance she could have easily punished his action with a quick feint and smack, defeating him within 200 milliseconds.

It's also important to keep eye contact of your enemy if you can see it rather than looking at his blade, staring at the eyes will give many good hints on where to expect the next blow. Feints are also very powerful and annoying to deal with. It makes you think, and if Nyssa was a Really good swordswoman, she could quickly make a feint in the opposite direction and strike him where he least suspects it, the important part is the secrecy of where the blade hits, if she knew how to do that, then it would be near impossible to know where her next strike would go. It's all about striking quick and true, being deceptive with her strike as she makes a feint that turns into an attack on the opposite side of his unprotected body within a tenth of a second, it's over at that point. And Yes I know, for those who know about Japanese samurai sword techniques, this is something that they do when they keep their sword in their scabbard and pull it out into an unexpected attack, ignoring how you see it in the anime, it truly is an effective move to quickly pull the sword out and swing it around like flowing water right into the neck of their foe. That is a perfect example of weapon secrecy, I don't think that's the name of the technique though but you know what I mean.

And there's plenty of other things like conserving energy yourself and doing techniques to outlast and tire an enemy quickly while you are left still breathless. Techniques that demoralize and have an enemy flinch out of their instinct (Unless they know how to manage themselves, they won't flinch as easy). Oh oh and, also sweeping strikes! If you are a master of swords, you can dance with your blade and handle multiple opponents at once, bringing uncertainty and toil as you make quick work of them. But I think my sword fighting rambling should take a pause until the next post if you are curious to know the details perhaps!

That said, the more experienced is the more likely winner in the end.

Otherwise, I did stumble upon you here, It is good to be talking again Margaret! Hope that you are managing well this year.

 

[Joshua Jones]

I don't have much to add on the writing critique; others have already mentioned the points I would make as is. I'll make a couple comments on the technical aspects of the fighting though, as this is something I practice relatively extensively.

Regarding the decapitation question, assuming a relatively skilled user, it really depends on the sword being used and the intended attack motion. In general terms for medium sized swords, blades designed to hack (such as the kukri @The Judge mentioned, machete, most broadswords, etc.) will have a much easier time at severing a head than one designed to slash (such as the ******* sword you are using in this scene). A hack is a direct cut straight into a target (think chopping carrots or something), whereas a slash is more of a drawing motion at the point of impact (like using a steak knife). The katana is a bit of an exception, but this is primarily due to the quality of the sword and care given to it. For a hand and a half sword, you'll probably hit spine on one slash, but unless you are lucky enough to hit between vertebra, you probably won't go all the way through. That said, striking bone on a slash to the neck is still a devastating injury which more than likely will result in a rapid death...

Regarding the movement, their body movements didn't strike me as terribly unrealistic. Truth be told, what caught me for this sort of fighting was the lack of circling occurring. Footwork is essential to a fighter; some traditional European schools would not allow someone to touch a blade until they spent 6 months working on footwork. Circling is the test of footwork. More precisely, if you start circling your opponent, you force them to do the same (its easier to maintain balance while moving in stance than pivoting), where you gauge their ability to remain balanced on the move. If they misstep or loose balance, that is your opening to attack. If not, you slightly change your step to become out of rhythm with theirs so you can try to catch them mid-step. The goal either way is to try to catch them when their feet are less firmly planted, and therefore less able to defend effectively. Further, keeping your feet in motion helps mask when you make a move to attack.

On that note, when Nyssa overengaged, the issue in the fight wouldn't be her getting too close but throwing herself off balance toward him. A standard way such a move is punished is by a quick circular side step toward the opponent's back, which puts Robert in this case behind Nyssa. Needless to say, having your opponent behind you is generally frowned upon by those who survive more than about 2 seconds with an armed opponent behind them... but this could be used as a good feint if she anticipated this move by him and was only feigning being off balance... So her first move would be a big step and a slash from the right side diagonally downward with her balance shifted forward, and he would respond with a circular side-step forward and to her right. If she is actually balanced here, all her weight would be on her right foot, which is now far forward, and she could swing her left leg forward and turn her body toward Robert, which would put her to his left side and out of danger from his weapon. If I were her here, I would slash at the back of his knees here and try to take him to the ground/hamstring him. He would disengage if he knew what was good for him to avoid this and put some distance between them. Now this is a very difficult move for Nyssa to pull off; if she isn't an expert swordswoman at this point she won't be able to do it.

Also, regarding close combat, your instincts are right that ******* swords are not especially helpful here. Pommel strikes and stabs are about all one could do that close up, and with the dagger being sheathed, that is basically out of the picture also. Knee strikes and leg sweeps are the techniques of choice here, with punches and elbows being a close second.

The real trick is conveying this in a way that is engaging to the reader. The good part is your writing style is clean, so your strength is in the difficult part! Thanks for sharing this!

 

[Margaret Note Spelling]

Thanks so much for all that! It's truly amazing to be able to hear from people like you guys. You take the time to bring your varied expertise to bear on subjects I'm only beginning to explore. I'm in awe. That's probably in my top five favorite things about writing--having valid excuses for researching and learning unusual things. And you were right here to help! To actually be able to find out what I did right and what I did wrong, with something I had no genuine idea about (and with all the things that I should have realized and didn't) is a treasure. So thank you--all of you.