Has the show spoiled the books? -- WARNING: Final Season Spoilers --


The Anime King
May 1, 2019
A Land Down Under
I thought it might be good to discuss just what we think the differences will be.

And pulling this into here from another thread because spoilers:

He told the writers the three "what the f*ck" moments,

The 3 big moments weren't all that shocking, really. Or at least the first two weren't.

And they weren't all to do with the ending, just so everyone knows. ;)

Two of the "three" were actually from way back in the show, which just haven't happened in the book.

This article here outlines it: George R.R. Martin revealed 3 huge shocks to Game of Thrones producers

It's an old article, but still relevant. So only 1 was to do with the ending, and while we haven't been told which shocking element it was, it is probably Dany killing everybody in Kings Landing. Either that or Jon killing Dany.

I spotted this direct quote from D&D at the end of the article though:

“People are talking about whether the books are going to be spoiled – and it’s really not true,” Benioff said. “So much of what we’re doing diverges from the books at this point. And while there are certain key elements that will be the same, we’re not going to talk so much about that — and I don’t think George is either. People are going to be very surprised when they read the books after the show. They’re quite divergent in so many respects for the remainder of the show.”

So even the showrunners admit they diverged greatly from the books and that it will be quite different.

And from another, more recent interview: Game of Thrones season 8 showrunners interview: ‘This is where the story ends’

How much of this season is from discussing the ending with George R.R. Martin?
[The concern] used to be that the books would spoil the show for people — and luckily it did not, for the most part. Now that the show is ahead of the books, it seems the show could ruin the books for people. So one thing we’ve talked to George about is that we’re not going to tell people what the differences are, so when those books come out people can experience them fresh.
WEISS: It’s kind of nice for him because — obviously through necessity we’ve pulled out ahead — the show has become so different [in recent seasons] that people will have no way knowing from watching what will or won’t appear in the books. And honestly, neither do we.
BENIOFF: We don’t. And George discovers a lot of stuff while he’s writing. I don’t think that final book is written in stone yet — it’s not written on paper yet. As George says, he’s a gardener and he’s waiting to see how those seeds blossom.

At the end there, Benioff suggests that GRRM might actually change the ending for his books.

Of course, all of this might just be damage control to mitigate the fans disappointment at the show spoiling the books.
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Well, apparently he told the writers this is how it ends.

What gets me is no one is defending the right of a writer to control their creation. If his message was that no one wins the game that’s fine. I have a message that an existentialist hero is a great - if a little lacking in active - Thing. Not enough have read it to give a damn but if they had I’d say it’s still my choice to write my book, not the one the fans want.

He told the writers the three "what the f*ck" moments,
and we know that Stannis-Shireen, and Hodor are the first two, the third is clearly Jon killing Dany.
Also I don't think it is a coincidence that
Bran is the first POV character in the series, so that seems legit.
Face it, we know how it ends.
It definitely spoils in that surprises are already unveiled. On the other hand parts that are significantly different may lead to us being even more surprised.
I don't think the show has spoiled the books, regardless of the fact that we now know how the major points of the books end. the book has so much additional info to tie up that we have no clue about.

and the devil's advocate in me is of the view that the books' ending can't be ruined because GRRM ain't ever going to finish them...
I'm only on season six but I've been unable to miss the spoilers. I started a thread back in 2005 about who would rule Westros, I said then it would be one of two people, nice to know my prediction was correct.

I have just trawled through the GRRM forum to make sure I wasn't imagining saying it:oops:
I'm only on season six but I've been unable to miss the spoilers. I started a thread back in 2005 about who would rule Westros, I said then it would be one of two people, nice to know my prediction was correct

so you picked no one? after all Bran only rules 6 sevenths of Westeros and Sansa rules 1 seventh... :giggle:
IMO the show has covered the main plot points and revealed the ending of these, so I'm satisfied. But it does underline my previous frustration with the books that we were following characters who didn't engage with the plot, namely the confrontation between House Stark and House Lannister. Dany always seemed a distraction that went nowhere, and in the end that was true. Similar with so many others who played supporting roles or enjoyed one-off plot point moments.

My traditional view of a story is that you follow the characters most actively engaged in that, not follow every character who happens to be touched by it. But, c'est la vie - at least I know the ending and that's enough for me. My curiosity is satisfied. :)
I predict that GRRM has changed his mind about the planned conclusion of the books. I don't think he had the series planned out to the last detail anyway, based on what he has said about his writing process.
The TV series may have had an effect on what he planned to do with the books.

I know he told the show runners about his planned ending, but that was years ago now, and only in very broad terms anyway.
Maybe it is the planned ending but I wouldn't bet on it.

There was changes from the books, Robb's wife never attended the wedding, we speculated about her being alive and pregnant, we didn't get to see uncat, Sansa never married Ramsay Bolton, there are other differences as well, possibly the king will be same but how they get there, who lives, who dies could be completely different.
I definitely think there will be huge differences in the story. It will still be worth reading the books, even if Bran still ends up on the throne.
I don't have any problems with the series ending, I think it's perfectly reasonable. However, for me it doesn't really seem to fit. GRRM has said in the past that he's aiming for a "bittersweet" ending and, I don't know about anyone else, but this ending doesn't really feel that bittersweet to me.

The other thing is that if you look at the clear historical parallels that Martin has established in the books for his line of succession to the Iron Throne, then this ending doesn't fit that pattern either. Equally it doesn't really fit the mythological subtext Martin seems to be using. So, if the ending of the books follows this ending, then it's a massive deviation from the fore-shadowing that Martin has gone to some length to establish. So, I'd be surprised if the books end like this.
I thinks it's safe to say that in the books the Night King will be replaced with a GIANT ice spider. I'll be disappointed in anything else.
Two years ago? 2017? There may have been a meeting but the canonical meetings were in Santa Fe in 2013 and 2014 if I recall.
Recently GRRM has equivocated a bit about the ending:


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