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Game of Thrones: 8.05 - The Bells

ctg

weaver of the unseen
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Is it a game of thrones, if the throne's is smelted to slag? Obviously they're going to have to move the capitol to somewhere else, since the King's Landing is in ruins. To be honest, the writers have made the ending predictable and it kind of follows GRRM dark style, without leaving much of hope for the original characters. In a way I love this situation, because it resembles SW's Last Hope. If Dany is going to be the Dragon Queen, she surely has shown her place, and what she thinks about people who betrays her, or try to kill those she loves. But how much love is left in her chest, and are all of them going to turn against her, instead of embracing dark times ahead by gathering strength and plotting for a coup to happen in better time?
 

L.L.Lotte

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Okay have saw it.

My predictions- the Lannisters are all still standing and that family saga will play out next time. Jaime’s arc might yet be saved!

Dany has been predicted and this isn’t poor character development but actually the bittersweet element. Varys said it: you don’t know what side of the coin you’ll get. She has an inherited mental illness and tried so hard to fight it. It’s a tragedy and will play out like that, I reckon. Arya still has a queen to kill and she is pissed


Jon could win. He will not take the throne.

My money is moving to the North and Sansa. She’s the only sane one amongst them.
True, we didn't see Cersei and Jamie actually die. It is possible they could have survived, although that would be a stretch.

I'm not entirely sure Sansa is any more sane than the rest of them after what she's been through. The experiences have shaped her into a strong adult now though, but I can't really see her being a nice leader at least. She would be very strict and unforgiving with people. Not as bad as Daenerys, but not as good as Jon.

Or Bron. Bron for the throne! Huzzah!
Oh, this I would actually love to see! :LOL:



*edited because somehow quotes messed up. I promise I did not plagiarise, Jo! :cautious:
 

The Big Peat

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There will always be people who don't understand plots and details, even if they are the most obvious ever. That's what these discussion threads are for, so that people can discuss and explain bits that each other might have missed.
That many people not getting it isn't a failing on behalf of the viewers, its a failing on behalf of the writers. Always has been and always will be.

And you can put me down in the "Expecting Dany to go full psycho" camp. That doesn't change my belief that if they failed to sell the viewers on that being the natural progression of the plot, they messed up and they messed up bad.
 

Al Jackson

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Is it a game of thrones, if the throne's is smelted to slag? Obviously they're going to have to move the capitol to somewhere else, since the King's Landing is in ruins. To be honest, the writers have made the ending predictable and it kind of follows GRRM dark style, without leaving much of hope for the original characters. In a way I love this situation, because it resembles SW's Last Hope. If Dany is going to be the Dragon Queen, she surely has shown her place, and what she thinks about people who betrays her, or try to kill those she loves. But how much love is left in her chest, and are all of them going to turn against her, instead of embracing dark times ahead by gathering strength and plotting for a coup to happen in better time?
We did not see the throne room , seemed from one shot from E5 preview that Tyrion was looking at the Red Keep , the tower was gone but seemed the 'throne room' which is below it is there.
When Dany started here rampage I figured , since she had a clear shot, she would go after the Red Keep first, so that odd.
Seems she was gona scorch KL but I did not expect her to cauterize it!
It Is disappointing that there is not more nuance in the story right now , almost if D&D were impatient to get the show out of their hair.
 

L.L.Lotte

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It Is disappointing that there is not more nuance in the story right now , almost if D&D were impatient to get the show out of their hair.
I think they kind of are. They are under pressure to wrap things up in a very short amount of time. That's going to negatively affect the story.
 

Al Jackson

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Some fan made up a plot line I liked , both Rhaegal and Drogon are alive at the battle, Jon still not riding Rhaegal, during the pause at the bells , someone with a hidden scorpion kills Rhagal…. then Dany goes Able Sugar. I like this because it would explain also how the Iron Fleet got whipped out, with two dragons.
 

Mr Orange

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Well, that was intense...

firstly, I thought it was a well directed episode. I really enjoyed it and have am okay with most of what happened. the complete destruction of king's landing was not what I expected but I thought it was very GOT. also, I don't know how anyone can really argue that Dany's actions come as a surprise. she has always been a brutal ruler - burning the dothraki, crucifying the slavers, executing her enemies etc. and she has been getting worse in her inclinations, but up to now they have mostly been suppressed by those around her. she has been promised the iron throne as her birthright, this has driven her and now she realizes there's no such thing as a birthright in westeros for her. I don't think she's mad though. just a megalomaniac. this is shown in her justification for the slaughter of innocents, because of the good it will do to all future generations. it's the same argument Tyrion uses for his sacrifice to save king's landing. well, similar at least. anyone who is surprised by the turn her arc has taken hasn't been paying attention (I don't think) or has been intentionally ignoring it. having said that, up to point where she did go berserk, I really was not sure she was going to. I was picking that maybe one of the archers might actually fire an arrow (I mean, seriously what were they doing all this time) and take her out.

I also was happy(ish) with the dragon use. it felt like dany is no on the same wavelength as the dragon and because of that they worked perfectly well together to wreak destruction. I do think at least one of the scorpions should have clipped a wing or something. but overall, this is pretty much how effective I would expect huge, slow, cumbersome crossbows to be against a dragon.

Jamie's arc was satisfactory to me. it wasn't the end I was hoping for him, but how many characters in the last 8 seasons have had their arc finish in a way that was unexpected? it's what GOT does.

I was expecting the Golden Company to have more of an effect on the battle too, but because of that, I like the fact that they didn't.

euron popping up by the boat was pretty silly. in fact, how did Jaime even get down there? isn't that outside the walls? and why didn't he just go there to begin with?

and boy jon is dumb. what did he think was going to happen when he invaded king's landing? the slaughter of innocents was always going to happen, even without dragon fire. it shows he has only fought against the dead (oh and Ramsey, but everyone hated him and the Northmen weren't going to pillage Winterfell).

a couple of notes on the acting: Emilia Clarke has been very good this season (and last) with showing Dany's turning/progression into tyrant. I have been super impressed, especially seeing as it seems to be completely at odds with her true character. and Lena Headley has been great as Cersei too. for I think the 3rd time since GOT started she once again made me feel sorry for Cersei in this episode.

Edit: for the record I actually liked this episode better than the long night. and I am looking forward to see how they tie thing up in the next episode. especially as to whether Sansa and Bran will have any more input.
 
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Al Jackson

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One surprise I hoped would happen , that I thought might happen, was Dany would be taking out Euron's ships , I think some had Scorpions, as he is distracted trying to get a bead on Drogon , and he does, but his ship is rammed by Yara , who eventually kills Euron. At least have Yara involved in the battle on the water.
 

Venusian Broon

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Very doubtful that could ever happen. I think people are hoping the show will be just as complex with its secrets/twists as the books were. IMO, without the source material of the books to go by, the writers of the show aren't really up to the task of doing such big twists -- unless GRRM told them to.
betting rumoured to be based on leaked info....but we'll see next week. Possibly just frenzied misinformation ;)

But the dragon is the problem. Without Daenerys to control it, what would happen? And would the dragon just sit back and let Arya kill Daenerys? It's not like there is any way left to kill a dragon.
What's wrong with having a wild dragon? One assumes they were like that originally - unless they were specifically constructed for the Valyerians.

And no, there's loads of ways to kill dragons. Just because Daenerys dodged hundreds of scorpion bolts on her mount, doesn't mean that there could be a bolt out there with Drogon's name on it to just neatly kill him off. But there's more.

The first dragon was, I assume, taken down by magic (and a good throwing arm). I don't know how far the TV series has diverged from the book but there are other possibilities hinted at. The faceless men have infiltrated the citadel, for reasons we don't know, but they are clearly working with the maester obsessed with Dani and Dragons. So perhaps they are searching for a way to kill dragons as part of the plot to assassinate Daenyrus? Tyrion mentions a book with a title like 'killing dragons' so there is a hint that such knowledge exists.

Then there is Bran's vision of a Stark making arrows from a weir wood tree and that he used it against dragons. This more obviously magic-based, I feel.
 

anno

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So, for me enjoyable but...
Jon is great when he fights dead stuff,put him in front of living people who bleed and he goes to pieces,his narrative arc has been sh*t and I suppose to his credit he's lost his throne,his purpose and most importantly his North - and he's a Targaryen!
Danni was always going to go batshit crazy from stage one it's kind of her heritage.
Worst for me is,apart from cramming into 6 episodes,is Tyrion, the most important character is now useless and largely overlooked,his scheming,drinking,shagging days well behind him. I think they have effectively written him out of the last few series and if he enters the water followed by a mast again I'll punch somebody.
The saving grace of the whole thing was the Mountain/ Hound face off,which was done reasonably well and referenced the appalling eye gouge
 

Cat's Cradle

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I'm digging this season, and in part it's because I know this will be the end of a TV show I've loved dearly. I thought Ep 5 was great. I'm a bit sad that many storylines/character arcs do not seem to be fulfilled, or aren't given as much time/detail as I had hoped (given the depth of plotting/character development in the first 6 seasons), but I recognized in season 7 that I will have to look to the books to get the full story, and I've just been enjoying the spectacle - warts and all - these last two seasons. The books will come, eventually I think, and meanwhile I'm catching up on reading them in anticipation of WoW coming out (by early 2020, I'd guess).

Also, even if Tyrion is killed in a coming/possible confrontation with Daenerys, there may still be a Lannister heir to the Tywin bloodline out there - perhaps Jamie and Brienne's child? (Just a guess.) I can see where Ep 6 will be bittersweet for the viewers, as well as the characters. I'll miss the show greatly.

ps - Gendry for King!! :)
 

L.L.Lotte

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Just reminding people, that while this will be the end of these character's stories in the Game of Thrones, it isn't the end of Game of Thrones. They are doing the prequels after all, so we will get more stories in this world. ;)


Had a thought. I'm sure both Jon and Tyrion are thinking "Varys was right" about now. They should know by now, Varys is always right... :giggle:
 

ctg

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The writers have crammed a Walter White-esque descent into a few pages of script.

When Arya shuts Dany’s green eyes forever next episode, and Game of Thrones finally ends, we will be witnessing the end of a show that botched the character arcs of many of its best characters. Viewers will wonder what could have been.
Why 'The Bells' is the worst Game of Thrones episode ever

Wired was really upset.
Redemption arcs in the real world are very rare indeed, and only go so far. The Hound didn't change his stripes; he walked into his revenge knowing it would be his undoing. You can run from what you truly are, but it tends to eventually catch up to you. The madness of the Targaryens has finally caught up with the Unburned, as the city she came to rule has now been destroyed.
Game Of Thrones season 8 episode 5 review: The Bells
Den of Geek wrote a beautiful review.

Game of Thrones' penultimate episode has ruffled quite a lot of feathers since it debuted last night, and it looks like even Rotten Tomatoes is being affected. At the time of this writing, last night's episode, "The Bells", sits at a 54% on Rotten Tomatoes.

This makes "The Bells" tied for the worst-rated episode of the entire series' run, with Season 5's "Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken" also earning a 54%. The "Critics Consensus" for the most recent episode, which tries to summarize what the reviews are saying, reads as follows: "Death, destruction, and the deterioration of Daenerys' sanity make "The Bells" an episode for the ages; but too much plot in too little time muddles the plot and may leave some viewers feeling its conclusions are a little unearned."
Game of Thrones: Latest Episode Had Lowest Rotten Tomatoes Rating in Series History

The quality of Game of Thrones' narrative began to deteriorate in its previous season. What once was complex story sprawled across multiple seasons became new narratives often introduced and resolved within a single episode.
Game Of Thrones Final Season Just Isn't That Good

The only real question remaining here is, "When did Game of Thrones become so predictable?" While the Last War at King's Landing was visually impressive (unlike the all-too-dark Battle of Winterfell before it), there were very few surprises which the show had previously been built on. Is it because the showrunners ran out of books from George R.R. Martin? Is it because they're trying to rush things to a conclusion? Did they write themselves into a corner and now they're just taking a linear story approach to get out of it?

No one here is asking for a happy ending. It's not fun to watch the peasants of King's Landing get slaughtered as they reach for their children hopelessly. Game of Thrones have never been known to show mercy or provide joy. It's shocking and, in Episode 8x05's case, was produced in compelling cinematic fashion. However, the political nature, the unpredictable story beats, and character conclusions (even if you loved to hate them) which built the show seem to be taking a back seat in a race toward the finish line.
a bonus
 
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Al Jackson

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Not sure where Yara was agreed, but what happened to Brienne?
Get a grip woman and slap a sword on!
I suppose Brienne was pledged to stay with Sansa.
One confounding thing is , of all the loose ends, are Sansa and Brienne coming to KL or KL Dragon Pit , or something in or near KL for a Pow Wow?
I guess they are the most important characters not in the South right now.
Bran too?
But there are others, Yara .... why bring her back for one episode?
Bronn seems screwed right now... Dany aint gonna give him Highgarden
Edmure Tully .....Tobias Menzies was supposedly on set for S8 at some time.
A bunch of characters in Essos, story line in Essos.
With 80 min. left I don't think much fixing can be done.


What about Hot Pie?
 
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