Game of Thrones: 8.04 - The Last of the Starks

[ctg]

Hand and Hand. Still no hats.

The Long Night survivors plan their next steps; Cersei makes a power move.

This episode is 78 minutes long.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

First half was a bit slow, second half was better. Two stand out moments. Dany is being an arse.

That’s not a secret anymore; that’s information.

Best line of the show

Old Ghost made me sad

 

[Al Jackson]

I thought the last two episodes have been written with more seams and awkwardness by D&D than the first two written by Dave Hill and Bruce Cogman. Have D&D gotten so fatigued they are sort of winging It to get finished?

 

[anno]

Go Dany go Dany go Dany!!!
(Better to be an arse than to just be weird like Sansa, she’s got issues...)

 

[Culhwch]

First half was a bit slow, second half was better. Two stand out moments. Dany is being an arse.

I think I said it the week before last, but she's got far too much of her father in her. She'll need to be put down like he was before the end of the show, or she'll be burning anyone that slights her in the least.

Old Ghost made me sad

Totally. And Rhaegal! Ugh, I hate it when animals (mythical or otherwise) die in stories.

Oh, and it looks like the battle next week will be in the daytime! Hooray!

 

[anno]

I think Johnny Boy will regret giving up the Ghost...

 

[Al Jackson]

I think I said it the week before last, but she's got far too much of her father in her. She'll need to be put down like he was before the end of the show, or she'll be burning anyone that slights her in the least.



Totally. And Rhaegal! Ugh, I hate it when animals (mythical or otherwise) die in stories.

Oh, and it looks like the battle next week will be in the daytime! Hooray!

Another Miguel Sapochnik episode , he says it is another battle , he does that well , even when it a little uneven like Ep 3. ….80 min. long.

 

[REBerg]

The death of Rhaegal was shocking and horrifying.
Dany had been made painfully aware of Cersei's giant crossbow, anti-aircraft technology development efforts when Drogon was wounded by one of those armor-piercing scorpion bolts. Yet, she exposed both of her surviving "children" to attack in a low-altitude approach to the battle zone.
Equipping Eron's fleet and the Red Keep walls with these weapons could not have happened overnight. The upgrade surely would not have gone unnoticed by Varys' "little birds." Did he intentionally withhold this vital intelligence from Dany because he no longer sees her as the best option for the Iron Throne?

Judging by the reactions of Dany and Grey Worm to Missandei's beheading, the smirking Qeeen Cesei has successfully goaded Dany into putting everything she's got into an all-out attack on King's Landing. Couldn't she have achieved the same results by sending a few volleys of arrows their way? That would have settled the Dany-Jon throne claim issue, and put Jon in charge of the raging revenge.

Old Ghost made me sad

I think Johnny Boy will regret giving up the Ghost...

I was more saddened when Ghost and Jon parted ways than by any of the other of the other emotional farewells -- including Gendry and Arya and Jamie and Brienne. Is that wrong of me?

 

[svalbard]

was more saddened when Ghost and Jon parted ways than by any of the other of the other emotional farewells -- including Gendry and Arya and Jamie and Brienne. Is that wrong of me?

Agree. The sight of Ghost as they left Winterfell was a poignant moment. I had a sense of foreboding doom for Jon.

 

[Ursa major]

Did he intentionally withhold this vital intelligence from Dany because he no longer sees her as the best option for the Iron Throne?

From Varys' point of view, the fewer means Dany has to burn Kings Landing to the ground with its population still within its walls the better.

 

[REBerg]

From Varys' point of view, the fewer means Dany has to burn Kings Landing to the ground with its population still within its walls the better.

That's what I was thinking.
Varys has maintained his dedication to "The Realm" above all else. His loyalty to Dany only lasted as long her plan stuck to removing Cersei with minimal collateral damage.
Dany made it clear that she would agree to the parley more for appearances than expectations of a peaceful solution. She was ready to ignite dragon fire even before Missandei's final words.
Negotiations are over.

 

[BAYLOR]

I could be wrong but , Why do I get the feeling that Jamie is going to be the person who kills Cerci in the end.

Agree. The sight of Ghost as they left Winterfell was a poignant moment. I had a sense of foreboding doom for Jon.

In Game of Throne, Doom is a given.

 

[REBerg]

I could be wrong but , Why do I get the feeling that Jamie is going to be the person who kills Cerci in the end.

I got the feeling that killing Cersei is Arya's "unfinished business," as she hits the road for King's Landing with her old traveling companion. The Hound's target is his big brother.
That might work out well for the A/H-team. As the Hound is locked in a death match with Ser Gregor, Arya can use her Ninja assassin skills to slip behind Cersei and slit her throat.
Slaying the Night King was just practice.

 

[The Big Peat]

The death of Rhaegal was shocking and horrifying.
Dany had been made painfully aware of Cersei's giant crossbow, anti-aircraft technology development efforts when Drogon was wounded by one of those armor-piercing scorpion bolts. Yet, she exposed both of her surviving "children" to attack in a low-altitude approach to the battle zone.
Equipping Eron's fleet and the Red Keep walls with these weapons could not have happened overnight. The upgrade surely would not have gone unnoticed by Varys' "little birds." Did he intentionally withhold this vital intelligence from Dany because he no longer sees her as the best option for the Iron Throne?

Answer - We don't know and I suspect we never will. Which is, personally, manure. Once again, I feel cheated by the lack of Cause for the Effects in this series.

I was more saddened when Ghost and Jon parted ways than by any of the other of the other emotional farewells -- including Gendry and Arya and Jamie and Brienne. Is that wrong of me?

No. And I don't get what the hell Jon is thinking. I'm so over the "hurr durr" nature of Jon & Dany.


But, that aside, I thought it was a great episode. Great drama. I had my doubts about moving the Night King out of the picture, but its really made a lot of space for all the subplots around the Jon or Dany thing. Varys and Tyrion were outstanding.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

I got the feeling that killing Cersei is Arya's "unfinished business," as she hits the road for King's Landing with her old traveling companion. The Hound's target his big brother.
That might work out well for the A/H-team. As the Hound is locked in a death match with Ser Gregor, Arya can use her Ninja assassin skills to slip behind Cersei and slit her throat.
Slaying the Night King was just practice.

I agree. The Hound and Arya together bringing down the throne room

 

[Al Jackson]

I can’t say it’s exactly book canon ,GRRM does say dragons can be brought down, but he also says it’s harder than the show depicts.
Supposedly weapon makers are more savvy since the time of Aegon the Conqueror could be.
One lesson not learned , after the Battle North of the Wall, is battle tactics for dragons.
Rhaegal’s loss seemed too easy, I thought HBO had an open pocketbook this season for VFX? Sure helped out the billing department , got rid of Ghost too.
I guess at this late date Dany has had no time to consult about the military use of dragons , I am guessing a history existed , Sam would of had access?
Drogon took a bolt at Loot Train battle, Viserion took a Zom-Javelin at Battle Beyond the Wall, and now Rhaegal becomes easy pickings.
Does it not dawn of somebody to do something?
Dany goes into battle dressed for the Met Gala Ball and no thought is ever given to dragon barding at all.

 

[ctg]

Apologies for being late in the party.

I felt slightly angry at the farewell to the heroes. It could have felt better, if they'd had proper plans, instead of the cockup that served the battle. None of it felt right, and as always a sight like this is draped in veil of sadness.

Jon said that "they put aside of their differences to fight together." He is so right in that statement, and in his wish: "...for it never happen again," even though he's aware of the prophesies that brought him to the dragon lady and to be one of the winners on the battle against the Dead.

There should have been two dragons and a few giants in those funeral byres, and to be honest, a lot of them didn't go on the NightKing's side on their own will. They were all turned. Yet, no words for those dead. Maybe the matter is closed as Hound so well put it, "The Dead is dead."

In the aftermath, while they were still mourning, it felt strange that Dany granted Storm's End to Gendry as if it was her right to name Lords, and grant them castles. What about all the other blacksmiths, who worked on the load, while Gendry made Arya's special weapon?

What reward will they get? Nothing, as usual. I know most don't care for that stuff, but I feel for everyone and it feels weird that those unnamed people get the headache of trying to live in the world, where most they knew are gone.

I get why Arya said no to Gendry's proposal, but the union of Jamie and Brianne felt more right. And while Tyrion might have spotted Brianne's virginity, I would have thought it happened, when they last time in the King's Landing, in that hot bath.

In over all what they did felt for me so right and proper. It made chuckle, when Jaime confessed: "I've never slept with a knight before." I would not have been surprised, if he had.

In the counter, what happened in Dragon Queen's bedroom, felt kind of wrong as Dany was selling her body for the King. Her play was all about acquiring the Iron Throne and nothing about the man, she claimed to love.

In overall it felt supremely icy, while the fire was sparkling in the knight's chamber.

With more than half of their troops gone they rightly turned their eyes on the King's Landing, and Tyrion was absolutely right, when he claimed: "...that given opportunity the people in the King's Landing will cast her aside," once the hunger sets.

It is the right move, politically and forcefully as the Dragon Queen and the King of the North should be seen as benefactors rather than another set of conquerors aiming to get to the Iron Throne. Another war is just another war. Nothing changes. The game keeps going on instead of anyone being a winner.

To be honest the only winner in this game seems to be Bronn as Tyrion upgraded his castle needs to the High Garden. Everyone else seemed losers, even Ghost even if Jon gave him the biggest playground the play with. Just look at him, even his tail is down.

Is this the last we see any of them?

Wow. I didn't see the dragon death coming so soon after he was saved from the death. While I applaud for taking out one of the, one mostly open sees and within striking distance to the Queen's fleet, I don't get how they managed to sneak past the dragons and all the watches in the fleet?

I watched a few times this scene and there is open sea all around. And the Iron Fleet had full sails, unlike Queen's own flotilla that had their sails down. In open water they could not have been easier target. Maybe the Iron Fleet has those magical teleporting capabilities to be able to sneak past the dragon watch.

What I don't get is that after it became clear to the Queen that frontal assault was out of the question, why she didn't circle around and come again from the rear or pop over the islands to lay down dragon fire. If she done that, there could not have been celebrations in the Red Keep. Not for the dragon killers.

Maybe there should be a Top Gun class for the dragon riders.

That is the same look Jaime had before he captured Eddard. It's just what he is asking is more of redemption, even though he had already reached it and gained a lady as victory. We get that his soul is burning for the sins he committed to Cercei. I guess we can all say, "Men are stupid," and "They never learn," as a final deal.

Maybe he'll kill his sister if Arya doesn't get to her first or the Dragon Queen burn the King's Landing, while she is still in it. Why she couldn't burn the Iron Fleet at the sea?

 

[Koopa]

i thought Rhaegal death was kind of symbolic of dany burning the bridge to her nephew and to all what her brother Rhaegar stood for. Instead she is left with Only Drogon representing Khal Drogo, a would be conqueror (who didn't seem a benevolent ruler).

i never cared for dany in the books, and the show is starting to truly portray her as the tyrant i envision her to be in the books. I don't think she would be great for westeros. That said, D&D said after the episode that people always underestimate dany. So maybe she will prove to not be quite as bad as cersei after all.

I wouldn't be surprised that when Jon sees Dany's sacking King's Landing he might change views on her, resulting in that bittersweet ending. I'm hoping Jon completes the hero arc and sits the iron throne in the end. I wouldn't be surprised if he heroically ends up dead though, with dany as the survivor.

Cersei is evil, and so is Euron. But you have to respect their prowess in the GOT. I don't want them to win though. when the story ends, i still want the good guys to win. Maybe unrealistic, but i prefer to end on hope in stories.

 

[Mr Orange]

sigh, that had some good moments but also some incredibly stupid ones. and it looks, sadly, like the NK is all but forgotten about and that he really wasn't all that much of an existential threat after all. I agree with some of the threads that it has left lots of space for other storylines with him gone, but then they still could have given him a proper sendoff considering in the first 3 episodes

and Dany stoopid. as they sailed towards dragonstone I was sure that it would alraeady by occupied by Cersei's troops. I was close, it was Euron's stealth ships again. in fact, as they two dragons were frolicking I was completely expecting a bolt out of the blue. it's ridiculous to me that the ships didn't spot Euron's forces, and let's not talk about Dany's elevated position and direct line of sight to at least the 3 ships the bolts came from... and then there's the whole giving up instead of coming at them from behind.. eugh...

and Dany bad. this was, admittedly done much better. the switch in her demeanour in the bed chamber was good - from forlorn lover to cold queen in half a second. although she obviously doesn't know jon very well if she expects him to keep a secret that goes against his morals.

Tyrion should be dead. there's no way the women that blew up the sept wouldn't have sent a volley of arrows down onto him once missandei was dead. oh and missandei is dead, which really didn't bother me at all. she was pretty cardboard towards the end.

poor ghost though. resurrected from the cgi graveyard just to get mauled by the dead and sent off to the wall with Tormund the animal lover...

on the plus side, I really don't know where this will end up now. I could see cersei still on the throne at the end, or jon (after dany goes mental), or dany (after jon heroically dies for her and she sees the error of her ways), or even sansa (although that's a bit of a long shot I think)

I thought the last two episodes have been written with more seams and awkwardness by D&D than the first two written by Dave Hill and Bruce Cogman. Have D&D gotten so fatigued they are sort of winging It to get finished?

I agree, these last two episodes really don't seem to have been written by great writers

In the aftermath, while they were still mourning, it felt strange that Dany granted Storm's End to Gendry as if it was her right to name Lords, and grant them castles. What about all the other blacksmiths, who worked on the load, while Gendry made Arya's special weapon?

he's a Baratheon after all. which I think was the reason, to try and show a bit of forgiveness and get the lords on her side

 

[Dave]

It doesn't look like we will get the back-story of Bran and the Night King then. And the first half was very slow, though some things happened that needed to happen. Bran says that he 'lives in the past.'

I think I said it the week before last, but she's got far too much of her father in her. She'll need to be put down like he was before the end of the show, or she'll be burning anyone that slights her in the least.

I thought she could rule together with Jon (despite being Aunt and Nephew.) It seems that Tyrion and Varys have finally caught up with that idea, but that Dany is too mentally unstable. One of them, Dany or Jon, will need to die!

Dany had been made painfully aware of Cersei's giant crossbow, anti-aircraft technology development efforts when Drogon was wounded by one of those armor-piercing scorpion bolts. Yet, she exposed both of her surviving "children" to attack in a low-altitude approach to the battle zone.

Just more examples of her poor judgement. Cersei has riled her into attacking too soon. She was advised to wait but her anger has got the better of her. She is far too angry. They are in a war. With respect, why is the beheading of Missandei of such importance when some of their greatest warriors were killed in battle, and more will be, because of her failures? She needs to chill!

Why was Euron Greyjoy still in King's Landing? Wouldn't such a brilliant sea captain be better placed with his fleet?