Star Trek - Discovery - 2.14: Such Sweet Sorrow, part 2

Cathbad

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WARNING!! There will be spoilers!
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Episode 2.14: Such Sweet Sorrow, part 2, aired 4/18/2019
 

Cathbad

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Wow.

Once again, Discovery does not fail to Amaze and enthrall us. And once again, it wraps up the season in an absolutely brilliant and entertaining way!

Love it or hate it, you have to admit, Discovery is the most unique of all the Trek series!
 

Dave

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It was a good finish. They have conveniently tried to wrap up the continuity that doesn't bother you, but obviously bothers a lot of people they are trying to please. I knew that Spock was staying once he went into the shuttle, just as I knew that the Admiral would be the one to die once she looked way too long at the manual door closer.

So, we were correct about the identity of the Red Angel after all.

I have a few observations/questions. Maybe it is just that I missed something myself. First, I thought that this would have made one of the best endings to a Star Trek series ever, if there was to be no Season 3. Secondly, Season 3 will be very different indeed, and I can now see why some fans are saying that they would rather see a Captain Pike series instead, or as well.

3. With "Control dead and Leland neutralised," why did Discovery still need to go to the future? I understand that history said that it did, but then does history say that Vulcan is destroyed, or does it say that Spock reunifies Vulcan and Romulus? History in Star Trek is not a fixed thing. Now maybe, they were still unsure if Control was completely dead and Leland was totally neutralised, or maybe they thought that the mere presence of the Sphere data in the present day would effect the same problem to arise all over again. In other words, the existence of the Sphere data is just too dangerous to exist in itself, and therefore Discovery must be taken out of the equation. In that case, why make the "Red signal" drawing them to the asteroid, why not leave it undiscovered? Much easier not to do something, than correct all of the problems caused by doing it. There is a complex time paradox there, and I don't think they got it logically correct.

4. Discovery is going to the future with only a skeleton crew aboard. If no one knows about her in the future then she is going to be a big surprise. The Spore Drive and the Sphere Data are all going to be interesting, but the ship itself will go to a museum. if it needs a certain number of people to operate it, then they can't go off themselves without taking aboard more personnel. I'm interested to know how that is going to work out. However, I'm also unclear how none of the Discovery crew that left her never talked about her, or wrote secret memoirs, or a bestselling tell-all book later in their lives. That takes some discipline, but no missed records exist at all? Totally wiped clean from the history books and Michael Burnham never existed? This part, I cannot believe. The Section 31 being toned down, I can.

5. Michael Burnham never existing is interesting because now, the animated episode where Spock returns to the past (Yesteryear TAS) to help his young self from being attacked in the Vulcan desert, now actually makes more sense too.
 

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I think I misinterpreted something... I thought they went 30 years into the past?
It might be me. It was confusing but the plan was always to set coordinates for Terralysium (the planet they saved from the asteroids) 930 years in the future. However, quantum fluctuations within the wormhole made it difficult for Discovery to track Burnham using traditional sensors, so she had the idea of creating another red signal (the sixth) to guide Discovery through the time worm hole to the other side. I'm not absolutely sure if they said that was still in the future or in the past, but in the future it fits with the events of the "short trek" episode "Calypso" (something I haven't yet seen myself) taking place in the 33rd century, as then that would make sense, as it is just 200 years after the Discovery would arrive through the other side of the worm hole at Terralysium. Then "Star Trek: Discovery" can continue with the USS Discovery being the principal setting of the show, and next Season the ship can return along with all the key crew but way in the future. My problem would be that the ship has insufficient crew, but I've just realised that this is a very good reason for the creation of the A.I. seen in "Calypso." I will have to watch that "short trek" episode now. Also forget what I said about Discovery being a museum piece because it looks like 930 years in the future is a very different world. I hadn't quite grasped that it was so far forward in time myself.
 

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If I recall correctly, when Michael's mother mentioned "930 years into the future", it was actually 20years into the past from where they were - though Imay have misunderstood.

Since tthey will be 51,000 lightyeats away, Discovery becomes a"Voyager"-type series.
 

Dave

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When you wrote last week
Now, the second season stands on a dangerous precipice
I thought this was what you were talking about (together with talking Spock with them - because then he wouldn't be around.)

Since tthey will be 51,000 lightyeats away, Discovery becomes a"Voyager"-type series.
Yes exactly, and that's why some fans want a Captain Pike series in "this" era and setting. We've become comfortable with it now. I'm much more comfortable with it than I was with Enterprise. It is why I think there is enough room for both and the Picard series too.
 

Cathbad

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some fans want a Captain Pike series in "this" era and setting. We've become comfortable with it now. I'm much more comfortable with it than I was with Enterprise. It is why I think there is enough room for both and the Picard series too.
I'd like it, too... I just don't think it's going to happen.
 

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3. With "Control dead and Leland neutralised," why did Discovery still need to go to the future?
When they are de-briefing at the end with that unseen admiral, one of them asks him if Starfleet have neutralised control completely. Or the 'rest of control', or words to that effect. Implying that Control was spread further than just Leyland and those rouge ships.

My biggest problem was when Burnham finally open's the rift and Discovery begins to follow her in (all to escape control), but Leyland is still onboard!
And not one person seems bothered that they are taking control to the future with them. It's only at the last minute that Georgiou signals the bridge to say he was neutralised.
 

BAYLOR

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So the reason that we've never heard o Discovery and Michael Burnham is because Spock and everyone the stayed has views near to speak of them again? Good god, that is lame and stupid !
 

Cathbad

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So the reason that we've never heard o Discovery and Michael Burnham is because Spock and everyone the stayed has views near to speak of them again? Good god, that is lame and stupid !
Seriously? They do this today - in real.
 

Cathbad

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I'm serious here:

As much as I love Star Trek, I hope they never start another series. I'm just so tired of the 'fans" hating everything about it.
 

BAYLOR

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Seriously? They do this today - in real.
Why didn't they just skip the 2 season canon gymnastics of Discovery and start it 950 year into the future ? That would have made more sense.
 
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BAYLOR

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I'm serious here:

As much as I love Star Trek, I hope they never start another series. I'm just so tired of the 'fans" hating everything about it.
Being critical isn't by definition , hating .

I don't hate season season 2, .
 
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Cathbad

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Being Critical isn't by definition , hating .
I wasn't targeting you. But we just saw the best show of any Star Trek series (and even if you disagree it was the best, it was definitely at the top) and all any so-called fans can do is point out anything they find "wrong". I believe you, yourself said "stupid".

Do you realize that fans of everything other than Star Wars and Star Trek actually get giddy talking about the series they love?

I've never heard a Dark Shadows fan complain about a casket being "too frilly/out of date".

I've yet to hear a Stargate fan complain the gate "looks silly".

Not once have I seen a NCIS fan blog about how Jethro isn't "military enough".

Nope... only in ST/SW do its supposed fans ridicule and put down every. single. episode. and movie.

It's tiresome and disenheartening. And almost impossible to find people to talk to who enjoy the shows as much as I do. They're out there; I've met them: But they are too intimidated or as tired as I am getting to post in supposed fan-based forums.

/end rant
 

Dave

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I've yet to hear a Stargate fan complain the gate "looks silly".
The appeal of Stargate was that it was meant to be set in the present day. Once they started to back-engineer weapons and tech, and had huge spaceships flying about that no one ever noticed, not to mention all the aliens visiting Earth, well, then it did look silly.

Anyway, I digress! I agree with Cathbad, on the whole. The other problem that the secrecy solves is the whole "Worf is the first Klingon in Starfleet" business, when you already have Ash Tyler serving 100 years earlier.
 

BAYLOR

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I wasn't targeting you. But we just saw the best show of any Star Trek series (and even if you disagree it was the best, it was definitely at the top) and all any so-called fans can do is point out anything they find "wrong". I believe you, yourself said "stupid".

Do you realize that fans of everything other than Star Wars and Star Trek actually get giddy talking about the series they love?

I've never heard a Dark Shadows fan complain about a casket being "too frilly/out of date".

I've yet to hear a Stargate fan complain the gate "looks silly".

Not once have I seen a NCIS fan blog about how Jethro isn't "military enough".

Nope... only in ST/SW do its supposed fans ridicule and put down every. single. episode. and movie.

It's tiresome and disenheartening. And almost impossible to find people to talk to who enjoy the shows as much as I do. They're out there; I've met them: But they are too intimidated or as tired as I am getting to post in supposed fan-based forums.

/end rant
In the case Stargate SGI Im waiting for an apology for the Episode Worm Hole Extreme and Episode 200 ! What the hell were they thinking when wrote those ??!!!
 

Cathbad

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The other problem that the secrecy solves is the whole "Worf is the first Klingon in Starfleet" business, when you already have Ash Tyler serving 100 years earlier.
I don't think Tyler could be honestly considered a "Klingon serving in Starfleet". Not that Starfleet - nor the Klingons - would ever acknowledge, nor anyone recall, as it would be highly classified.
 

BAYLOR

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I don't think Tyler could be honestly considered a "Klingon serving in Starfleet". Not that Starfleet - nor the Klingons - would ever acknowledge, nor anyone recall, as it would be highly classified.
In the case of Stargate SGI , I demand an apology for two episodes in particular, Worm hole Extreme and Episode 200. What they hell were thye thinking???!!! :eek:
 

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I demand an apology for two episodes in particular, Worm hole Extreme and Episode 200.
I enjoyed Worm Hole Extreme and 200 as an interesting meta experience. A lot like the strange episodes on Supernatural.


I liked the finale and were the show ended up. Jumping the ship forward past any of the other shows does away with many issues. I wonder about Georgiou because she was on Discovery but she's getting her own show in the past.

Just because I have watched Star Trek all my life and have enjoyed all the TV shows including Enterprise, doesn't mean I have to like everything they do.

Do you realize that fans of everything other than Star Wars and Star Trek actually get giddy talking about the series they love?
Many Stargate fans complain about Universe and more about the recent 10 part web series. Doctor Who fans do it all the time. Even more than normal this last year. DC fans were upset about Legends and some more about Supergirl. There's been a steady outcry from DC comic fans about Arrow stealing Batman's plotlines and Supergirl stealing Superman's.

I could go on and I bet I could even find that NCIS complaint.
 
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