Writing religious characters

Joshua Jones

When all is said and done, all's quiet and boring.
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DISCLAIMER - this thread is not intended to be a discussion of specific religious systems and their comparitive value, or of religion as a whole. Let's agree to make this thread easy for the mods by staying focused on characters.

I decided to watch Altered Carbon a few weeks ago, and while I enjoyed the cyberpunk setting and storyline, I found the depiction of religious people to be somewhat... lacking. That got me thinking about how religious people are depicted in SF as a whole, and it seems that most religious persons are the Luddite sort, which reject (insert plot relevant technology here) for reasons typically not expanded upon beyond saying it is against nature/sin (the Neo-C are of this sort, even though there is no category in the Catholic Church for the sort of sin they consider resleeving).

My question is, with so much emphasis on diversity in present times, why does there seem to be no interest in the diversity which exists among religious persons, within the same religion or in different ones? Or, am I just missing what is out there?
 
Unfortunately, even the discussion of a religion, beliefs, faith or even God tends to make many people uncomfortable... I'll let everyone form their own opinions as to why. Equally so, just as some folks seem to have trouble finding resolution between the creation/evolution question (even unable to find a way to merge the concepts), some folks tend to assume future peoples will be too advanced for faith in an unseen, something akin to 'no heart all mind.'

Having developed a rather intricate religion for my barbarian culture, I feel many folks are truly missing out on the degree of depth adding such to an individual or fictional society can give to those characters. Folks seem to struggle to find reason and foundations for resolve with their characters. Well, there it is. Why does the bad guy do these particular good things or visa versa? Why will this character walk into the storm when no one else will and so on?

In my latest work the protagonist has a very strong conventional faith involving various religious beliefs for those very reasons. It actually helps give reason for extremes, inner torments, drives and motivations. That said, going right back to what I said above about comfort levels, I often have pointed out to me how I used 'gawd' in place of God when a character is cursing or invoking the name of God in vain. So I get it though in a different regard.

So, some I would guess simply avoid the question for whatever the reason. In my case it helps me to add depth, strength, vulnerable points and so on. Then again, I've found what works for me and am very comfortable with it. Not everyone is I suppose, yet that doesn't matter, it works for me.

K2
 
I think there are depictions, if you delve deeper into the genre. Dune deals with various religions a lot - the Bene Gesserit are far from luddites, for instance. Also, in the sequels to Ender’s Game, Scott Card does a lot about religions, including a main character who develops a pretty humanist religion. Just because some books don’t do religion well doesn’t mean some don’t! Also, Dark Eden by Beckett utilises religious divergent (although he probably does lean a little towards religion = conservatism)

I have religious characters in all my books but it’s not something I choose to dwell on for too long - I suspect mainly because, being Northern Irish, it’s something I prefer not to delve into. It’s depressing enough when religion forms the basis of your schooling, voting options and law making without having to write about the darn thing too :D:D having said that, not including references to religion and depicting some of the characters as religious would paint a wholly false picture of NI, so there are many in it (often quietly religious as opposed to stridently so* although my next NI book will probably be less soft on some of that tendency here)

* I think I do that because people equate NI with intolerant religious eejits when, really, most religious people here are simply people of faith.
 
Don't have time for a proper answer, as getting ready for work. On a Sunday - irony. Don't like working Sundays, not because of any religious leaning, but because I do like the idea of a communal day of rest, where most people can chill and get together.

Anyway, religious figures in SFF seem to work best where they talk about a spiritual, internalised, purpose. Think Book in Firefly. Another example would be the priest in Joe Donnelly's Bane - great book if you ever find a copy, although fantasy, not sf. Neither bring their religion to the page/screen, other than in passing, but they do talk about higher purposes, and looking at something outside yourself, even if it's only doing something for the community.

Aargh! Must dash.
 
I think the basic division in religion, and depictions of it, is between the societal/cultural aspects (exoteric) and the mystical aspects (esoteric). Some religious characters will be only cultural adherents, some will have what they feel to be a genuine connection with, or experience of, the divine. The exoteric aspects will probably be of interest more to worldbuilders and writers with an anthropological bent, but without the esoteric, those religions and the characters within them might feel a bit hollow. It might be difficult to get inside the skin of a truly religious or mystical character unless the writer has some kind of experience of it themselves, but maybe not -- maybe it just needs them to hook into another part of the psyche that has the same root.

Religion plays a big part in my books. I'm interested in both cultural and mystical aspects, and where both come from, the mix between human psychology and society and (perhaps) the actual divine. One of my favourite characters (and readers', I've been told), and definitely the easiest to write, is the most "religious". It's not the cultural trappings of his religion that most interest me, it's the powerful emotional component of his need for God.
 
Great and thoughtful responses so far.
Unfortunately, even the discussion of a religion, beliefs, faith or even God tends to make many people uncomfortable... I'll let everyone form their own opinions as to why. Equally so, just as some folks seem to have trouble finding resolution between the creation/evolution question (even unable to find a way to merge the concepts), some folks tend to assume future peoples will be too advanced for faith in an unseen, something akin to 'no heart all mind.'

Having developed a rather intricate religion for my barbarian culture, I feel many folks are truly missing out on the degree of depth adding such to an individual or fictional society can give to those characters. Folks seem to struggle to find reason and foundations for resolve with their characters. Well, there it is. Why does the bad guy do these particular good things or visa versa? Why will this character walk into the storm when no one else will and so on?

In my latest work the protagonist has a very strong conventional faith involving various religious beliefs for those very reasons. It actually helps give reason for extremes, inner torments, drives and motivations. That said, going right back to what I said above about comfort levels, I often have pointed out to me how I used 'gawd' in place of God when a character is cursing or invoking the name of God in vain. So I get it though in a different regard.

So, some I would guess simply avoid the question for whatever the reason. In my case it helps me to add depth, strength, vulnerable points and so on. Then again, I've found what works for me and am very comfortable with it. Not everyone is I suppose, yet that doesn't matter, it works for me.

K2
This is exactly what I am getting at. Including complex religious beliefs can add a great deal of depth to a character, as well as make your story more appealing to people of faith, which actually is a decent market for SF.

I think there are depictions, if you delve deeper into the genre. Dune deals with various religions a lot - the Bene Gesserit are far from luddites, for instance. Also, in the sequels to Ender’s Game, Scott Card does a lot about religions, including a main character who develops a pretty humanist religion. Just because some books don’t do religion well doesn’t mean some don’t! Also, Dark Eden by Beckett utilises religious divergent (although he probably does lean a little towards religion = conservatism)

I have religious characters in all my books but it’s not something I choose to dwell on for too long - I suspect mainly because, being Northern Irish, it’s something I prefer not to delve into. It’s depressing enough when religion forms the basis of your schooling, voting options and law making without having to write about the darn thing too :D:D having said that, not including references to religion and depicting some of the characters as religious would paint a wholly false picture of NI, so there are many in it (often quietly religious as opposed to stridently so* although my next NI book will probably be less soft on some of that tendency here)

* I think I do that because people equate NI with intolerant religious eejits when, really, most religious people here are simply people of faith.
I certainly don't think every story should have religion as a major component any more than I think every story should address racism or sexism. If we button hole ourselves into things we must write about, we limit the diversity of stories available to us, and this seems the opposite of what we are trying to accomplish. My suggestion is, should we choose to depict religious persons, we should do so fairly wherever possible. And, based on what you said so far, it seems like you do exactly that.

You are absolutely right that Dune presents complex religious systems, though I haven't read the Ender’s Game sequels or Dark Eden yet... maybe I will have to add them to my list. Thanks for the suggestions! I would even be fine with Luddite religious groups if their rejection of technology made sense and could be understood by a rational person. The Amish, for example, are about as Luddite as they come, but they aren't rejecting technology so much as the fast paced, industrial lifestyle certain technologies push. And, I hear many people complain about exactly this, so perhaps the Amish have a point? At minimum, one could see how a reasonable person could come to their conclusions. And, I think that is what catches me about many depictions of religious people in SF; one cannot see how a reasonable person would come to their conclusions.

Don't have time for a proper answer, as getting ready for work. On a Sunday - irony. Don't like working Sundays, not because of any religious leaning, but because I do like the idea of a communal day of rest, where most people can chill and get together.

Anyway, religious figures in SFF seem to work best where they talk about a spiritual, internalised, purpose. Think Book in Firefly. Another example would be the priest in Joe Donnelly's Bane - great book if you ever find a copy, although fantasy, not sf. Neither bring their religion to the page/screen, other than in passing, but they do talk about higher purposes, and looking at something outside yourself, even if it's only doing something for the community.

Aargh! Must dash.
I almost mentioned Book as one of the exceptions to this principle, and hats off to Joss Whedon for creating a strong character with whom he fundamentally disagrees with. What really strikes me about him is that he has strong convictions, even about things the other crew members are doing (Inara seems to know Book doesn't approve of her career choice), but he is still kind and caring to everyone. The only verbal disapproval I can think of is the "special hell" bit. So, again, strong convictions, but caring about people enough to not discuss them unless a third party is at risk.

I will have to track down Bane, though. I cannot say I am at all familiar with it, but it sounds like it must be good, based on your recommendation. Overall, I think Fantasy does better with religious characters than SF, which is why I focused in on the latter.

I look forward to hearing more of your comments when you have the time!
I think the basic division in religion, and depictions of it, is between the societal/cultural aspects (exoteric) and the mystical aspects (esoteric). Some religious characters will be only cultural adherents, some will have what they feel to be a genuine connection with, or experience of, the divine. The exoteric aspects will probably be of interest more to worldbuilders and writers with an anthropological bent, but without the esoteric, those religions and the characters within them might feel a bit hollow. It might be difficult to get inside the skin of a truly religious or mystical character unless the writer has some kind of experience of it themselves, but maybe not -- maybe it just needs them to hook into another part of the psyche that has the same root.

Religion plays a big part in my books. I'm interested in both cultural and mystical aspects, and where both come from, the mix between human psychology and society and (perhaps) the actual divine. One of my favourite characters (and readers', I've been told), and definitely the easiest to write, is the most "religious". It's not the cultural trappings of his religion that most interest me, it's the powerful emotional component of his need for God.
I think you hit the nail on the head. It seems to me the overwhelming majority of religious characters are written with only the exoteric or behavioral aspects discussed, with little to no discussion on the esoteric or intangible motivations for those actions. With any other character type, we would be critically flailed for not exploring their motivations. What I find especially interesting is when those motivations for religious people are tied to both emotional needs and intellectual conclusions based on reason, but not all religious perspectives value reason to the same degree...

Your comments beg a question, though. I wonder what religious people can do to help change this focus? Unfortunately, most contemporary religious fiction has been...less than stellar... so I wonder if encouraging more religious people to write and write well would help? Any other ideas?
 
I was about to say I don't write religious characters as I have absolutely no interest in religion whatsoever, but then I remembered that one of the MCs in Space Mac is a priest. Made-up religions are easier, I find the vast majority of Earth religions to be nonsensical. I also don't know enough about them to write them - I only know one Christian and he's of the holier-than-thou kind. I know several pagans and a sikh and while I do know a little of Paganism and could probably attempt writing a Wiccan maybe, I don't think I could attempt a Sikh character.

I can name you more characters with a made-up religion than with an our-world religion. My first thought was Zhaan in Farscape. It's just easier to make stuff up than it is doing research and/or risking offending people.
 
I wonder what religious people can do to help change this focus? Unfortunately, most contemporary religious fiction has been...less than stellar... so I wonder if encouraging more religious people to write and write well would help? Any other ideas?

Depends why they wanted to change the focus. Obviously any kind of attempt at convincing non-believers would be on a hiding to nothing. I'd like personally to see more exploration of the religious/spiritual mindset in SFF, because I like the ambiguity, but to be successful, I think that would have to come from writers who are sympathetic to both sides, and people tend to be one way or the other. It's similar in a way to the discussion about men writing women (and vice versa) but more entrenched in that people aren't often interested in making the imaginative leap to the other side because they see no value in it.

I forgot earlier about the most obvious thing about writing religion in SFF (more in fantasy), that the existence of gods might not be in any doubt -- their powers might be frequently made obvious. You don't need any kind of spiritual mindset to worship a being that can throw meteors at your enemies.
 
Depends why they wanted to change the focus. Obviously any kind of attempt at convincing non-believers would be on a hiding to nothing. I'd like personally to see more exploration of the religious/spiritual mindset in SFF, because I like the ambiguity, but to be successful, I think that would have to come from writers who are sympathetic to both sides, and people tend to be one way or the other. It's similar in a way to the discussion about men writing women (and vice versa) but more entrenched in that people aren't often interested in making the imaginative leap to the other side because they see no value in it.

I forgot earlier about the most obvious thing about writing religion in SFF (more in fantasy), that the existence of gods might not be in any doubt -- their powers might be frequently made obvious. You don't need any kind of spiritual mindset to worship a being that can throw meteors at your enemies.
Yeah, that is an important point. I don't think literary prostylizing is the best approach for those who think they should be prostylizing. I am more thinking about how experiences can be shared so better characters can be written. I like character diversity, and even if the piece written is directly antagonistic toward religion, I think it would be better to have nuanced characters being depicted than flat ones. But, I think you are right that the mindset of a religious person may be hard to understand for someone who does not think likewise, and helping them understand directly would nearly surely be interpreted as prostylizing. So, there needs to be some strategy of sharing it indirectly, and in my mind, simply writing stronger religious characters is a good start. I am wondering, though, what else could be done? Are non-religious people interested in creating religious characters who are more nuanced, or are they content with the flat roles for a predictable antagonist? These are more the questions I am interested in exploring.

I think your second point is part of why religious persons tend to fare a bit better in Fantasy. When the gods are things one interacts directly with, serving said gods becomes reasonable to the most hardened skeptic.
 
I think that would have to come from writers who are sympathetic to both sides, and people tend to be one way or the other.
This. If you write about religion from only an atheist angle, it's almost always one-dimensional and preachy. If you flip it, this is also true if you're writing about atheism without having ever considered that stance. To do it justice, one would need to approach faith from both sides. Not saying that good writers can't pull it off even without those personal experiences attached (that's the whole deal of SFF after all), but it certainly helps.

I for one, have a story in the pipeline which relies heavily on the main religion for the world-building. This religion kinda rebuilds society from the ashes, so its principles have regulated culture and many other aspects of civilized life. It's a great exercise in how to retroengineer a society based on religious foundations. It's made up, of course, as I agree with those who say that's preferable to going knee-deep into current organised religion. That way I can be less cautious of where I take my plot.
 
In a lot of fiction religious characters are one dimensional. Overly pious, holier than thou and ultimately evil. It's easy to write characters like that as a way to heap scorn on religion.
If creating a world governed by religious principals then write in characters of all shades. From those who scorn that religion to those who give lip service to it, to those who are regular worshipers to those who are Holier than thou to those who are ultimately evil zealots.
That is the way it is in reality.
 
First off, I too wish more authors tackled religion. Not only is it a big real world theme that people like to shuffle under the carpet, but its something that creates a sense of realness to a secondary world. I always found it weird how we heard so little of the religious devotions of Middle Earth, or how widespread faith in the Creator and Dark One created so few bodies of faith in Randland, although in a way I prefer that void to the cheap coat of paint you'll get in some fantasy books. Eddings has a lot of priests, but not in a way that feels meaningful.

Secondly... I wish that when more people went there, they did more than the Examplars of What Is Good About Religion and What Is Bad About Religion. As mentioned by a few people above, there's a lot of people in this world who are "religious by proxy" (thanks for that Ihe). There's a lot of people who have real faith but pay little attention to the Church in their every day lives.

Books/authors that I think do religion well -

Bernard Cornwell. Well, kinda. There's no doubting from his books that he has some serious beefs with organised religion, but he writes a spectrum of religious characters. There's good priests who believe, good priests who doubt, and bad of both variety. Good priests who are unworldly, good priests who are, and some of that with the bad too. There are people with rock solid faith, there are massive crisis of faith, there are those who turn to faith in crisis and adamant atheists. And consistent waverers. In short, everything. Admittedly, he's done this over 60 books covering over a thousand years of history, which makes it a lot easier, but that mix of faith is what I think authors should aspire to include.

And tbh, now I've finished writing that, I can't think of anyone in the same ballpark easily.
 
I'll add this, characters simply reacting or dealing with the tangible world are flat and two dimensional. When they also consider and cope with the philosophical and spiritual world, only then do they become three dimensional.

K2
 
One thing I have been thinking about recently is that you can chart much of how a person interacts with a religion based on what they think regarding the religion (whether they believe it or not), how they feel about it (if they like the claims of the religion or not), and how strongly they do these (ranging from apathy to zeal). You can have a person who disbelieve a religion but thinks it does societal good, so therefore feels it is good, and feels indifferent to the whole enterprise. Or, one could have a person who thinks a religion is true but hates that it is, and is passionate in their hatred. Or any other combination of options, leading to results ranging from the militant Atheist to the by-proxy affiliate or cultural adherent.

Also, of great significance is the empathy the religious person feels toward those who disagree, and the degree of security the person feels in whatever they are trying to achieve by their religion. The holier than thou types tend to have little empathy (there is a strong "us vs. them" mindset, rather than, say, a belief that there is little separating them from everyone else) and have very little security in their piety, thinking they can fall from grace at any point. This could take the form of someone trying to appease Zeus ("I'll be the one laughing when your fields are burned down by lightning!") or thinking about afterlife ("Enjoy life as a grasshopper! I'm coming back as a demigod."). Almost universally, when someone is throwing out how pious they are, there is some insecurity there regarding how well they are doing. Javert from Les Miserables is a great example. He has exactly zero empathy for Valjean, and bases his hope on being better than others. When he comes to realize that Valjean is not so different (and if anything is the better man), his entire world crashes down. The other major motive for this sort of action is a secret sin, either in the past or present, which they are hoping to atone for.

In contrast, a character type I don't see often is someone who passionately believes their religion but has strong empathy, so they don't look down on those who disagree. This would make something of a weeping prophet type, desperately warning people at great cost to him/herself out of genuine concern, even love, for others. It seems there is great tragic possibility in such a character...
 
I was of the mind that the characters become three dimensional when you give them goals and aspirations, trials and tribulation, weaknesses, strengths and room to grow. The philosophical and spiritual are aspects of the weaknesses and strengths, they add more depth and often help explain why it might be so difficult for this one to grow at all. I never have viewed those as necessary, only as some bits and pieces of ways and means to temporarily blind a character to their own faults and even, some times, their inner strengths.
 

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