The New Joker

Rodders

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He’s a great actor, though. I’m interested in how this goes.
 

Overread

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To me the problem is that Joker is overplayed in Batman at present. Yes we know he's one of the most popular, but he's risen to the point where almost all the others don't matter, that its only Joker that matters. It's a shame as there are loads of interesting evil and half evil and not actually evil just missguided characters that Batman interacts with, yet Joker is dominating way above the others.
 

Cathbad

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Agreed, they picked a good actor. I just don't understand the tamping down of the make-up.

And @Overread makes a good point: Though the Joker is the most popular villain, there are plenty of good ones that could be used. I think this is another case of chicken-sh*t execs not wanting to take a chance with anything actually new!
 

Overread

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Aye the sad thing is that we know what Joker is like now. Whilst a new script and actor can put a new twist on him we know the story so well and already know what to expect (as much as anyone can expect anything). If they broke it up so that we didn't have any joker for a long while then when he did make a return it would be all the better!

That said they are also messing around with creating united superhero films so if this new Batman and Joker is going to keep in the same pattern as the last one (superman VS batman) then I'm predicting Joker wins. Cause the Batman from SvsB was rather a stupid Batman, who even for Batman has serious parental issues.
 

Vince W

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I hate the look. It's terrible. Recent DC films have been pretty 'meh' for me, but I'm willing to wait and hope. I remember when Tim Burton was making Batman and when I heard that Michael Keaton was going to play Batman I was very vocal in my incredulity and displeasure. I mean 'Mr. Mom? Gung Ho guy? Beetlejuice?' I was 'No way, man. NO. WAY.'

However, Keaton is the definitive Batman for me now. Much like Christopher Reeves as Superman/Clark Kent. The only thing that keeps me going back to DC films is the hopes of having my expectations completely twisted. In a good way.
 

Vince W

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I agree. Keaton was a nice surprise.
I was floored at how good he was as Batman/Wayne. I haven't watched Bale since the first time, but I can watch Keaton over and over again.
 

The Crawling Chaos

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I am reminded of the announcement that the Joker would be the main antagonist in The Dark Knight ("It will never be as good as Jack Nicholson's Joker"). I am reminded of the announcement that Heath Ledger would play that joker ("Heath 'A Knight's Tale' Ledger? I am not watching this film!"). I am reminded of the first images revealing Heath Ledger's Joker online ("What do you mean, 'he's wearing makeup?' No permawhite? This movie sucks!"). I am reminded of the fans' ultimate reception of the movie ("Oh.").

I am looking forward to this film. From what I can see so far, the filmmakers are trying to put their own twist on the character's mythology and that is nothing but a good sign. How many retellings of the same story do we need? What's the point of retreading the same ground ad nauseam? I am of the mind that if a filmmaker has nothing new to say about the character, they should stay away from the franchise in the first place. I want need each 'reboot' to feel fresh and new. So far, so good.

The only thing that leaves me perplexed is the recent announcement that the script for 'Joker and Harley Quinn' is finished, and that Jared Leto and Margot Robbie seem to be attached as the two leads. How many Jokers do we need at one time? At the moment the DC cinematic universe is such a mess I've decided to stop watching the films until they reboot it all (Batman v Superman was a mess, Wonder Woman a letdown, Suicide Squad an embarrassment and I couldn't finish Justice League). The last thing the DC universe needs right now is two competing incarnations of the same character sharing the screen.
 

Overread

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DC has been doing this for years in comics and TV animated series, they are just bringing their blend of messy to the Big Screen. Essentially its very odd because outside of comic heroes very few could get away rehashing the same heroes and characters over and over and over again.

Part of it is achieved by the fact that each new series often caught a new generation, however right now they are coming so fast that its almost insane (Spiderman had 3 films made almost back to back that were the same "here he is again" introduction stories). Especially as so many are introduction films telling the roughly same story of the character. I'm actually surprised they keep doing intro films and don't just make adventure/story films that continue.


I think part of the issue is that they are really hooked on the idea of cross film characters, one helping the newbie on. Which kind of gets odd once you're putting Superman and his enemies in with Batman and his and then in with another handful of random heroes. It is messy, but it has worked for them so long like this that I think they are actually afraid and unsure how to behave otherwise.
 

Cathbad

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So basically, right now, we have one joker in cool, evil-looking make-up, and another in dopey, rather boring, circus make-up.

~smh~
 

The Crawling Chaos

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So basically, right now, we have one joker in cool, evil-looking make-up, and another in dopey, rather boring, circus make-up.

~smh~
To be honest, it took me a full minute (and checking your previous post) to understand which you referred to as the 'evil-looking make-up' and which was the 'dopey circus make-up'.

As much as I appreciate Leto as an actor, his Joker never gave us much to chew on. I thought he was a pretty generic Ayer character and he was trying way too hard.

As for "evil-looking", there's something in Joaquin Phoenix's eyes that just works for me:



All that being said, the makeup doesn't make the man anyway. Why judge a character's incarnation based on the superficial look they chose for him? That's the tip of the iceberg. His behaviour, body language and actions will define whether he's a great joker or a failed one, not a red dot on his nose.

I'm not saying he will be great, I'm saying: Wait and see.
 

Cathbad

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Why judge a character's incarnation based on the superficial look they chose for him?
Oh, I'm not judging the Character! I'm judging the Make-Up Artist! Phoenix is a fine actor, and I'm sure he will do fantastic in the role. It's strictly the make-up - which has always been a major factor of the Joker.

Up to now, with varying explanations (which Ledger so wonderfully parodied), Joker's looks were a permanent feature. It's too very obvious the new Joker's look is make-up, poorly applied, and not the least bit scary. Phoenix will play the Joker well, but he'll do it in a sub-par costume.
 

The Crawling Chaos

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Well, to each their own. I quite like this look. The costume is a nice callback to Romero's Joker (from 1960s TV show) and the makeup looks like a cross between Ledger's Mr J and Pennywise.

I'm happy they went with something unexpected and I hope the surprises will keep coming. I don't want the Jokers I already know from the comics and other films (I have the comics and these other films if I want to revisit those). I want Todd Phillips's and Joaquin Phoenix's Joker. The more surprised I feel, the better it gets!
 

Overread

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You know I'd like to see a Joker who doesn't care about Batman. As time has gone on Joker has more and more become the arch rival of Batman and vis-versa to the point where its dominating the recent films. Heath's Joker was a bit fresh in that he had no actual focused interest in batman nor relationship prior to the film; however he did suffer a bit in that he came out of nowhere and just appeared totally mad and with no real long term plan besides chaos.

I'd like to see a Joker who has a proper non-bat related history and who has a real objective (we might not know what it is to start with) but something that he's working toward. A lot of Joker plots are often quite sensible in their target, its just the means, method and approach that makes it an insane Joker experience.
 
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