Formatting as you write...

[-K2-]

Up to this point, I have always formatted what I have written to suit forums (realizing that some formatting will be discarded and some types will even throw off the copy and paste). Now that I'm actually considering publishing something (yeah-yeah, stupid is as stupid does), I'm wondering if I should perhaps alter how I do things?

As it stands, I don't indent paragraphs (it gets lost on a forum), I don't use page breaks or top and bottom margins. I haven't used index to chapter hot-linking (it gets lost) and my page width considering side margins is wide to better simulate the aspect ratio of a forum/monitor. Font, font size, etc., etc.. The list goes on, but anywho...

Do you find (for yourself) that it is better to format as you go along, or to go back and alter it after?

IOW, write to write, then format to format. I'm thinking that my paragraph lengths won't/shouldn't change, but my layout might (once I see how it looks). Obviously, then there is the issue of e-book vs. paper. Considering the differences (and if just for my own vanity, let alone an editing suggestion that was made here, at some point I would like to hold a paper copy in my hand), I'm thinking after is the way to go, yet I'd like to hear what you all have to say.

Thanks for any input!

K2

 

[Edward M. Grant]

Are you self-publishing, or submitting to trade publishers? If the latter, you probably want to write in standard manuscript format, if the former you might want to write in print format.

I do write in print format, but I don't worry too much about the details of the formatting until I get close to the end of the book. Then I go back and clean up hyphenation, widows and orphans, etc, to make it look better in print. For the ebook, I export it as HTML and use a custom style sheet to convert the print book styles into ebook styles.

Either way, styles are your friend. Never use direct formatting (e.g. turning italics on and off), always use paragraph, page and character styles, then you can easily reformat it as required. I actually have a script that takes the print document and converts it to normal manuscript format if I ever need to do that.... all it has to do is update the styles in the document and I'm ready to go.

 

[Biskit]

This!

Either way, styles are your friend. Never use direct formatting (e.g. turning italics on and off), always use paragraph, page and character styles, then you can easily reformat it as required.

And I would add, keep it simple - a few basic styles for chapter headings, main text etc. If you need to change the font, indents etc, you just update the styles. The more complicated you make it, the more grief you're likely to run into during ebook conversion.

 

[Brian G Turner]

I wrote a piece before on how to format Word for a manuscript, using stylesheets: How to use Styles in MS Word for formatting a manuscript

 

[tinkerdan]

I've done Self Publishing route and presently when I work on a piece I choose the font and the page size I will use in the finished piece for the paper edition.

As mentioned by someone else, the use of styles creates the easiest way to adjust things and I rely on styles heavily.

The internal formatting for the finished paper edition can vary so you might want to wait and decide if you do page breaks at the end of a chapter or section breaks-- and that could vary with the word processor that you use. Header and footer for page numbers and book title and author name at the top of the pages can wait but if you want to have a real feel for how the pages will look in the final piece you might want to consider putting them in.

The thing about styles is--that if you change your mind later it is easier to adjust everything in a couple of clicks to adjust the styles and the whole document changes.

If you go traditional then you want to find out what the submission guidelines are.

 

[-K2-]

Thanks everyone for your input. I've been considering and looking into everything posted. Though I have a bit of learning regarding "styles," and why to use them (vs. say simply altering fonts as I go along), it gives me a good start. How much of it is available in the version of Word I use, 97, I'll just have to discover.

Thanks again!

K2

 

[Susan Boulton]

I tend to write in word, everything double spaced, New times roman, or New courier, size 12. Single space after a full stop, first paragraph in a chapter or scene break not indented, all those after in said scene indented. Chapter number or name centred. Italics underlined (old fashioned, but can be quickly changed depending or publishers requirement.) Double speech marks, not single. Page number in header at the bottom centred. Title of story, and my name in the header at the top to the left. Really a basic version of submission format for publishers. I can tweak it as needs be come submission re the publishers guidelines (always follow them to the letter). I find this is easy to read on screen, and print out easy for notes.

 

[Vince W]

I just came across this article about formatting a manuscript in Word.
Formatting Like a Microsoft Word Ninja

 

[tinkerdan]

Very good article and quite on the spot.

I just came across this article about formatting a manuscript in Word.
Formatting Like a Microsoft Word Ninja

However, in the last few paragraphs I couldn't help noticing that the author needs to have someone edit his work or maybe he just needs to repair those errors himself.

 

[Phyrebrat]

Have you heard of Scrivener? It’s an outstanding little programme that is tailor made for writers and part of its function is the kind of thing you’re after. There’re a few threads on it here on Chrons and quite a few of us use it.

I couldn’t even begin to write without it; not even my challenge entries!

pH

 

[-K2-]

Thanks everyone, I'm looking at everything suggested and even gaining ideas from those suggestions to look elsewhere.

K2

 

[psychotick]

Hi,

I just use Word 2000 or Libre Office, write in block paragraphs, times new roman, single space and justifying margins when I write. I don't touch any formatting until after the editing is done.

After that I'll add a small indent to the text, (leaving the blank lines as well since it looks awesome on a page to have both) do chapter headings and TOC, add title pages, headers and footers etc. Yeah it takes a few hours to format a book, but I'd rather not distract myself with any of that stuff while I'm doing the creative part.

One thing I should mention, I make two formatted versions - one for ebook, one for paper. The paper version is taken from the ebook version, and altered to give a new title page, remove TOC, change headers and footers and change "ebook edition" to "paperback edition". It's also reformatted to size. These changes can be done in a matter of minutes and if at some later date I have to remove a typo etc, I do it in the ebook version and then copy it back to the paper edition making sure never to have different editions between the two formats.

Cheers, Greg.

 

[Plucky Novice]

Have you heard of Scrivener? It’s an outstanding little programme that is tailor made for writers and part of its function is the kind of thing you’re after. There’re a few threads on it here on Chrons and quite a few of us use it.

I couldn’t even begin to write without it; not even my challenge entries!

pH

I couldn't agree more, it's a brilliant bit of software. Particularly if you have a single screen set up like I do.

I love the fact I can open one file and have my outline, draft by chapter, research, ideas etc, all there and put two on the screen at once.

 

[-K2-]

@Phyrebrat & @Plucky Novice ;

I have looked over Scrivener a few times now, and I'm at something of a loss as to how it can help me. As it stands using Word-97... yeah, you read that right, I'm able to perform many of the tasks already. Some of the features I would never use such as typing out a phrase or scene, and then inserting it later. That among other things simply doesn't run with my way of thinking. A work-index I already create, I can already view screens side by side, my reference materials I can also view at the same time and the list goes on.

Granted, I've been using a PC a long time and organization for me has always been of paramount importance, so, perhaps I simply have a working system that I know already...

That said, I'm not adverse to trying new things and learning new ways. However, I don't like spending time on something that doesn't yield significant results. Would you possibly tell me which features of the software most help you? That might bring up something that I haven't considered.

Thanks!

K2

 

[Plucky Novice]

If you search there are videos online that give an overview. Imo you can probably replicate most of the functionality in word but not easily. The advantage to scrivener for me, is that its slick and easy for single screen use. I could not do in word what I do in Scrivener but maybe you can.

I don't have to waste time trying to manipulate multiple windows in word, I can just focus on writing.

Some things are better in word, such as grammar checks and thesaurus.

 

[Phyrebrat]

Sorry k2. It’s not the kind of thing I fancy going into again - (with respect and no offence at you, it’s just it’s come up so often there are plenty of threads on it here.)

Try as advised above and have a look on YouTube. There’ll be far more helpful things you can look at there, and most of the stuff is very short.

But if Word works for you why worry?

I know that if I don’t have Scrivener (on my iPhone iPad, MacBook and iMac) I won’t write. It integrates so seamlessly with other devices I don’t have to worry about back ups and transferring etc. If someone was to ask me to write using word processors such as pages or word I’d just play video games instead


pH

 

[psychotick]

Hi,

I also use Word 2000 and Libre Office which is very similar. They're perfectly good writing software. Maybe they could use a few more features, but I don't plan on learning a new system just for those things. I haven't even upgraded to Word 2007, because they changed the interface so drastically and I don't want to have to deal with that. (I don't think the geeks at Microsoft have worked out the simple rule - change is bad. if you want to change something you'd better have a bloody good reason!)

My advice is to stick to what you know. What you're comfortable with. And whatever you use, make your upload file a .doc or a .dotx.

Cheers, Greg.

 

[AlexH]

I have a good trick that may or may not work for forums. I write in standard manuscript format, but when it comes to posting in forums, I paste into the box using Ctrl+Shift+V (there will be an Apple equivalent), which gets rid of the paragraph indents. It also gets rid of any other formatting like italics, and doesn't work in Opera because the keyboard shortcut does something else.

 

[scarpelius]

@AlexH Hey, neat trick I am an old windows user but I didnt know about it.

 

[Karn's Return]

Self-publishing is a lot easier, but some might see it as cheating in a way. I've only ever sent in a single item for submission to a publisher, but if I remember correctly, the technical side of things wasn't why they had rejected it.

That said, publishers can be pretty picky...but it all depends on your situation, whether you format as you write, or after everything is done, or even at the start, one and done. Personally, my eyes are in pretty bad shape, so I tend to need to have text a little larger than most people like so I can read things a little more clearly. Like I said, it all depends on you, but I'd at least wait until you have the rough draft down before messing with formatting. It's a form of editing, after all, and honestly, editing can wait until the entire idea is laid out.