Is Lucasfilm killing Star Wars?

WaylanderToo

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#43
I really don't know why it can't just be accepted that TLJ was a poor film. Having SJW leanings probably didn't help but beyond all that it was poor.
 

Venusian Broon

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#44
I really don't know why it can't just be accepted that TLJ was a poor film. Having SJW leanings probably didn't help but beyond all that it was poor.
Depends, I found it a magnitude better than the prequels, hence found it okay. So, as ever , depends on your subjective views
 

soulsinging

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#45
From that piece:


Not exactly a big number, is it? :)
Nope, but that kind of reinforces my initial reaction... which is that it's kind of alarming that they didn't have to work very hard to get a lot of people running down that road with them.

Also of note in the article is that most of the people that supposedly hated TLJ for political reasons seemingly had little to no interest in Star Wars prior to choosing the film as a battlefield in their crusade. So there is truth to the notion that it's unfair to dismiss criticism of the film by fans and diehards as reactionary bias. It seems more likely that such TLJ reactionaries were useful idiots for Russian trolls from outside the actual fanbase than that there is a large, dark undercurrent of white supremacy among Star Wars fans.

Bottom line is there are a scary amount of people here ready to jump on board with some of these reactionary ideas planted by Russian trolls, but it's unclear how much of that is an actual reflection of the fanbases and how much is ideologues hijacking these debates at the unwitting direction of highly sophisticated trolls. It makes me wonder about Gamergate and Ghostbusters and some of these other nerd-culture misogyny outbreaks?
 
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The Crawling Chaos

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#46
Nope, but that kind of reinforces my initial reaction... which is that it's kind of alarming that they didn't have to work very hard to get a lot of people running down that road with them.

Also of note in the article is that most of the people that supposedly hated TLJ for political reasons seemingly had little to no interest in Star Wars prior to choosing the film as a battlefield in their crusade. So there is truth to the notion that it's unfair to dismiss criticism of the film by fans and diehards as reactionary bias. It seems more likely that such TLJ reactionaries were useful idiots for Russian trolls from outside the actual fanbase than that there is a large, dark undercurrent of white supremacy among Star Wars fans.

Bottom line is there are a scary amount of people here ready to jump on board with some of these reactionary ideas planted by Russian trolls, but it's unclear how much of that is an actual reflection of the fanbases and how much is ideologues hijacking these debates at the unwitting direction of highly sophisticated trolls. It makes me wonder about Gamergate and Ghostbusters and some of these other nerd-culture misogyny outbreaks?
While I agree with pretty much everything above, I wonder why it's hard to believe that the reactionary jerks belonging to the so-called 'alt-right' who inundated social platforms with hate-filled speech simply acted out of their own accord, and that it had absolutely nothing to do with the similarly reactionary and hate-filled messages posted by this tiny number of Russian trolls.

Why are we so prompt to say that the Russian trolls triggered all this, without the smallest amount of evidence? Why is it so hard to assume that maybe, just maybe, there is an increasingly vocal minority of reactionary jerks out there, not in Russia or in Russian farm trolls, but amongst us, in Europe, in the US, etc. that actually act this way not because Russian trolls showed them the way but because that's what they want to do?

I guess it's much easier to find a culprit on the other side of the world than it is to acknowledge and cope with the rot in our own societies.

As far as I'm concerned, and I don't have numbers to back this up but I'd like to see numbers proving otherwise, Russian trolls have a minute and insignificant influence over the weak minds of a handful of teenagers who don't even believe in the things they share or repeat on social media, and will eventually grow out of it. And the majority of the people who filled Twitter and Facebook accounts with racist and misogynistic messages, well, they have nothing to do with Russian trolls. They are amongst us, and they don't need anyone else, Russian or otherwise, to say the things they say and think the way they think.
 

TheEndIsNigh

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#48
Well, I stopped watching the franchise after the three prequel nonsense. There comes a time when the stone just can't give any more blood.

I actually fell asleep during the last of the three it was so riveting.

Having extracted those three dollops of hard earned cash from me, I decided I would never watch another SW film again if I had to pay. Even now when I could effectively watch them for free I have resisted.

It's like the 007 nonsense.

Rehashing the storyline in a modern setting just makes me want to get my money back.

What's next in that franchise - Platinum Finger.

Coming soon Fu Manchu.
 

thaddeus6th

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#49
I thought The Last Jedi was the worst Star Wars film I've seen by some distance. (Not seen Solo, incidentally). Depressing to see the kind of online abuse etc that has been hurled around. I'd heard about one of the new characters (Rose?) being abysmal, but found here just so-so. Not everyone's going to be Han Solo (you could even argue Han Solo wasn't Han Solo in Return of the Jedi/Force Awakens).

TEIN, not going to go see You Only Live Thrice?
 

soulsinging

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#50
Why are we so prompt to say that the Russian trolls triggered all this, without the smallest amount of evidence?
Hopeful/wishful thinking? :LOL:

To respect the staff and bring it back to film, I feel like the prequels played into this a little bit. By pretty much every measure, TFA and R1 were enormously successful and embraced enthusiastically by fans. I can't help but think that any step back was inevitably going to recall the bitter disappointment the prequels were and set off some overreaction on both the pro and con side. There really seems to be no middle with this one... it's either a bold new direction for the franchise or ill-considered garbage. Nobody seems to think it was ok.

I stand by my sentiment that the big mistake was not having an overarching plan for the trilogy and letting each director do whatever they wanted with the story. It's one thing to say you want to break free of the EU or discard George's original vision for 7-9 after what he did with the prequels, but to say you've got no plan whatsoever and are literally letting the writers/directors make each installment up as they go is absurd. Whether you want to blame Disney or Lucasfilm for that is up to you.
 

soulsinging

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#51
The films were executed in less than desirable ways, but the story is fantastic. I wish there had been a fourth prequel that was all about Order 66 and the hunting of the Jedi and the early days of Vader. That would have been a tremendous movie, and if you have doubts, check out the new Vader comic that starts immediately after Revenge of the Sith. Some of the best stories in all of Star Wars.
This. Lucas had the seeds of a great Shakespearean tragedy with the story of Anakin, had he decided to tell it. Film one should have been what Clone Wars was... the start of the clone wars and bonding of Kenobi and Anakin as the leading generals of the republic/Jedi. AotC/RotS should have been 2... where the clone wars and influence of palpatine lures him to the dark side, and film 3 should have been Order 66/Rebels... the extinction of the Jedi, rise of the empire, birth of the rebellion and showdown between Anakin and Obi-Wan.
 

Culhwch

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#54
I stand by my sentiment that the big mistake was not having an overarching plan for the trilogy and letting each director do whatever they wanted with the story. It's one thing to say you want to break free of the EU or discard George's original vision for 7-9 after what he did with the prequels, but to say you've got no plan whatsoever and are literally letting the writers/directors make each installment up as they go is absurd. Whether you want to blame Disney or Lucasfilm for that is up to you.
Couldn't agree more. To go from Abrams' mystery box approach, to Johnson disregarding those set-ups, was jarring. And god knows what we're going to get with Abrams taking back over...

This. Lucas had the seeds of a great Shakespearean tragedy with the story of Anakin, had he decided to tell it. Film one should have been what Clone Wars was... the start of the clone wars and bonding of Kenobi and Anakin as the leading generals of the republic/Jedi. AotC/RotS should have been 2... where the clone wars and influence of palpatine lures him to the dark side, and film 3 should have been Order 66/Rebels... the extinction of the Jedi, rise of the empire, birth of the rebellion and showdown between Anakin and Obi-Wan.
Yep, this is exactly the prequel trilogy I wanted to see. My biggest disappointment with those movies are the huge opportunities missed.
 

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