Co-authoring Issues

[monsterchic]

Greetings.

I'm in the middle of writing a short story with someone (it's fan fiction so it's not super important, but we may publish at some point), and GODS, they infodump like a mofo. I'm largely in charge of the editing, but it's at the point where I almost need to do a total rewrite.

Any suggestions on how to bring that up without being a total dick? I don't want to seem overbearing or like I'm writing the whole project, but something needs to be done. And it's a project I'd like to finish, as I think the story could really go places.

 

[Toby Frost]

This is a difficult one to answer. I have to say that I'd find co-authoring very difficult. My first thoughts are (ominously): (1) Do you like this person and (2) How good do you want this story to be? I'm no expert on fan fiction, but unless you do a 50 Shades and file off all the details, the original author will retain rights in it and it will be hard to commercially exploit.

That aside, how you approach it depends on the person (how well they take criticism, whether they care etc) and whether you're prepared to let the infodumping happen. I suppose you could tell them that, if both of you are going to do this seriously, you both (ie they) need to learn the techniques, and refer them to one of the better how-to-write books out there. Is there some sort of agreement as to how the editing works, and who gets final say?

 

[monsterchic]

I do like the person, and not planning on publishing it for money, just on Archive of Our Own. I want it to be good. We're each writing several characters, so I'm wondering if I should just leave it at "Hey, here's my parts and here is theirs, make of it what you will," as we're splitting the different characters into chapters.

They take criticism...okay. Not great and I might get yelled at, but eventually they come around. I've got editing control and generally final say, unless they really, REALLY want to leave something in. Generally they defer to me, though.

 

[The Judge]

Is the other chap/chapess at the same level of writing accomplishment as you are? If not, and you're the superior writer, then you could approach it in a teaching-y way ie you've struggled to avoid info-dumping yourself, only getting there after various critiques/lessons/whatever, and here are some tips that might help. If the two of you are of the same standard, then it may be you have different tolerance levels for it, in which case you'll have to explain that and say that as you're in charge of editing you will take a firm line against it and chuck it back for a re-write.

Frankly, though, if it's only a short and fan fiction and you want to stay friends, it might not be worth the hassle of bringing it up. If you ever think it could go somewhere in longer form, that might be the time to make a stand and/or get an editor in to deal with it.

In any event, you ought to have some agreement in place as to your arrangement (eg will one of you be able to exploit the story without the other participating in the future?) so if that's not already done, start thinking about terms now and include the editing issue as one of the points to cover.

 

[J Riff]

Sneaky solution>>>> Pretend to send if off to a 'pro' editor, maybe someone from here, make the changes yourself, including some to your bits, to make it look good, and... no, nevermind, maybe try... reverse psychology, instead.

 

[sknox]

Why do you identify it as infodump? What harm does it do to the story? Possibilities include: it isn't directly relevant (could be placed elsewhere), it's not at all relevant (let's use it in some other story or as a background essay in a wiki), we're in the middle of an action sequence here!, it's just plain too much (maybe spread it out). Another possibility: the information is actually useful and necessary here, but it's poorly written.

The first thing I'd do is purge infodump from the conversation. The word is not helpful. It's short-hand for "I found this bit boring." The point of the previous paragraph is to show how you might break the topic into digestible bits.

Especially with fanfic, there's a tendency to want to explain. A lot. The goal is to get the reader to think first about the story--specifically plot and character--and sketch in setting and background where it's unavoidable. Then you can work on points for style.

You may be working with someone who wants to write that stuff and for who telling a particular story is merely secondary. And who may not be clear in their own minds of the distinction. That's going to come down to interpersonal relations, at which point I bail. The only interpersonal relations I'm any good at are the imaginary ones.

 

[monsterchic]

TJ--they're not at the same level as I am yet. I did seek the advice of one of my managers at work, of all places, as she's really good at having hard conversations without coming off as a dick, and she said to put it in the form of "Hey, this is something you're doing good, and this is something to work on/keep in mind. I appreciate the effort and think you're doing well." That may be the way to go.

Sknox--it's useful and necessary information, but having a character spout off sounding like a history book isn't too pleasurable lol. I just need to find a way to help the person see that there's a difference between getting the information out there and actually making it engaging to the audience. I'm hoping she'll read some of my work and I can lead by example.

Any way I go about it, though, I think I'll try to keep our chapters separate.

 

[Penny]

Criticism is very important in writing, let them know that you want to raise some issues if they are willing to hear it. - This bit is important because it brings them into the situation with agency, its not just you telling them a bunch of stuff. it becomes them asking to hear it.

If they say they are willing to hear the criticism then tell them that you are not personally attacking them and that your criticism comes from you wanting the story to be its best.

Discuss your issues and explain the problems you see, hear them! don't just say oh all this is bad and needs to be re done!
go through each point and talk about it, co-operate and work with them to re-write the parts you think need work.
afterwards have them look through your work and re do some of that.

Criticism can be very damaging to a persons ego and self esteem if not handled with great care. it is easy to accidentally come off as being condescending or superior when you critique something, through every stage let them know that its not personal.

Try to show them what is wrong so that they understand why it is wrong.

If you take this approach your working relationship will improve and they will in future accept criticism more.

Remember your partner's opinions matter just as much as your own.

This comes from working on making computer games in a team btw, not exactly the same thing but you still have to talk things through with each-other.