Star Trek - Discovery - 1.11: The Wolf Inside

Jax

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Then, Why did the Discovery change theirs from NCC to ISS?
They didn't.
They changed it from USS to ISS.



NCC stands for naval construction contract and is pretty universal to any starfleet vessel from either universe.
USS stands for united star ship (for the United federation)
ISS stands for Imperial star ship (for the Empire)
 
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Amelia Faulkner

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except did we know that Saru was so strong?
We did, yes. Remember the huge problems Michael and Ash had when they were on the planet with the living crystals and Saru became convinced he had to stop Michael sending the transmission? Saru's race are exceptionally strong and incredible long-distance runners.

Question, as I may have missed it: How exactly did Saru know to pick up Ash's floating body? How long range are the Discovery's transporters? From what I saw there was no time between MU Saru pulling Ash off Michael to Michael being marched to the transporter room and "executing" Ash.
 

ctg

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How long range are the Discovery's transporters?
Thousands of kilometres. I believe that at Earth they can beam to Moon and back, but whenever they've done long range transmissions it has been very far away by our standards, but in the galactic distances 1000+ km is a very short distance.

According to The Original Series (TOS) writers' guide, the effective range of a transporter is 40,000 kilometers, although thick layers of rock can reduce this range (TNG: "Legacy"). The TOS episode "Obsession" however, appears to indicate that the transporters' maximum range, during that time period in Star Trek history, is actually around 30,000 kilometers.

...

The TNG episode "Bloodlines" features a dangerous and experimental "subspace transporter" capable of interstellar distances and the Dominion had the ability to transport over great distances (DS9: "Covenant"). The 40,000-kilometer limit is also referenced in ENT: "Daedalus".
Transporter (Star Trek) - Wikipedia

Even if the distance was 30k, it's still close enough to be picked up close range scanner. At maximum, Discovery was 60k away and in the ST universe that is nothing as the long range scanners can identify objects light years away. Whatever the distance was, human body can survive around 15 second in the vacuum of space. So, the Discovery could had been further away, when Burnham executed Ash, they could have done a short jump and still get there in time to pick Ash from getting turned to a frozen interstellar object. Therefore, I would accept the possibility that they were outside the planetary space, hundreds of thousands kilometres away, and they managed to make it in time to pick up Michael's little package.
 

Dave

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Question, as I may have missed it: How exactly did Saru know to pick up Ash's floating body?
That is a good question.

Communications can be secured (the earlier one between Tilly and Michael was) but we didn't see a communication, and someone would surely ask why she is making so many communications with the Discovery? (I got the feeling that co-operation between Captains was unusual. This is a dog-eat-dog world and all the Captains are in competition for the Emperor's attention.)

He may have just been waiting and observed the beam out. Unlikely, as it is a bit of a risk he might miss it. It would also ask the question, did he see the earlier three and just leave them to die?
 

ctg

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It would also ask the question, did he see the earlier three and just leave them to die?
Possibly. They have no need to save any MU people. I just wonder if they changed back and the real Captain Tilly has continued slaughtering enemies, will the StarFleet vessels shoot Discovery on sight?
 

Cli-Fi

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The Klingons in TOS who looks like swarthy humans with moustaches have all been genetically altered.

This is fine, but doesn't gel with TNG and DS9 - the whole 'way of the warrior' Klingon philosophy with Worf; the episode, I forget, that dealt with Klingons not believing in battlefield triage; not to mention Kor, Koloth, and Kang all coming back with ridges in DS9: Blood Oath. Altering themselves to look human would be an anathema to a Klingon from TNG and DS9 but, then, changing back again doesn't seem very likely
Do you have a phd in Star Trek or something? I think as Klingons got out of their shell and actually accepted help from other cultures, they reverted back to more extreme traditions or maybe it was just Worf's own twisted version of those traditions. He got more extreme in certain episodes but at least he never went too extreme. All religions have their hypocrisies so why wouldn't worshipers of Kahless?
 

Dave

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Do you have a phd in Star Trek or something?
Just a long-time fan. Watched TOS as a child. Hated the first film. Didn't watch second or third. Loved fourth and realised the second was actually quite good. Big fan of TNG. Bigger fan of DS9. Eventually got bored with VOY and the films. Hardly watched ENT at all, although it was getting better when it was cut. Don't like new films.

So, I didn't have very high expectations for Discovery, but it is excellent. However, I do online role-playing and I used to have a Klingon character. So, I did think I knew something about the Klingon psyche, at least, the way they were portrayed in TNG and DS9. I don't understand these Discovery Klingons, they are like a completely different species. As I said though, if you look at Discovery as a sequel to Enterprise then they are consistent.

I had wanted them to make a series set on an Imperial Klingon ship in the Voyager era, some IKS Battle Cruiser.

Anyway, slightly off-topic. Yes, I think, as you say, we are meant to believe that the Klingons experimented to become more human-like, but then realised the error of their ways and went back to their origins. A kind of Klingon fundamentalism.
 

Amelia Faulkner

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It would also ask the question, did he see the earlier three and just leave them to die?
I suspect Saru would have rescued them if he noticed them. He's too compassionate not to have.

But he appeared to know before finding it that Ash had the data on him and where to find it.
 

Khuratokh

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I suspect Saru would have rescued them if he noticed them. He's too compassionate not to have.

But he appeared to know before finding it that Ash had the data on him and where to find it.
Also, prior to beaming Tyler aboard, they assumed Stamets killed Culber in between lucid states. Now they knew the true identity of Tyler and who he killed.

Rant:
Culber's murder bothers me no end, again we have a high ranking crewmember stupidly getting himself killed. Previously we had commander Landry, who had witnessed firsthand the Tardigrade slaughtering it's way through hordes of Klingons and shrugging off phaser fire. But once aboard she thought she could de-claw easily de-claw it on her own.

Here we have Culber confronting Tyler, who he suspects of being a klingon sleeper agent, all on his own, without a single nurse or doctor present, No cameras, no logfiles. All during wartime.
As previously discussed in the ep. 10, it all felt like the "bury your gays" trope.
See Andi's column at WomenAtWarp
A Painful Discovery
Rant over.

I do like they didn't drag out the story of Tyler's true identity.
From Culber's analysis, I'm assuming there once was an original human Tyler, who they butchered for parts and memories. Culber mentions Tyler's spine had been replaced.

Tangent on the Klingons:
Enterprise in part expanded on their lore, but also lessened their depth. After TNG, DS9 and to a lesser extent Voyager gave them some much-needed nuance, Enterprise started out with portraying them as moronic orcs again. Though later on they were changed back, thankfully.
Following Soong's augments disastrous incursion into Klingon space, where they easily plowed through hundreds of Klingon warriors, Klingon high command sanctioned research into creating augments of their own.
Their scientists, having only Soong's research as a starting point and under enormous pressure by the council, made a right targ's ear of things. Leading to a genetic plague and eventually to the smooth-forehead-klingons.

Either that or Worf's comment in DS9's "Trials and Tribbleations"
" It is not something we discuss with other species"
Works for me.

Back on topic.
I'm glad Detmer has gotten more screentime, her Mirror counterpart has even gotten to speak a few lines! Also this version doesn't have an eye-implant, leading me to wonder what exactly happened to Prime Detmer.
I wanted more screentime for the bridge crew, i guess I'll have to settle for this.
 

Dave

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Here we have Culber confronting Tyler, who he suspects of being a klingon sleeper agent, all on his own, without a single nurse or doctor present, No cameras, no logfiles. All during wartime.
As previously discussed in the ep. 10, it all felt like the "bury your gays" trope.
I was skeptical of the whole "trope" thing but when you put it that way, he really is unlikely to have died without someone there or on camera, and so he was deliberately chosen. The Landry thing is still stupid. I'd forgotten about that.

I do like they didn't drag out the story of Tyler's true identity.
I think it wouldn't be possible to keep it a secret much longer. They did a tremendous job keeping it secret last year; the lengths they went to, made anyone who had suggested it, look like a conspiracy theorist, comparable with a flat Earth believer with tin hat on - actually giving a false actor for Voq's part. Also, if you watch the After Trek, the the relief Shazad Latif showed at being finally able to talk about it. It must be really hard keeping that kind of secret in this age of social media, so they did well.
 

Dave

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This article is SO spot on!
Yes, it's like saying, "I did eat that whole tray of cream cakes, but I'm going to go the gym for the rest of the year," or, "I did reverse your car into the wall, but I'll buy you an annual rail season ticket." It still happened, and I can't believe that the writer admits he did it deliberately, with full knowledge that what he was doing, and that it was lazy writing, but somehow thinks he is redeemed by resurrecting the character later.
 

ctg

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It still happened, and I can't believe that the writer admits he did it deliberately, with full knowledge that what he was doing, and that it was lazy writing, but somehow thinks he is redeemed by resurrecting the character later.
I wouldn't call it lazy writing. Sometimes you are most hardest to your own kind. I also doubt gay love is dead in the Trek. They already got second season, and we hardly know most of the characters as there are so much to explore in the Discovery's future. What I do admit is that some things might be more difficult since they're situated in the Mirror Universe instead of being in the Prime one. All we know that everything that we consider as bad is major norm in that dimension. So, I was surprised to see a member of Saru's species serving Michael as personal servant. Why would they use other species, if they hate them so much?
 

Cli-Fi

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I wouldn't call it lazy writing. Sometimes you are most hardest to your own kind. I also doubt gay love is dead in the Trek. They already got second season, and we hardly know most of the characters as there are so much to explore in the Discovery's future. What I do admit is that some things might be more difficult since they're situated in the Mirror Universe instead of being in the Prime one. All we know that everything that we consider as bad is major norm in that dimension. So, I was surprised to see a member of Saru's species serving Michael as personal servant. Why would they use other species, if they hate them so much?
Hypocrisy. Just like how when the Klingons finally accepted help from the Federation they reverted back more towards a traditional religion with Kahless.
 
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