Why are people so obsessed with WW2?

[psikeyhackr]

WW2 would have occurred with or without any nuclear weapons, as the roots of the conflict (and the reason the French wanted to claim Vietnam in 1945) all go back hundreds of years, well before 1800, I would contend.

But how important would ICBMs be without nuclear weapons and how much rocket and electronics development would not have been forced so fast without them? I am not talking about the cause of WWII but the synergy of technology resulting from it. ENIAC was used for hydrogen bomb calculations after the Japanese surrendered even though the project was started for artillery ballistics.

Google Ngram Viewer

Curious how much the use of the word 'technology' has changed since 1960.

psik

 

[Caledfwlch]

Well, I can see one immediate major difference, and effect of a WW2 where Nuclear Fission and a resulting Atomic weapon, is just a dream, but as in OTL, the Nazi's are still developing V1, V2, and whatever they had planned beyond them.

New York Skyscrapers being blown part, and New Yorkers in their hundreds, maybe thousands, given it's population density dying, as long range German Missiles slam into the City, and other's day and night. The war being brought right to the front door of US Civilians, actually facing what Europe had for several years is bound to have an incredible impact on the American Psyche, maybe leading to a post WW2 USA that is either more Isolationist than ever in the past, or far more aggressive in dealing with threats such as Communism.

The possibility of Revenge Weapons dropping chemical, gas and nerve weapons on those civil populations. The whole point of long range weapons, is, they are long range, thus could have been placed well out of the reach of Allied Aircraft, and realistic Land or Naval military intercept, and hammered allied cities, or armies from afar.

Plus think of the massive burst and boost of technology created by the various Space Programmes - ICBM's were IOTL designed to deliver atomic weapons around the world, but the technology soon became obvious as a tool to enable Space Exploration, manned flight, launching Satellites and so on, so just because you don't have Nukes to screw on the end, doesn't mean you don't get all sorts of massive technological and other advances, such as intelligence from orbital spying etc.

 

[Dave]

Google Ngram Viewer

Curious how much the use of the word 'technology' has changed since 1960.

I hadn't realised that Google had been around since 1880.

 

[Dave]

More seriously, that is a great tool. I added "philosophy" which hardly changed over time and also "mass-destruction," the use of which is negligible.

 

[psikeyhackr]

Plus think of the massive burst and boost of technology created by the various Space Programmes - ICBM's were IOTL designed to deliver atomic weapons around the world, but the technology soon became obvious as a tool to enable Space Exploration, manned flight, launching Satellites and so on, so just because you don't have Nukes to screw on the end, doesn't mean you don't get all sorts of massive technological and other advances, such as intelligence from orbital spying etc.

I am not saying the space exploration would not happen, I am only saying it would not have happened nearly as fast. The US freaked when the Russians launched Sputnik, largely because they already had the atomic bomb by then. The detonated an A-bomb in 1949 partly as a result of spies in the Manhattan Project. Integrated Circuits were to expensive in 1959, but the US military and NASA started buying them and the downward price spiral started.

While the relationship between rocket technology and ICs would remain strong, another key project that created demand for ICs and therefore spurred the widespread use of chips was the United State’s Minuteman missile program. The Minuteman missile program began in the early 1960s as part of the Cold War nuclear arms build-up. A Minuteman missile is an intercontinental ballistic missile or ICBM, which means it is shot into outer space and then falls to earth. Minuteman missiles could be guided to their targets from earth stations or aircraft, but engineers wanted a design that would have an on-board navigational computer. To do so, they turned to the new technology of ICs. Because hundreds of missiles would be made, each using thousands of chips, the program’s demand for ICs was high. Like the demands made by NASA, this meant that certain chips would have to be mass-produced. Engineers met this need and by 1964 Texas Instruments successfully tested a navigational computer based on a set of ICs. While not the only uses for ICs in these years, the guaranteed market and premium prices paid by the NASA and military in the early days of the IC were decisive factors in ensuring the success of this new technology, and led toward mass-produced, low-cost chips for personal computers and other systems.

Integrated Circuits and the Space Program and Missile Defense - Engineering and Technology History Wiki

What opened the door for the first microprocessors, then, was the application of MOS integrated circuits to computing. The first computer to be fashioned out of MOS-LSI chips was something called the D200, created in 1967 by Autonetics, a division of North American Aviation, located in Anaheim, Calif.

This compact, 24-bit general-purpose computer was designed for aviation and navigation. Its central processing unit was built from 24 MOS chips and benefitted from a design technique called four-phase logic, which used four separate clock signals, each with a different on-off pattern, or phase, to drive changes in the states of the transistors, allowing the circuitry to be substantially simplified. Weighing only a few kilograms, the computer was used for guidance on the Poseidon submarine-launched ballistic missile and for fuel management on the B-1 bomber. It was even considered for the space shuttle.

The D200 was followed shortly by another avionics computer that contained three CPUs and used in total 28 chips: the Central Air Data Computer, built by Garrett AiResearch (now part of Honeywell). The computer, a flight-control system designed for the F-14 fighter, used the MP944 MOS-LSI chipset, which Garrett AiResearch developed between 1968 and 1970. The 20-bit computer processed information from sensors and generated outputs for instrumentation and aircraft control.

The Surprising Story of the First Microprocessors

psik

 

[psikeyhackr]

Darkest Hour | Focus Features

LOL

 

[psikeyhackr]

Hiroo Onoda, Soldier Who Hid in Jungle for Decades, Dies at 91

 

[Danny Creasy]

I never was into the world wars and stuff but why are a lot of people so obsessed with WW2 though?

This Quora response to the same question is pretty good:

 

[Danny Creasy]

Oh, yes, "cool airplanes" —

 

[Russiano]

There are tons of games, books, conspiracy theories, movies, etc concerning world war two.I never was into the world wars and stuff but why are a lot of people so obsessed with WW2 though?

From the Russian perspective, the most important matter is, of course, not celebrating the victory but human lives lost. It took away every man in paternal grandfather's case in my family and it's nothing special here. This alone made almost all Soviet women to raise all children and do hard work by themselves independently (obviously, due to the fact that so many men were dead or missing).
There are many eerie stories like Lyuban Offensive Operation near to Myasnoy Bor, — just a ground pregnant with bones today. Although its surroundings still have a few citizens, they look abandoned and a vast part of the area has turned into a swamp. This one refers to me personally, because this is where my grandfather died, and yet his name isn't mentioned on the memorial stone which treasures victims of that bloodbath. It was a slaughter with Soviet people scarcely having any weapons to fight back. The betrayal of general Vlasov with further blaming him for everything gone wrong on that day made the whole operation forgotten, a ghost. Victory Parade never mentions it, people who live in Myasnoy Bor have never heard of it. Basically, the trace is gone and the case is closed. Sometimes I stumble across skeletons in monochrome photos made during excavations and wonder if there is grandfather among them. This is my own reason to be, as it's said, slightly obsessed with WW2.

As for the rest of the world, I don't think I'm allowed to speak for everyone but I have my assumption that it was world war. The more countries fight the less is hope that your own won't be involved if it ever happens again. Moreover, it was one of the deadliest global military conflicts that history has never seen before. Yugoslavia, as an example, lost 1/4 of its population. In addition, it was the first use of the atomic bomb in 1945. Not to forget thousands of rumours about Hitler and his suicide.

 

[psikeyhackr]

From the Russian perspective, the most important matter is, of course, not celebrating the victory but human lives lost. It took away every man in paternal grandfather's case in my family and it's nothing special here. This alone made almost all Soviet women to raise all children and do hard work by themselves independently (obviously, due to the fact that so many men were dead or missing).

That is one of the disgusting things about so called American history. With all of the WWII movies I saw on TV in the 60s and supposed history courses what happened to the Russians is hardly mentioned. Stalin allying with Hitler to invade Poland got more emphasis than the rest of the Eastern Front history. Then the Commies became bad guys after the war.

What would have happened if Hitler had not been stupid enough to invade Russia so the winter could kick the German armies ass?

 

[BAYLOR]

That is one of the disgusting things about so called American history. With all of the WWII movies I saw on TV in the 60s and supposed history courses what happened to the Russians is hardly mentioned. Stalin allying with Hitler to invade Poland got more emphasis than the rest of the Eastern Front history. Then the Commies became bad guys after the war.

What would have happened if Hitler had not been stupid enough to invade Russia so the winter could kick the German armies ass?

Hitler still would have lost the war , but it would have taken longer . Stalin signed the non aggression pact in the hopes of buying himself time . Sooner or later when his forces were ready, he would gone after Germany but not as an ally veto England and the US.

 

[psikeyhackr]

Hitler still would have lost the war , but it would have taken longer . Stalin signed the non aggression pact in the hopes of buying himself time . Sooner or later when his forces were ready, he would gone after Germany but not as an ally veto England and the US.

But the Western Front war could have lasted longer and atomic bombs could have been dropped on Germany.

 

[BAYLOR]

But the Western Front war could have lasted longer and atomic bombs could have been dropped on Germany.

That would likely have happened had Germany still been in the war.

 

[BAYLOR]

If the Axis had won that war, we would now be living in an age of darkness and despair.

 

[Edward M. Grant]

Then the Commies became bad guys after the war.

The Commies--not the ordinary Ivans who died by the millions in the war, but the ones running the country--were always bad guys. They just got a brief propaganda victory in the West while they were on 'our' side.

Stalin was never really on anyone's side but his own. One of the most (darkly) amusing things I've read about WW2 was that the other Russian leaders asked Stalin for a meeting after the Nazis invaded, and he thought it was because they planned to kill him, and was quite shocked when they didn't. Because that was exactly what he would have done in their position.

 

[Edward M. Grant]

If the Axis had won that war, we would now be living in an age of darkness and despair.

Which is basically what happened to the half of Europe that the Allies gave to Stalin.

Realistically, as you mentioned above, if Hitler had beaten Russia and Britain, he'd have seen his cities being vaporized a couple of years later. It's unlikely he could have developed nukes fast enough to retaliate before Germany was a radioactive wasteland... though, if he did, he'd have been able to launch them towards America by rocket, rather than having to build planes which could fly that far. America would have had to develop the B-52 or something much like it even earlier than they did (AFAIR they were working on a prop-driven trans-Atlantic bomber which was scrapped at the end of the war).

Edit: Duh, I'd forgotten the B-36. Apparently that was originally designed to bomb Germany from the US.

 

[BAYLOR]

Which is basically what happened to the half of Europe that the Allies gave to Stalin.

Realistically, as you mentioned above, if Hitler had beaten Russia and Britain, he'd have seen his cities being vaporized a couple of years later. It's unlikely he could have developed nukes fast enough to retaliate before Germany was a radioactive wasteland... though, if he did, he'd have been able to launch them towards America by rocket, rather than having to build planes which could fly that far. America would have had to develop the B-52 or something much like it even earlier than they did (AFAIR they were working on a prop-driven trans-Atlantic bomber which was scrapped at the end of the war).

Edit: Duh, I'd forgotten the B-36. Apparently that was originally designed to bomb Germany from the US.

With a range of 10,000 miles. A very impressive plane.

 

[Overread]

Honestly if Russia and the UK fell I suspect the USA would have ended the war and left Europe alone and found some means to peace with Germany. Yes they'd have possibly had the nukes at some stage (assuming a change in how the war went we might have seen the USA project hindered and not advanced as far/fast as the German); but with no actual country base in Europe any more it might have caused them to pull back.

Of course we can play "what if" till the cows come home because there are often so many variables its very hard to pin down what would or wouldn't have happened. Even if you can study all the actors there's always the element of chance - a stray shot kills someone important in battle; a prized warship takes a sudden bad hit and sinks crippling sea power; a coded communication gets translated early by a stroke of genius by a normal unknown person and suddenly a major battle has a huge change of result.

 

[BAYLOR]

Honestly if Russia and the UK fell I suspect the USA would have ended the war and left Europe alone and found some means to peace with Germany. Yes they'd have possibly had the nukes at some stage (assuming a change in how the war went we might have seen the USA project hindered and not advanced as far/fast as the German); but with no actual country base in Europe any more it might have caused them to pull back.

Of course we can play "what if" till the cows come home because there are often so many variables its very hard to pin down what would or wouldn't have happened. Even if you can study all the actors there's always the element of chance - a stray shot kills someone important in battle; a prized warship takes a sudden bad hit and sinks crippling sea power; a coded communication gets translated early by a stroke of genius by a normal unknown person and suddenly a major battle has a huge change of result.

All the Nazis knew how to do was conquer , pilfer,oppress and destroy . They lived by piracy. Hitler didn't understand economics nor did the vast majority of his underlings. The Nazi economy was parasitic in nature and only really worked at all when they were conqueing other nations and taking their business and resources to feed the war machine .