Growing back your limbs...

[Mouse]

I have a character who is immortal. She can die, but she comes back to life again and each time she comes back she's healed, obviously, though she has scars. I'm wondering then, what would happen if she had an arm chopped off. If she didn't die, she'd just have one arm. But if she died... would she grow the arm back when she came back to life? I'm about to write a torture scene and wondering about the mechanics of it all.

TIA.

 

[farntfar]

I'm thinking about Jack Harkness in Dr. Who and Torchwood.
Didn't he get all fixed when he came back?
(Not to say you have to comply to his model. It all seemed rather too convenient sometimes)

Probably you want to do it which ever way is most useful to the story. (Maybe there are some conditions when she does grow back an arm ('cause otherwise you're stuck with a one armed heroine) and sometimes not ('cause she can cope with being 9-fingered. (And then maybe later she can grow the whole arm back WITH all the fingers and say 'hey. Will you look at that..... ))

 

[Mouse]

I don't watch Dr Who and Torchwood so didn't know Jack Harkness could do that! I'm thinking, logically, surely she has to be able to regenerate limbs or whatever cos what if she was decapitated? How would that work?! Not saying she'd grow her head back... or am I...

But yeah, I don't want it to be too convenient. I remember I stopped reading the Amber stories when what's-his-face grew his own eyeballs back cos I thought it was a cop out.

 

[Overread]

But if she died... would she grow the arm back when she came back to life? I'm about to write a torture scene and wondering about the mechanics of it all.

TIA.

It's kind of your choice on the mechanics of your characters immortality.
It sounds like your character has very powerful regeneration set in a world where souls/spirits/ghosts exist. Thus being able to regenerate from significant injury including head loss/damage; without loss of memory.
Or is it just body regeneration and significant loss of brain matter/head would result in total or mostly memory loss

The number of possible situations are legion so really you have to muddle through and make the choice. It sounds like you need to step back from the story for a moment and consider the mechanics of your character so that you better know what you can/cannot do with them. And if that changes the story too much you might need to adjust the mechanics, which might mean you have to change earlier parts of the story to ensure that things remain consistent.

 

[farntfar]

I think being immortal is a bit too convenient all by itself.
Getting your arm back at the same time is probably just a detail.

As for Jack, I think once he got crushed to bits and came back good as new, annoying grin and everything, but that was part of the joke (???)

 

[Mouse]

Ta. Hmm... I'd not even considered memory loss or anything like that from head injuries but so far she's died from a gunshot wound, a snapped neck and... I can't remember what else. I have it so that she's a clean freak, and she's a clean freak because in her mind she's thinking she's going to get some nasty illness and have to live with the effects for all eternity (unless of course she died and came back healed). That's why I kinda like the idea of her losing a limb meant it was lost for good (I guess if she had her head chopped off, somebody would have to hold her head against her neck while she healed!) but does that make the immortality stupid? Healing is regeneration, isn't it. I guess there has to be some sort of level.

 

[Cat's Cradle]

If she has the physiology of a human (except for that extra little gift of immortality), then I would expect that her organs are regenerated when she is restored to life. If she were killed, say, by having a sword run through her heart, I would expect the heart would have to be made whole for her to live again. So having the arm be there again when she is restored seems fine to me.

But then, you did mention that scars would carry over in her new life, and being physically perfect sounds boring... what if, when she comes back (when she is restored), she has a stunted, tiny, yet functioning arm where the whole limb would have been? That might be interesting (if it's acceptable for your character to have this sort of imperfection).

Or better yet, the arm could function independent of her will. Yuck!

 

[Dave]

Wouldn't the severed arm also grow into a complete individual too?

 

[Mouse]

If she has the physiology of a human (except for that extra little gift of immortality), then I would expect that her organs are regenerated when she is restored to life. If she were killed, say, by having a sword run through her heart, I would expect the heart would have to be made whole for her to live again. So having the arm be there again when she is restored seems fine to me.

But then, you did mention that scars would carry over in her new life, and being physically perfect sounds boring... what if, when she comes back (when she is restored), she has a stunted, tiny, yet functioning arm where the whole limb would have been? That might be interesting (if it's acceptable for your character to have this sort of imperfection).

Or better yet, the arm could function independent of her will. Yuck!

Imperfection is acceptable. I'm quite close to the end of the story so I'm thinking maybe if I have her lose whatever and then just not die between now and the end, I don't have to have her come back to life whole. Is that a cop out too?

Wouldn't the severed arm also grow into a complete individual too?

No, because the arm isn't her.

 

[Dave]

No, because the arm isn't her.

It's 9% of her!

 

[farntfar]

No, because the arm isn't her.

Why not?

Now I'm thinking about whatever his name was in the last few Buffys (Same actor as Mal in Firefly) who kept getting killed and coming back, until she sliced him in half with the magic axe.
Why didn't he come back then? and twice? Has the bit that's left got to be more than 50% of the original?
If so, if you cut her in 3 is she dead for good?


We're all really helping! You're getting more questions than answers.

 

[The Big Peat]

Is it possible that the powers of regeneration only work when dead, and as long as the soul is still in the body, she can't regenerate limbs?

 

[Mouse]

Caleb from Buffy. Loved that bit.

I'm thinking her soul's not in her arm...

That's what I'm thinking, Peat, so if she didn't die again after losing a limb then she'd never get it back.

 

[Dave]

More seriously, you should look at real animals that can regenerate: Urodele amphibians such as Salamanders and Newts can regrow limbs and organs, even eyes, but the limb can't grow into a whole. Why? It isn't because of genetics - each cell has all the genetic information required. I don't believe it is to do with the soul residing within the body, but you could certainly and believably write it that way. Do Immortals have souls though?

In cartoons, characters used to run after severed limbs and stick them back on. You should also look at the whole mythology of Zombies and Vampires.

 

[Mouse]

I was going to look into axolotls actually, ta.

I think she would have a soul, although she has commented that she goes nowhere and sees nothing when she dies.

 

[farntfar]

Caleb from Buffy. Loved that bit.

That's the one. Me too.
I knew it was a biblical name. I kept thinking of Nathaniel but that's because of the actor, I think.

Anyway, Caleb presumably didn't have a soul by then.

 

[Cathbad]

In Piers Anthony's Ogre, Ogre, the hero escaped imprisonment by allowing the ogres to eat him. He heals completely, so when he was passed as (eww), he regenerated and escaped!

So... anything's possible?

 

[Ihe]

Not saying she'd grow her head back... or am I...

Wouldn't the severed arm also grow into a complete individual too?

I recall an anime that dealt with this, or at least mentioned it (never finished it, so I don't know if they tackle the issue head on). The special group of immortal people the MC belongs to can regenerate from their bits, but it seems they only regenerate from the greatest body mass left together. So if they were decapitated, it is questioned if the rest of the body, being of greater mass, would grow a new head, instead of having the head grow a body (it is also very creepy as the chopped head would still be alive, so you'd be dealing with a clone of yourself--or would the new creature be different?--scary.)

 

[Ursa major]

Apologies for some idle musings....

I have a character who is immortal.

Could she actually be a person who thinks she's immortal (because of the recovering from death thing)?

What I mean is, how long has she been this way? How many scars has she? It seems to me that, if scars persist -- if scar tissue persists -- she'll eventually be mostly, if not all, scar tissue... which suggests she hasn't really been around very long.

 

[Abernovo]

As mentioned, some reptiles and amphibians have the capability to regrow limbs. We have the ability to regrow skin, a pretty major organ, in many respects. Someone I know researched bone regeneration, and helped produce treatment for osteoporosis. (There is a point.) Skin is reasonably easy, but bone and muscle is more difficult to regrow - muscle can be built up but, once damaged, does not always return the same.

So, your character might be able to regrow a limb (up to you if you want to allow it), but it might take time, and activity might prevent her resting enough to regrow it - e.g. more wear and tear on the muscles and joints adjoining the missing part, the energy requirement necessary, and the window to regrow might be limited before a more permanent scar tissue forms.

The other thing is that, as some things are easier to regrow than others, some parts of the body, the head, heart, etc. may be too important to regenerate on on their own. You can now get an artificial heart, or a transplant, and you could conceivably transplant your head in the future, but it would involve serious surgery with masses of bypass machines and life support. Way too complex to regrow before you expire, or collapse in on yourself in an eternal insanity if you were immortal.

There's probably a percentage amount of your body you could regrow at any one time, as well - 10%, 20%? Otherwise, you might end up like Caleb.