I've finished a first draft. Now what...?

[Martin Gill]

So I've written, and done a complete edit of my WIP. What now?

Obviously, get some people to read it and gather feedback, but what strategies do people adopt? How many readers? At what point would a pro edit be useful? I'm figuring the first wave of feedback may lead to plot changes so there's little point in getting an editorial view yet.

I know I then need stuff like a synopsis, a query, etc which I kind of half have but they need work. I'm more concerned now about the path form draft 1 to a pitchable product.

 

[millymollymo]

Congratulations. The end is only the begining. Now the real work starts.
You know all the things you "know"? Apply them
Write something else. Read lots of stuff. Get some distance. Read something else. Then read your work. Edit. Then, post extracts on the crits forum.

Right now...chill

 

[Stuart Suffel]

Beer?

Distance is important.
Udder dan dat...i dunno.
Beer?

 

[Steve Harrison]

I'm assuming a novel.

It depends whether you intend to self-publish or go the traditional route. Either way, feedback from readers is essential to get a different slant on the work.

If self-publishing, you will then need professional editing, proof reading, cover artwork etc. If trad, you need to make sure the manuscript is as perfect as you can make it without those professional services and then you can query agents or publishers, who, if they buy the work, will provide everything for you.

I went traditional, so I'm biased. I saw the work and effort put in by my publisher and self-publishing looks way too hard!

Oh, and my publisher told me something about the final edit that resonated with me: Writer's shouldn't edit their own work because the see what they meant and not what they wrote.

 

[millymollymo]

I'm assuming a novel.
Oh, and my publisher told me something about the final edit that resonated with me: Writer's shouldn't edit their own work because the see what they meant and not what they wrote.

That's fair advice once you know (as you do, Steve) that a first draft is no where near a completed manuscript ready for the traditional circles.
I don't know of any traditional editor who'll entertain an average first draft.
You're statement is right in so far as there should always be at least one other editor of completed work before it goes out to paying customers. But the more polished you make a piece, the better your critical feedback will be further down the line.
A huge industry has sprung up around the indie-publishing scene - and I am sorry to say, around the small presses too.

There are A LOT of freelance editors, book doctors, proof readers etc out there who will happily make the right noises and tell an author "That's great". It's what they are being paid to do. They want to be paid, so they aren't going to generate bad reviews for themselves on sites like Reedsy are they? In fact many exist as a check point before entering traditional subs to agents now. Being edited by certain names will bump you up the slush.
But.
If you don't edit you're own stuff, you never learn your own weaknesses. You'll be very lucky to hear back from agents or publishers.

Being self critical enough to know that the sentance doesn't flow, or the imagery doesn't connect will mean your hard earned cash stays in your pocket until you are confident enough that your work is above that "rip off" standard.
It makes your work better, and you as an author stronger.

When your MS meets the publishing editor's critial red pen they will know the world you're creating and clarify all the haze.

 

[tinkerdan]

I agree with those who suggest you let it sit: and age.
However it might not hurt to have someone give it a once over. Often that can tell a lot.

My first novel was way too long and I wasn't sure about a lot of things, however it was finished as in first draft finished.
Letting someone else have it for a while, they actually had it for over a month before they had time to work on it, and getting some feedback told me immediately that I had a lot of work cut out for me. At which time I had someone closer following my progress with notes and ideas so that I could bring things down to size and fix simple grammatical problems that were in the way of useful feedback.

After about ten rounds of that I sent it for some professional editing before it was ready.

 

[MemoryTale]

I agree with the let it sit crowd. I let mine sit for a couple of months, and my eyes were fresh again when I went back to it, and I could see problems that had never occurred to me before. After an edit run through I let it sit for another couple of months and found a few more problems. I do still recommend you post excerpts in the crits section. I've found just by posting a descriptive piece and a conversation I've got so much good advice that can be applied to the rest of the book.

Finally you'll reach the point where you can't even see the problems any more, and this is the point I'd think about looking for beta readers, reading bits out in a writer's group, anything you can do to get some fresh eyes on it. It may be by this point you think you've eliminated all the flaws, but a good beta-reader can soon set you straight again

And can I just say well done for finishing your first draft. It may only feel like a first step sometimes, but it's a bloody tough one to finish!

 

[Steve Harrison]

That's fair advice once you know (as you do, Steve) that a first draft is no where near a completed manuscript ready for the traditional circles.
I don't know of any traditional editor who'll entertain an average first draft.
You're statement is right in so far as there should always be at least one other editor of completed work before it goes out to paying customers. But the more polished you make a piece, the better your critical feedback will be further down the line.
A huge industry has sprung up around the indie-publishing scene - and I am sorry to say, around the small presses too.

There are A LOT of freelance editors, book doctors, proof readers etc out there who will happily make the right noises and tell an author "That's great". It's what they are being paid to do. They want to be paid, so they aren't going to generate bad reviews for themselves on sites like Reedsy are they? In fact many exist as a check point before entering traditional subs to agents now. Being edited by certain names will bump you up the slush.
But.
If you don't edit you're own stuff, you never learn your own weaknesses. You'll be very lucky to hear back from agents or publishers.

Being self critical enough to know that the sentance doesn't flow, or the imagery doesn't connect will mean your hard earned cash stays in your pocket until you are confident enough that your work is above that "rip off" standard.
It makes your work better, and you as an author stronger.

When your MS meets the publishing editor's critial red pen they will know the world you're creating and clarify all the haze.

Good points.

I should add that by the time I submitted my manuscript it was in good shape and the publisher said later that he doesn't accept work for publication that requires too much work. But they do have their own editors and his comment specifically referred to that final pass.

I don't advocate having professional editing prior to submitting to an agent or publisher. I might be wrong, but from my discussions they want to see what the writer can do entirely by him or herself and then edit and get the work in shape according to both the author and their particular house editing style and requirements.

If self-publishing, you need to source those services yourself if you want your book to be high quality in terms of both content and presentation.

 

[millymollymo]

If you don't edit you're own stuff, you never learn your own weaknesses.

I rest my case.

 

[Martin Gill]

Thanks all.

For clarity I'll explain exactly where I'm up to...

• Draft 1 was completed in early March.
• I've copy edited chapters as I write to eliminate errors - I tend to flip-flop between writing and editing depending on mood.
• I did a full edit and mop up of stray plot points etc which I finished last week.
• The first chapter has been critted twice on our crits page here and has evolved as a result.
• I'm a professional editor - I write and content edit business reports for a living, so I'm reasonably confident in my grammar - but I'm not a copy editor (we have a copy editing team I edit for concepts and ideas and narrative) so I fully intend to take at least one more pass at the thing. There's probably more places I can tighten sentences, etc.
• This is my second full novel. I've had people read the first one, give comments etc and did sub it to a couple of open calls last year, but i shelved it because I prefer this new concept.
• I'm erring towards Trad publishing as I can see self publishing being a tough job and I don't have an existing fan base
• The helpful advice here is really about how many beta readers do you go for? Do you go through iterations - one trusted reader, then changes, then back out to more?
• My rough plan is to give it to 3 or 4 people who I know understand the genre and are also competent writers as well, and who I know from experience will give honest feedback. Then deal with comments. Then probably do another iteration of 3 or 4 more folks. I'll probably throw up a couple more sections here as well to answer a couple of key questions I have. Does that sound like a solid plan or would people advise differently?

 

[MemoryTale]

Number of beta readers is very piece of string. Personally I've never shown something to more than a couple of people, as I feel too many voices will bring too many opinions. With that said I understand some writers on here have benefitted from having a lot of beta readers.

It probably depends on your beta reader's skill sets. Personally I don't count myself as strong on grammar, but I think I'm very good at finding plot holes and logic bombs, out of character moments and stuff like that.

 

[Brian G Turner]

what strategies do people adopt?

Well, if you're happy to move forward, I'd say post your first 1500 words up in the Critiques board to see if there are any signiicant issues people might mind (but if you've polished it well, you're still likely to get some good details to use).

And then, if still happy, send out to beta-readers. Which in my case are people better read in my target genre than I am.

 

[zmunkz]

My own model is to get to 2 or 3 "alpha" readers who are also writers, and workshop on a chapter-by-chapter basis. Use that feedback to write draft 2. Then look for 4 or 5 "beta" readers, who are NOT writers, but who read in your genre. Give them a month or two to get back to you, and don't look at the MS yourself once during that time. Gather all the feedback, give it a fresh read yourself, and bang out draft 3.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

It'a very individual and might take a bit of playing with to get right. Start with a couple of readers and take it from there?

 

[TheDustyZebra]

I'm a professional editor - I write and content edit business reports for a living, so I'm reasonably confident in my grammar - but I'm not a copy editor (we have a copy editing team I edit for concepts and ideas and narrative) so I fully intend to take at least one more pass at the thing. There's probably more places I can tighten sentences, etc.

I am a copy editor, and I can tell you that even I discover things that surprise me in my own writing. I have no trouble with grammar and spelling and punctuation, but you'd be amazed at the things that can creep in when you're tightening those sentences and doing your edit passes. I invariably find some little spot where I moved a bit of something around and accidentally left a word that didn't belong, or missed out a space or something. It's not the writing that creates problems for me, it's the editing.*


*Which I realize doesn't sound good for my editing business. What I mean to say, of course, is that, in one's own work, one tends to see what one thinks is there, and it doesn't matter how professionally picky one is, it still happens.

 

[Luiglin]

And then, if still happy, send out to beta-readers. Which in my case are people better read in my target genre than I am.

This is my biggest bug bear. Who, what, where can you find beta readers? I've had a real life friend promise to read my stuff but then couldn't be bothered (and it wasn't for the sake of my feelings, he's the most outspoken bloke I know). It's seems others on here seem to be able to find beta readers at the drop of a hat but it's like holy grail to me.

 

[Amelia Faulkner]

This is my biggest bug bear. Who, what, where can you find beta readers? I've had a real life friend promise to read my stuff but then couldn't be bothered (and it wasn't for the sake of my feelings, he's the most outspoken bloke I know). It's seems others on here seem to be able to find beta readers at the drop of a hat but it's like holy grail to me.

I won't deny it's hard AF. You have to try different people who do respond to find out which ones actually work best with you, lest you end up listening to rubbish feedback and making your work worse.

All I can say is I work best with mine by sending them chapters as and when the first draft of that chapter is written. That way they not only don't have to find time to read a massive novel all in one sitting, but also they can pull me up the moment I c*ck it up by saying "Hang on, didn't X happen three chapters ago? Why Y now?" instead of letting me get to the end then have to rewrite half the damn thing

 

[Luiglin]

I won't deny it's hard AF. You have to try different people who do respond to find out which ones actually work best with you, lest you end up listening to rubbish feedback and making your work worse.

All I can say is I work best with mine by sending them chapters as and when the first draft of that chapter is written. That way they not only don't have to find time to read a massive novel all in one sitting, but also they can pull me up the moment I c*ck it up by saying "Hang on, didn't X happen three chapters ago? Why Y now?" instead of letting me get to the end then have to rewrite half the damn thing

Thanks Amelia but I'm struggling how to even find a beta. At this stage even a bad one would be better than nothing

Is there so sort of beta reader dating web site or a betatinder app I can scroll left or right on.

I'm joking by the way but I honestly cannot find how to go about this. Sorry to take away from OP but I feel this sort of information would be useful to all noob writers like myself.

 

[Brian G Turner]

Who, what, where can you find beta readers?

Here, on chrons.

Firstly, use the Critiques section to post up work so other members know what sort of standard you are up to. The more polished your work looks, the more likely other members will be willing to read more.

Then look at the different sections, especially author boards - get an idea of who reads what, and what sort of comments and criticisms they make. Focus on which members are reading works you have already identified as most similar to your own. You could then simply message a couple of gauge whether they might want to, and refer to your Critiques posts so they know what you're capable of and whether this may or may not be for them personally.

That's one way to start, anyway.

 

[Luiglin]

Here, on chrons.

Firstly, use the Critiques section to post up work so other members know what sort of standard you are up to. The more polished your work looks, the more likely other members will be willing to read more.

Then look at the different sections, especially author boards - get an idea of who reads what, and what sort of comments and criticisms they make. Focus on which members are reading works you have already identified as most similar to your own. You could then simply message a couple of gauge whether they might want to, and refer to your Critiques posts so they know what you're capable of and whether this may or may not be for them personally.

That's one way to start, anyway.

Cheers Brian. I've wouldn't necessarily like to contact folks on here as I wouldn't want to impinge on their time. It's good enough that folks respond to the crits area as they do . I was just wondering if there were any other places where people found beta readers.