Five Kingdoms not Seven

[svalbard]

Martin in a recent interview hinted that at the end there may only be five kingdoms of Westeros instead of seven. My thoughts are that Houses Lannister and Tyrell are the two in most danger of extinction. Thoughts anyone?

 

[Mister_Oy]

Not many Baratheons left.

 

[Culhwch]

Dorne and the North become their own independent kingdoms?

 

[svalbard]

Dorne and the North become their own independent kingdoms?

I like that idea. Are the Iron Islands part of the Seven Kingdoms?

 

[The Imp]

Dorne and the North become their own independent kingdoms?

Dorne makes sense for a lot of reasons, but I would guess the Riverlands rather than the North

 

[Koopa]

The Riverlands really... Seems strange considering the map of westeros.
I'm hoping the north becomes independent. I don't really care about the rest of the south tbh. they're all the same to me. Might be the iron islands since the show has hinted at them being somewhat independent, and the books may come to reflect the same.

Or it could just mean 2 kingdoms have become inhabitable

@Thread Creator i'm thinking you are confusing the books and the shows. There's still a whole bunch of Lannisters and Tyrell left in the books. So many in fact it's easier to link to their wiki pages than to list them.

House Lannister :House Lannister
House Tyrell: House Tyrell

Meanwhile other Houses are much closer to extinction:

-House Baratheon . Shireen is Stannis only offspring and she has greyscale. Though Robert does have a bunch of bastards running around. With Edric Storm a very easy acceptance as new Stormlord. So they may end up good easy enough through Edric. If they don't accept bastards House Baratheon is likely doomed.

-House Arryn: only has sweetrobin, a sickly child ( whom I suspect may actually be Littlefinger's byblow). Next closest thing isn't an 'Arryn' anymore but a Hardyng. In my opinion their survival depends on Sansa Stark. It's my guess she will go against Petyr and marry sweetrobin. If sweetrobin is legit she and him will ensure the house survival. If Grrm goes a different way with Sansa my guess is House Arryn is doomed since Harrold seems to good to live and his ******* childrent won't be accepted is my guess.

-House Targaryen: Dany, possible Jon (and he may have ******* status) , Aegon (if not fake, probably a Blackfyre from female descent), Possible Tyrion (if Boaz theory about him being the rapeborn child of Joanna and the mad king holds water). Difficult to say on this one. Toss up depending how bittersweet the ending of the books will be (if we ever get there)

- Greyjoy: Victarion is probably sterile, Theon is probably without his sausage (he may have fathered a ******* on the captain's daughter but i don't see the Ironborn accepting that child as a Greyjoy, he killed his other *******(s) when feeling the need to provide fake corpses for Bran and Rickon. Asha is still childless and her children would need to take up her name instead of the father, Euron has bastards but not legit children and he doesn't seem the type to take a wife. No matter his so-called intention to marry Dany. Plus same goes for his bastards as it does for Theon's. They've entered dangerous territory in my eyes.

- Martell: Has Arianne and Trystane. A bunch of sand snakes as well, and Dorne may accept them easily as legit Martells. Seem safe enough from extinction.

- Tully: There's Edmure and his unborn child. The Blackfish is probably gay and won't father any children. Seem so likely to go extinct, they probably won't.

 

[Judderman]

I'm not sure two Kingdoms becoming independent kingdoms is a good explanation for 7 kingdoms being becoming 5.

Surely it is a family swallowing up a couple of others and their lands. Though Whitewalkers taking over Northern areas could be possible!

I would go for Lannister and Tyrell lands being swallowed up by Starks. Despite there being few Starks now. Jon-Dany marriage would count as Stark family.

 

[Mister_Oy]

I would go for Lannister and Tyrell lands being swallowed up by Starks. Despite there being few Starks now. Jon-Dany marriage would count as Stark family.

...or Targaryen

 

[Werthead]

Martin in a recent interview hinted that at the end there may only be five kingdoms of Westeros instead of seven. My thoughts are that Houses Lannister and Tyrell are the two in most danger of extinction. Thoughts anyone?

I don't think he's ever said this. What you're probably referring to is him saying, "Did I need seven kingdoms? Why not five? Five is a good number." He was expressing regret that he threw so many balls in the air and that he could have done with having a few less moving pieces to deal with.

He's never said anything about how many houses, families or kingdoms will be left at the end of the books to my knowledge.

 

[devilsgrin]

Martin in a recent interview hinted that at the end there may only be five kingdoms of Westeros instead of seven. My thoughts are that Houses Lannister and Tyrell are the two in most danger of extinction. Thoughts anyone?

i cannot for the life of me imagine Houses Lannister and Tyrell being extinct by the end of the books. There are many Lannisters - while not as prolific as the Tyrells, there are still more of them than any of the other great families. And House Tyrell... there's hordes of them in The Reach. Even if Margeary and Loras bite it in the dramas at King's Landing, there's still Willas the heir safe at Highgarden, and Garlan the spare. Not to mention the legions of cousins and uncles around.
Greyjoy, Arryn, Tully, Baratheon (the stags are basically extinct already - only Stannis and Shireen left at this point right?)they're all in major danger of being eliminated.
We all know the Starks aren't going anywhere - all those kids are basically still alive. Except Robb the moron of course... Lets hope George isn't a slave to the Show now, and that Rickon actually gets to be Lord. Or have Jon or Sansa on the throne at Winterfell.

 

[Boaz]

Kiwi, funny post. Tyrion will be proven (or at least mildly hinted) to be a son of the Mad King.

Wert, thanks for the info.

Regarding the topic, let's not confuse kingdoms with houses. The Reach used to be ruled by the Gardeners before the Martells. The Riverlands have been ruled over by many families. The Baratheons are not really the same as the pre-Targaryen Baratheons, but the Stormlands are still the Stormlands.

 

[ArstenWhitebeard]

Regarding the topic, let's not confuse kingdoms with houses. The Reach used to be ruled by the Gardeners before the Martells. The Riverlands have been ruled over by many families. The Baratheons are not really the same as the pre-Targaryen Baratheons, but the Stormlands are still the Stormlands.

Was going to say the same thing Boaz. I will also add that it would not require the death of all members of a household for a kingdom to be "lost". The riverlands were once controlled by the Iron Islands and are now, in effect, controlled by the Lannisters (although the lord of Riverrun is currently a Frey, he is married to a Lannister and we all know how that goes).

I would say the north would end up with Rikkon (maybe) as the king, ruling a land that is very much inhabited by wildlings. The north has seen a huge amount of war, including fighting within their own ranks thanks to those goddamn Bolton's, so there are plenty of ripe lands to be given to wildling warchiefs for their help in fighting off the white walkers (if this be the case). I can see some kind of agreement being reached if the wall falls. Just give everything north of the neck to wildlings, let them rule it themselves, and tell them that should ever the white walkers return, they are you're problem until they are our problem.

 

[Narkalui]

With regards to the Starks, there is a suggestion on the wiki of ice and fire that there are cadet Stark branches in White Harbour and Barrowton, possibly descended from Artos the Implacable...

 

[LilyDraken]

With regards to the Starks, there is a suggestion on the wiki of ice and fire that there are cadet Stark branches in White Harbour and Barrowton, possibly descended from Artos the Implacable...

Could you link to the wiki page? I'm interested in reading the article.

 

[Narkalui]

Annoyingly I can't on this device, but it's on the page for White Harbour and the page for Barrowton.

All it says is 'According to a semi canonical source there is a Stark cadet branch living in the town.' The part about being descended from Artos the Implacable is my own supposition.

 

[Koopa]

The Greystarks who lived in the Wolf's Den are considered extinct after they joined the Boltons in rebellion against the Starks. Is it possible that some ******* offspring with their blood or families through female lines exist over there? Quite possible. But given the amount of time passed, whatever Stark blood possible remained has probably become insignificant.

 

[Narkalui]

World of Ice and Fire states, in the family tree at the back, that Artos the Implacable had twin sons, Brandon and Benjen, who BOTH had issue

 

[Narkalui]

Doesn't anyone else think that those two snippets put together are potentially awesome?

I do realise however that it is far too late in the story for GRRM to be introducing a family of fishmongers from White Harbour called Stark, descended from Artos the Implacable. FAR too late...

 

[LilyDraken]

Narkalui, I would agree with you but on one count; they introduced "Aegon" really late too, the fifth book. I think it is unlikely, but it is possible.

 

[Narkalui]

I just think it would stink of deus ex machina. If a twenty year old Stark in Manderly or Dustin livery had been introduced (or just subtley hinted at) in CoK or SoS then it would definitely be on...

I do also think that, alongside Lord Cregan Stark, Artos the Implacable was a truly great Stark from history about whom we know next to nothing.