Rogue One: A Star Wars Story

Discussion in 'Star Wars' started by Gonk the Insane, Dec 11, 2016.

  1. ctg

    ctg weaver of the unseen

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    [​IMG]

    This is interesting. I really missed this bit as I thought Jedha looked like one of those greek monasteries or something that was built against crusaders or something like that. In fact AT-ATs would have really hard time on getting in it. I wonder how the Imperial Forces conquered it in the first place.

    Rogue One Director Reveals Jedha's Kyber Crystal Easter Egg
     
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  2. ctg

    ctg weaver of the unseen

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    http://io9.gizmodo.com/rogue-ones-first-writer-got-the-job-in-a-very-simple-wa-1793964656
     
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  3. Alexa

    Alexa traveller space dreamer

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    I watched Rogue One yesterday and I'm a bit dissapointed.
     
  4. Brian G Turner

    Brian G Turner He's a very naughty boy! Staff Member

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    FINALLY watched it.

    I didn't feel invested in it for a long time, though. However, once the attack on Sharrif happened I felt like I was looking at a Return of the Jedi reboot - and a damned good one, too.

    So, mostly enjoyed it, with the caveat that there were far more minor criticisms than there should have been IMO:


    - Forrest Whittaker's character is a rebel leader, who has been fighting much of his life, and then found the Empire on his doorstep. But ... when faced with the destruction of his rebel base, he just gave up.

    - Evil castle on lava planet just looked cheesy. That was a poor and caricatured way to introduce Darth Vader.

    - Vader also sounded wrong - not just his voice, but his dialogue. And, at the end, he acts in far too much of a cartoonish way. Remember, this is the man/machine who will enter Captain Antilles' ship only after squads of Stormtroopers have gone in - yet here he's running amok like a CGI Yoda. Continuity point lost. Also, not sure why his eyes always seemed to show as red - as if we couldn't guess he was the villain.

    - CGI Tarkin - just looked odd. Wouldn't it have been better to try and reuse original shots rather than CGI? Doesn't anyone remember how well that old film called Forrest Gump pulled this off in that way?

    - Too many attempts to shoe-horn in references to Star Wars. For example, bumping into Walrus on Jedda, the singer from Jabba's palace, and male lead having a copy of Han Solo's gun (and was Jyn's a copy of Leia's?).

    - Why was there no big fanfare and text opening like in every single other Star Wars film? I really missed that. Giacchino made a good effort at trying to imitate John Williams, but as with the missing introductory overture, it seemed he tried to achieve this more by cutting things out than preserving the cues, which he used minimally.

    - Krennic was just a petulant bad guy. More restrained and intelligent would surely have been more impressive?

    - Cassian Andor refused to kill Ryyn's father, but it was never really clear why he didn't do it. There didn't seem to be any big emotional change that caused him to refuse to follow orders. Additionally, if he couldn't do that, why not simply shoot the Director of the Death Star in the hope of causing some delay rather than not doing anything?

    - And, after ordering Andor to assassinate Jyn's father, why did they the Rebellion just send out a squad of X-Wings to do it anyway?

    - Blind guy downs a TIE fighting with a lucky shot. Just, no.

    - There's a sense of restraint and understatement in the original Star Wars we didn't really get here. Rather than sweeping landscapes and considered letterbox direction - Luke standing under the 2 suns on Tatooine - there seemed too much focus on just showing as much frenetic activity on the screen as possible. More standing back to appreciate the world would have been nice.

    - ALSO. Lucas was very good at putting in little details, but these sequel-sequels barely attempt that. I saw one moment in Rogue One - on a street in Jedha, someone was cooking something with tentacles and those moved. Aside from that, they're missing - replacement by in-film references, when we should be getting world-building details.

    - Jyn's story didn't feel very well developed or considered. Her dad abandoned her to work for the Empire to build a super-weapon and never contacted her again - for which she bore him absolutely no resentment at all. She also variable called him Father or Poppa. Be consistent, writers. Also, there was a single flashback scene, which basically rehashed what we'd already seen. It seemed like the writers forgot to add more flashbacks, else than the intro wasn't supposed to be shown and the flashback was supposed to do that, but they left both in - resulting in repetition.

    - Jyn killed one of Forrest Whittaker's crew, for which they imprisoned her. But then it kind of got forgotten about. The character behind the accusation was distinctive and I felt a little cheated that he just kind of disappeared about coming down hard on both Jyn and the pilot.

    - We kind of have the irony that it was a diverse cast, yet there's a long-standing criticism that diverse characters are always killed off.

    - In the full trailer Jyn - at the end, while on the tower - is confronted with a TIE fighter. That wasn't in the film.

    - Another continuity concern is that in Star Wars, when Yavin was about to be attacked by the Death Star, why didn't the fleet jump in and help? I know they're bashed up, but still, the leadership was about to get decapitated.

    - Another weakness no one seems to have mentioned: by giving the planet an all-encompassing shield, with a single weak point, it was basically a Death Star by proxy, wasn't it? :)


    Minor niggles, but too many of them to be ignored, especially with Vader and Tarkin, who were both presented wrong for different reasons. And there remained a sense that the film was rushed and didn't have enough thought put into difference sections. The third act was impressive, though. AT-ATs and a grand space battle. And nice to see those references to Red Leader and Gold Leader - and was that Biggs, too?

    I know people earlier on this thread said they preferred Rogue One to Force Awakens, but I enjoyed Force Awakens more for the emotional undertone in that film that was otherwise missing in Rogue One.

    IMO both still decent films that I expect to watch over and over again, regardless of flaws.

    2c.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2017
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  5. BAYLOR

    BAYLOR There Are Always new Things to Learn.

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    The Force Awakens and Rogue One are huge improvements over the the wretched prequel films.
     
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  6. HareBrain

    HareBrain Bunny of Wonder Staff Member

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    Re CGI Tarkin and Leia, they both look fine on an airline seat screen, just about.

    Has anyone attempted to justify (apart from continuity necessity) why Leia was part of the rebel assault force? I know the writers had a tough job there, but their solution just seemed nonsensical to me.
     
  7. Phyrebrat

    Phyrebrat ba-Ba-ba-brat

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    Hi,

    I hope you don't mind me taking the liberty of numbering some of your points for ease of reply ;)

    I'd be interested to hear your opinions after you've watched it one or two more times. The first time I saw it I wasn't entirely sure how I felt about it. The prequels, whilst having their dark moments, are a lot more saccharine and I think this one threw me for a loop a bit, and I was so shocked at the Rebels being terrorists that I had to let it settle and percolate. Certainly I think I enjoyed it far more on the second viewing.

    Also, I'd ask if you watched The Clone Wars series, and esp Rebels.

    One thing people have said is how easy it is to relate and/or like the characters, but I felt it quite difficult becuase there was so many and their names were not particularly obvious. They also have so much backstory that is obviosuly not in the film, that it was at times difficult to place their motivations.

    1) Saw Gerrera is a completely odd inclusion and I have to assume there are yards of his scenes on the cutting room floor. In the CW series, he is very different as a young man. Whilst it's clear he is black, with canerows, his speech is South Central LA/Compton/Watts and not this Olivier luvvy that FW puts on. His eyes are also green and both the same colour, but I accept that he's been rebuilt and so on, so I can allow this. Whenever he takes a breath from his Vaderizer he becomes paranoid and/or intimidating, but when he doesn't use it, he seems like he's onside with the Rebs.

    2) Vader's Castle on Mustafar is deeply rooted in canon and I think apears several times in Rebels (I'm not entirely sure, though, so best to check with
    @ctg

    3) Vader slaying was finally bringing the Dark Lord of the Sith back to the series in my mind. He didn't appear with super-secret trooper flunkies, he just went one-on-one with the Rebels. This was a great move for me, because it returned him from the whining Anakin of AOTC and ROTS to supreme badass.

    4) Jyns is an A180 pistol which can be reconfigured from pistol to rifle, Cassians is a Blastech A280. Han has a DC something, but I think that is made by Blastech, so maybe that's the reason.

    5) I don't think the opening follows the Skywalker saga trend of the crawl, and besides, the ANH crawl opening passage is esentially the entire R1 film :D. I think the decision was made to distance the anthology films from the PT, OT and NE. I assume (riskily) the anthos will be labeled 'Title: A Star Wars Story' from now on.

    6) Krennic was pitched as a furious git because of his investment in the DS project. We now know the project was secret, that he had invested so much personal energy in it, locating Galen Erso to get him back on the project. Here he is in fear that his pet will be taken away - as it is - by Tarkin or someone else. I think with great manipulators and tacticians such as Grand Moff Tarkin and Grand Admiral Thrawn who is now canon, we needed a bit of shouty-angry. He reminded me of a nastier version of Captain Kreis from Farscape - which is funny seing as Scorpius - his superior in Farscape - (Wayne Pygram) plays Grand Moff Tarkin in ROTS.

    7) Andor witnesses the technicians being slaughtered and Galen Erso being slugged by Krennic. He realises that it's likely Jynn is telling the truth about Saw's Hologram. Later on in the stolen transport, he snaps at Jynn when she accuses him of going to murder her dad, telling her she doesn't know anything about what he has done, and what orders he has disobeyed. This ties in nicely with his siding with her, re the mission to Scarif when the Rebellion council won't approve.

    8) Whaaaaaat! Chirrut is a Guardian of the Whills :p. In R1 we learn everyone has force sensitivity and can harness its power with deep focus, but that Jedi have a natural ease for it. And, not only does he down the TIE, he also catches the optimum moment to make it crash into the turbolaser battery #LifeGoals ;) Seriously though, his adeptness and skills in the Force are set up from scratch with his mantra. I do wonder if the bow was inspired by Darryl from The Walking Dead, though, and not Chewbacca.

    9) I found it hard to feel anything profound for Jyn either, but I don't know if that is Felicity's fault or the script. But, she blames Saw, not her father, for her abandonment and there is contention between the two of them. In the prologue she sees what happens to her family, and is told to run "as they had planned."(I'm paraphrasing) So it is obvious Saw was going to rescue her. I call my dad all sorts (when his back is turned ;) )

    10) Yeah, I was, and still am, totally unclear on this. It seems odd when ahving to brutally edit down films for mainstream consumption that they would waste so much time on those repeated flashbacks.

    11) They're all imprisoned because Saw is a paranoid loon by this point. When he finally accepts that Jynn really is who she says she is, there's not much he can say or do, really, bearing in mind the importance of the holo.

    12) Yeah, Baylor, change the record willya, or at least try and add to the discussion.

    Regardless of all those reasons, I do think it's a big ask for a movie to put demands on an audience when it comes to understanding backstory. Realistically, how many people in the cinema would have seen all of Rebels etc? I consider myself pretty well educated as far as the SW universe is concerned, but I really found myself struggling to keep up with characters and details the first time. I mean, after my first time watching The Phantom Menace in the cinema, I knew who and what Sebulba was, whereas I had seen R1 three times before I caught Chirrut and Baze's names! I'd argue they're a little more important to the plot than an "Expecially dangerous dug." :D


    pH
     
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  8. Brian G Turner

    Brian G Turner He's a very naughty boy! Staff Member

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    Not a problem - and I suspect my feelings for this film will change over multiple viewings. I'm especially keen to rewatch the space battle again, as to date Return of the Jedi had been the best ever done in film.

    I've never watched the cartoon spin-offs, so I'm missing those connections. I wonder is some of my bigger criticisms are when R1 tried to connect more with these than the original films.
     
  9. Gonk the Insane

    Gonk the Insane Fully Certified

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    Hmm, I don't know. But I did see James Corden in one of the X-wings. He went, I believe, the way of Porkins.:)

    I know, right? That, for me, was easily the worst part of the film - he just didn't look, well, real. I think we had a lively discussion about it in another thread so I won't bang on about it but the film could have been done quite easily without Tarkin at all. Take when we first see him, for example: we see his reflection in glass as Krennick approaches and the camera zooms out to show Tarkin himself; instead of zooming out, show the reflection instead and no problem!
     
  10. Brian G Turner

    Brian G Turner He's a very naughty boy! Staff Member

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    Thought this Honest Trailer was spot on with some of the points:



    Also, this article makes some interesting suggestions on what was changed during reshooting:
    How Rogue One: A Star Wars Story Changed During Reshoots

    not least that the original Act 3 had Jyn and co getting the data from one building, then having to run past AT-ATs to get to the transmission building. Cutting all that down to one building meant filling it in with a space battle that may not have been in the original script.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2017
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  11. Brian G Turner

    Brian G Turner He's a very naughty boy! Staff Member

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    I thought this video on all the little details and Easter Eggs in Rogue One was pretty fantastic - especially references to the very first draft of Star Wars used:

     
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  12. BAYLOR

    BAYLOR There Are Always new Things to Learn.

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    I think they did a spectacular job with the CGI. I liked CGI Tarkin . (y)
     
  13. Brian G Turner

    Brian G Turner He's a very naughty boy! Staff Member

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    And keeping to the New Rockstars channel, there are a couple of great short videos on there about Rogue One - for example, how it ties up with the original Star Wars film for story continuity:



    The issue of the Death Star plans is obvious, but it was also interesting to see why Ben Kenobi really was Leia's only hope...
     
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  14. Boneman

    Boneman Well-Known Member

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    Watched it again last night - still upset that [spoiler alert} Jyn died... her character is ten times more interesting than Rey, though that's probably script-writing. Realism comes to mind - Jyn has issues and Rey doesn't. I think Felicity's acting is better, but that's a small carp.
     
  15. ctg

    ctg weaver of the unseen

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    He winged it as they went through the filming process. A lot of it has to be on editing floor and as it always, when you give a spotlight to someone they tend to take most of the space. This movie could have done so much better if it'd been prepared in the Rebels. At least now we get to find about it afterwards and possibly see Jyn in the animated form.
     
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  16. Boneman

    Boneman Well-Known Member

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    I just heard that in a famous collaboration, The Enterprise will pass by and beam Jyn and Cassian up and they will have adventures in a galaxy, near, nearby. That's what comes from allowing Simon Pegg to write the scripts...
     
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  17. thaddeus6th

    thaddeus6th Well-Known Member

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    Damnit, Boneman, I was just about to make a "JJ Abrams has no idea how big space is" joke.

    Now I'm left with nothing to post but that it's only Enterprise. No The.
     
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  18. Lumens

    Lumens Well-Known Member

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    It does not stand up to rewatching. Many of the points that @Brian G Turner brought up hit me full force the second time around.

    This one could so easily have been fixed. He has a prosthetic leg, so he would not be able to run. He could simply have said "Run! I'll slow you down", or similar.

    I could go on but I guess it's easy to be clever in hindsight. I have little to no idea how to make those flim thingys and I did enjoy the cinematography. It's obvious a lot of effort went into that.
     
  19. thaddeus6th

    thaddeus6th Well-Known Member

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    Or, even better, drop the pointless Not-Jedi (or even just the second one) and have him actually play a role in the latter half of the film.
     
  20. Rodders

    Rodders |-O-| (-O-) |-O-|

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    I just bought the blu ray. My girlfriend hasn't seen it yet, so I'm pretty interested to find out her opinion.
     
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