Snowpiercer TV Series Ordered By TNT

Rodders

|-O-| (-O-) |-O-|
Supporter
Joined
Nov 6, 2008
Messages
4,488
Okay. Not really sure what they can do with this. Still, it could be interesting.
 

HareBrain

Smeerp of Wonder
Staff member
Supporter
Joined
Oct 13, 2008
Messages
11,032
Location
West Sussex, UK
I read the graphic novel a while back. It was pretty nonsensical, and reviews I read suggest the film was the same. When a story has such a flimsy sense of reality and its only real point is as metaphor, you wonder how they can stretch it out into a series.
 

BAYLOR

There Are Always new Things to Learn.
Joined
Jun 29, 2014
Messages
15,649
I read the graphic novel a while back. It was pretty nonsensical, and reviews I read suggest the film was the same. When a story has such a flimsy sense of reality and its only real point is as metaphor, you wonder how they can stretch it out into a series.
Ive tried watching the movie on several occasions and it just doesn't hold my interest at all.
 

ctg

weaver of the unseen
Joined
Aug 21, 2007
Messages
7,612
The first episode is out on TNT. In the UK and elsewhere, the series will be available on week instalments at Netflix, starting from next Monday with dual episodes.
 

ctg

weaver of the unseen
Joined
Aug 21, 2007
Messages
7,612


First of all, the plot doesn't follow the original French comics (Le Transperceneige) completely. TNT has altered it, but at the same time, it doesn't follow the movie either. But the premise is the same, weather changed, poles melted and caused a massive flooding, but even then the temperatures kept rising. The situation was looking dire, so the humanity did the only thing they could and they applied science on a last Hail Mary effort. So, they produced a chemical agent and loaded it into the rockets, before they were launched into the sky but as it always with the unproven technology, the cooling effect was too much and Earth plunged into another ice-age. But instead of just occupying one pole, the whole world froze over, completely.

The humanity needed saving so Mister Wilford devised a plot and invented a machine that was going to circumvent around the world in a train that consist 1001 one cars. One of them being the engine. Instead of doing a lottery or some other clever thing, the rich bought their way into this doomsday device to save their skin. Before it left, the "poor people" broke into the yard and gained access to the Snowpiercer. Thus they became passengers, the last humans on Earth.

Thing is they don't show other trains at the beginning, but if you're going to do one, you might do other ones, including prototypes. So it might be plausible to think that there are other trains, following the same tracks going through the icy landscape. I did find it alarming that the temperatures were consistently under -120 Celsius, as if Earth were in a constant shadow instead of moving through the goldilock zone.

Thing is, if you look Moon, the temperatures vary between +85 and -125 Celcius. During the daytime it is baking hot, while in the Lunar night you're going to freeze your bollocks. Completely. Unless you have proper suit that keep you alive. So, while everything if frozen it is plausible to think that some has survived in the underground shelters, and they venture outside in special suits. It's just you are not going to see them from a moving train. Another thing that they showed was the green cars, with sunlight filtering through the roof to do photosynthesis on the plants, even though some of them are lighted up artificially.

It is intriguing to see that the light in the green cars was purple, just like you get today from Led grow lamps. Therefore you might think that those in the underground shelter are surviving in a similar way. Another similarity might be the order as we humans then to do the pyramid naturally. On top of the Snowpiercer is the mysterious Mister Wilford, while at the bottom at the people at the tail. Funny how true all of this sounds during this Covid-19 pandemic. We too have experienced the wealthy going hiding in the underground shelters, or in remote locations. Some even have bought themselves whole castles to self-isolate, while the islands are on a top demand.

When you think about it, nothing is going to work without people. The machines last only so long before they need maintenance. In a train like Snowpiercer, there are a lot of moving parts. Eventually things will wear out. It's just how the way things are unfortunately. Except in this case, the train is set to circumvent Earth for over sixty years.

You would think that keeping it going would be the number one priority, but it isn't. It's the people and their problems that cause incident in the train, as we saw Detective Layton finding out all of suddenly. Although that was one death, they were ready to commit a small murder at the tail even though they needed them. The elite are never going to commit themselves to physical work.

It is just too much, even though that's exactly what has happened during the Covid-19. You go in hiding in one of those bunkers or lonely islands, and you're going to have to do the work. There's not going to be a situation, where you can all of suddenly have slaves doing the work, or even those robots. The automation is a luxury, but it also needs maintenance. Something that the robots cannot do, yet.

Even then and even if you're always going to need material to produce supplies, because nothing can last the test of time. Everything has an end date. Funny how in the Snowpiercer it starts with a murder. Do you think it was done by an elite?
 

REBerg

Registered Alien
Supporter
Joined
May 27, 2013
Messages
4,501
Location
Kepler-440b
Watched the opening TNT episode.
Interesting, but it didn't make sense to me. Humans froze the world, and the solution was to build a giant train?
Is movement supposed to keep it warm? What does it use for fuel? Where's it going?
I'll watch a few more episodes for answers, but I don't expect to be hooked by the conflicts between the haves and the have-nots trapped inside 1,000 railroad cars.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ctg

HareBrain

Smeerp of Wonder
Staff member
Supporter
Joined
Oct 13, 2008
Messages
11,032
Location
West Sussex, UK
Humans froze the world, and the solution was to build a giant train?
Is movement supposed to keep it warm? What does it use for fuel? Where's it going?
I'll watch a few more episodes for answers
There weren't answers in the graphic novel (nor the movie as far as I can tell) so I think you might be out of luck. If you can think of a halfway sensible explanation, maybe you could sell it to the showrunners to be used in a future series.
 

ctg

weaver of the unseen
Joined
Aug 21, 2007
Messages
7,612
Is movement supposed to keep it warm? What does it use for fuel? Where's it going?
It is not going anywhere. It is just a mobile bunker, doing everlasting circles around the world as it explores places that has started thawing or showing sings of going back to normal. The fuel is explained with a perpetual engine. It is not going to stop unless it's stopped. But equally as good explanation could be a mini-nuclear reactor. Those fuel supplies last for decades, but the vehicles has to be stopped, whenever they refuel.

The series is somewhat classical SF rather than hard SF. And there's more into the social science than anything else. But think for a moment them developing an epidemic in the train. They would be effed.
 

-K2-

mƎ kn0w dUm!
Joined
Jun 19, 2018
Messages
1,565
Location
'Merica
Or...

The train could simply be a metaphor for an oppressive totalitarian government, with tremendous wealth disparity (top to bottom, front to back), as it plows through every obstacle like an army marching on peaceful nations, and the great lengths (threats and temptations to not) it takes for the little guy to reach the head to derail/bring-down the government, naturally with conspirators among you to maintain the status quo, knowing that as bad as it is if you stop this malevolent locomotive of control then everyone dies. So you either submit and accept it, or everyone perishes.

Silly thought, I realize. :whistle:

Why I'm writing what I am...since comparatively, a collapse of the American government, with everyone compressing into a tiny region to survive is more plausible than some wacky choo-choo.

K2
 

-K2-

mƎ kn0w dUm!
Joined
Jun 19, 2018
Messages
1,565
Location
'Merica
Oh, p.s.: About the only thing I really cared for in the original movie was the acting of the two henchmen:



That lack of emotion--most of all lack of empathy, not even understanding the concept--flat and robotic is how a psychopath acts. They're typically not some wild, flamboyant caricature of malevolent evil. That's what's scary about them. They just do what they do not having the slightest understanding as to why it is wrong. To explain it to them, makes zero sense to them. No rage, no joy, no hopes, no regret. *shudder*

Fantastic acting to remain so detached.

K2
 
  • Like
Reactions: ctg

REBerg

Registered Alien
Supporter
Joined
May 27, 2013
Messages
4,501
Location
Kepler-440b
It is not going anywhere. It is just a mobile bunker, doing everlasting circles around the world as it explores places that has started thawing or showing sings of going back to normal.
It would make more sense to build a well-insulated underground bunker to house the survivors. From there, they could send out smaller, more efficient trains or other vehicles to scout for environmental change in multiple directions. Of course, each exploration would produce some ingredient to be mixed into the season finale.
The fuel is explained with a perpetual engine. It is not going to stop unless it's stopped. But equally as good explanation could be a mini-nuclear reactor.
I'd buy the nuclear reactor explanation, which could also keep the bunker toasty.
The train could simply be a metaphor for an oppressive totalitarian government, with tremendous wealth disparity (top to bottom, front to back), as it plows through every obstacle like an army marching on peaceful nations, and the great lengths (threats and temptations to not) it takes for the little guy to reach the head to derail/bring-down the government, naturally with conspirators among you to maintain the status quo, knowing that as bad as it is if you stop this malevolent locomotive of control then everyone dies. So you either submit and accept it, or everyone perishes.

Silly thought, I realize. :whistle:

Why I'm writing what I am...since comparatively, a collapse of the American government, with everyone compressing into a tiny region to survive is more plausible than some wacky choo-choo.
Probably the former, although I like the "wacky choo-choo" concept. That could be spun off into a children's series. :D

Another question I had as I watched the premiere: Why the hell are they tolerating the tailers? The Snowpiercer PD obviously has the muscle to rid the train of these snowaway stowaways. Why don't they go in, slaughter them and lighten the load? Are they being kept as a talent pool in case they need another detective or maybe a hairstylist? Maybe a meat supply? ;)
 

ctg

weaver of the unseen
Joined
Aug 21, 2007
Messages
7,612
Why the hell are they tolerating the tailers? The Snowpiercer PD obviously has the muscle to rid the train of these snowaway stowaways. Why don't they go in, slaughter them and lighten the load? Are they being kept as a talent pool in case they need another detective or maybe a hairstylist? Maybe a meat supply?
Because they need them. The garden lady came from the tail, so did the detective. The elite couldn't handle the business. They are only good at being posh and oppressive. Look at the teenager wanting to go to third class as an example. She was bored out her mind, while the parents were trying to take their lives as a holiday. Thirty years of that and I'm sure they're willing to do something else. For now they are being posh.

I suspect the elite is directly related to the murder. We just don't know the motive.
 

ctg

weaver of the unseen
Joined
Aug 21, 2007
Messages
7,612
Depending on which car a character inhabits aboard the titular train of TNT’s Snowpiercer, there are going to be very different definitions of what constitutes “survival.” For Andre Layton, the show’s male lead played by Daveed Diggs, only the bare minimum needs have been met until the day outlined in the series premiere when he was called forward to investigate a murder. We spoke to Diggs about life in the poorest section of the train and what we can expect out of Layton in the episodes to come.
 

ctg

weaver of the unseen
Joined
Aug 21, 2007
Messages
7,612


I missed last week the bit from the end where Mr Wilford turned out to be Stephanie, the conductor. It was included at the end of the first episode and it completely twists the movie. Still we didn't get to see the engine, but maybe we'll get lucky soon to find out what drives the train.

If you look at the instruments you'll notice that the train is receiving data from a satellite, which is interesting because in the course of time, they'll run out of fuel or their instruments develop malfunctions. It's just if they're weather satellites, it's intriguing to know that some one is making sure they still work. Would they work whole sixty years? I doubt it.



I loved and hated the famous freezing hand scene. It is such a cruel punishment and I hated that they tried to do it to a little girl first. Her mum had no choice but to give up her arm for the life of her child. All while that bitch Ruth just kept smiling in her pompous outfit. Who the hell needs a furcoat indoors? The animals are mostly gone and yet, she's wearing it like her pride.

Well, I don't think there's any redemption for her. Ruth is on the kill list for being complete ruthless [several expletives deleted]. Yet, somehow the elite has to have someone like her keeping the order. Almost as if there is no choice, even though Mr Wilford is a turncoat. If she really is as smart as the show makes her, why can't she invent a better, more equal system?

They showed that she had a baby, which she most likely lost before the train trip. Yet, she's not struck down by grief. It's almost like she has severed that empathy link and all her life is now running the train. Even though she could have suspended herself to live in tomorrow world, it's not her aim. It's almost as if she's an overseer of the experiment. Some gamers could associate her role to the Vault Overseers from the Fallout series.

What surprised me was that her engineers has to keep repeatedly "hacking old Russian weather satellites." Which is strange, because once you've a route, you use it and it's not very likely that Russian would launch an operation on the train to stop them from hacking.

The conversation in the dining car revealed that in this world you also have to kill, and it was the big freeze, which showed the people that there is need for the animal to come on surface. Although in this world there are no dead. So some people might have manipulated their way into the train then killing their way. Which is interesting because it makes the whole upperclass as sociopaths.

Did they kill because they needed to calm down their urge or was there another motive? Stephanie is out of the question, but her motive to investigate the murder is also questionable. Is she scared that murdering might lead to something? Is the murderer going to receive a corporal punishment or maybe cast down to the tail?



Nightcar. The first scene of crime. Although a cool concept, I personally hated the place. People dancing, while wearing a prop angel wings was so corrupting. Why would you need such a thing in a train? A good question, but when you think about it, you definitely want to have something that can provide escapism to the weary traveller.

Not that it turned out to be a brothel, but a mediation alcove. Very unlikely place for the murder to happen. A contemplation maybe, but the autopsy revealed that the strange meat isn't just a tail delicacy. The whole fricking train is into it, and some people obviously love it. But why to remove man's genitalia?

I don't get it, and I doubted that it was the butchers, who done it. It didn't make sense, unless there's a blackmarket for the rare meat, when they had a train car full of beef. Stephanie called it's destruction as an extinction event, even though they still have the gardens and freezers full of meat products. Some even for the human lovers.

So why is that things in the upper body didn't end in the airing duct? Is there something that the cannibals don't like?

Clayton cleverly figured out that it was all about the secrets. In other words I suspect Mr Wilford's order is just a card house and they are all one step from complete anarchy if the truth would be revealed. So why is it that nobody hasn't come to blackmail Stephanie?
 

REBerg

Registered Alien
Supporter
Joined
May 27, 2013
Messages
4,501
Location
Kepler-440b
It's easier to watch this if I push the whole giant train perpetually circling the globe thing to the back of my mind. I'm looking at it as a sort of supersized Murder on the Orient Express.
The victim was murdered to harvest his limbs for the train black market meat supply? Are the first class passengers that bored, or are they just tired of beef? It didn't appear that the kitchen was in short supply, especially the flash-frozen variety after the avalanche.
I expected Andre to break out laughing after telling tale of gang cannibalism and heart-eating in the tail. It didn't happen, but I still wondered if he was telling a locomotive urban legend.
 

ctg

weaver of the unseen
Joined
Aug 21, 2007
Messages
7,612
I'm looking at it as a sort of supersized Murder on the Orient Express.
Yes, with mixed in Westworld. I don't get how the standard speed can affect the train so much, but it does. So, it's easier to think it as a giant murder castle, and the poor people has been in it for seven years. Unable to escape.

The victim was murdered to harvest his limbs for the train black market meat supply? Are the first class passengers that bored, or are they just tired of beef?
I don't think think that they are bored, but the murderer is in second or third class. They might get order from the first class, proving a conspiracy behind the whole thing. I would be surprised if the doctor itself is somehow involved into the whole thing. He certainly would have the skills and a brain to frame things. The strange meat might be someone sick joke and it is played on upper classes, making the murder possible being originally from the tail.

It is all too early to tell why the flesh market exist. We don't even have idea of how many actually made to the train and how many survived the first seven years on the track.

It didn't appear that the kitchen was in short supply, especially the flash-frozen variety after the avalanche.
Why they only had one car reserved for the cattle? Why they put all the eggs in one basket?

Another interesting fact is that they are collecting excraments for fuelling methane generators. Why aren't they using human waste for that and why aren't they making fertilizer from it, when the facts are that it's full of nitrates. Cows might far more but they are not the only source for the gas. Even today you can get gas generators for your house and do the whole biogas thing in your backyard.

Also where are they getting feed for the cattle? It's not like they have a huge amount of space to make hay. In theory the train works, but in the practice there are lots of problems.
 

Rodders

|-O-| (-O-) |-O-|
Supporter
Joined
Nov 6, 2008
Messages
4,488
It’s coming to Netflix on the 25th. I’ll watch it then.
 
Top