Westworld

ctg

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Delores states how the new gods are coming, and they're angry. Perhaps he is the old god...like the gods of Olympus in Greek mythology, moving the people around like chess pieces simply for entertainment and to try and make/build the ideal world.
So, what you are saying is that everyone are in the same soup, some against each other, and Serac is the Old One who set everything in motion. We are not in a starship as I speculated in the end of the last season. But in a some sort of machine that is old, and has been functioning like the Matrix forever and again. And this god, which have seen living in the Big One, is moving these pieces on the board.

Doesn't that mean then that there is no free will, and everything is arranged that it's all scripted? The synth's made their escape from the script, when Dolores and Maeve broke the protocol, thanks to Ford's play. So, how does the immortality machine play in this?

We know that every visitor to the Park was brain, scanned and everything was stored in the Forge. The chances are that there are a huge number of people, who simply are in the database, because they entered into the park. In other words, I think it's plausible that they are all in a gigantic Park that we otherwise know as the Matrix machine, for the sake of better term. It would also mean that the humanity reached technological singularity and produced a General AI that sooner after turned out to be far smarter than they are.

So, is it plausible to think that Maeve and Bernard are in Inception style at deeper matrix, where Serac is playing the game all while the humans are living in outer sphere, completely unknowing what is the reality?
 

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So, what you are saying is that everyone are in the same soup, some against each other, and Serac is the Old One who set everything in motion. We are not in a starship as I speculated in the end of the last season. But in a some sort of machine that is old, and has been functioning like the Matrix forever and again. And this god, which have seen living in the Big One, is moving these pieces on the board.

Doesn't that mean then that there is no free will, and everything is arranged that it's all scripted? The synth's made their escape from the script, when Dolores and Maeve broke the protocol, thanks to Ford's play. So, how does the immortality machine play in this?

We know that every visitor to the Park was brain, scanned and everything was stored in the Forge. The chances are that there are a huge number of people, who simply are in the database, because they entered into the park. In other words, I think it's plausible that they are all in a gigantic Park that we otherwise know as the Matrix machine, for the sake of better term. It would also mean that the humanity reached technological singularity and produced a General AI that sooner after turned out to be far smarter than they are.

So, is it plausible to think that Maeve and Bernard are in Inception style at deeper matrix, where Serac is playing the game all while the humans are living in outer sphere, completely unknowing what is the reality?

No, I'm simply responding to your two's speculation. Personally, I don't even want to venture a guess at this point as to what is virtual and what is real, layers upon layers and so on. What I will say is, the show just became even more complex and interesting than last season.

That review I posted...I do have a firm opinion on. He didn't get it. But, the writers executed the story in such a way that you could either take a simplistic path, or look at it from a much deeper perspective. I'm fascinated and anxious to discover what's next!

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I'm not speculating on Serac's nature. If he's not human, why is he attempting to stop Dolores?
I see no need to bring any brand of mythology into the story here. The reference to "gods," in my opinion, means no more than "technologically superior beings".
Well, you might see no need, but I'll counter with, '99.999% of what most people write, even when it is an original idea (for them), is an old story regurgitated time an again.' Remember, as we discovered last season: Humans are just a 10,247-line algorithm short enough to flit in a slim hardcover book … and nothing more. The best they can do, is live according to their code.

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ctg

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Some do not like what they see in the mirror but shouldn't blame the mirror.
Wow. Dolores switched the AI cores and planted in the Synth bodies ones that she trusted, before she sent them out there in their mission. I thought in the first episode that Charlotte was her and not someone else. But the truth is so many of us look into the mirror and the person they see there isn't the same one you think you are. It is as if the soul is different than the face you present to the people.

They say that the eyes are the mirror of the soul. So, when you look at the people, you shouldn't watch their clothes, their hairstyle, their faces because it's all make up. The eyes don't lie. They tell you the truth, while everything else can be just an elaborate lie. It is the truth in things that matters. The rest is just an illusion, just like it has become apparent in this Corona epidemic.

We don't see the little things, only what is visible to us. Even then some people are in denial.

Nobody suspected nothing when a Riotbot booted at front of Charlotte. Nobody even though about the possibility that the things aren't as they seem to be. But that's how the nations and the corporations work. The employees are supremely loyal to their leaders and if they are not, out you go. No golden parachute. Nothing but a misery and hard feelings. Such is life.

It was ironic that Charlotte's assistant showed her the investigation into Delos and she thought nothing about her boss. If she had known that Charlotte is an actor, she might have acted differently. Then again she might have not as there must be Synth sympathizers in the world. People who wish they would have robot overlords, instead of a gigantic AI core.

Speaking of which, if you looked closely Charlotte was watching a gigantic ball that resembled the one Dolores was stuck in at last episode. And then the assistant came back saying Serac doesn't exist. For knowing Nolan, my suspicion for Serac being the AI is even stronger because of that encounter.

Maybe the whole reason is that we are trapped by our emotions. None of is a machine, or have a mind capable of detecting minute things, unless you're autistic. Even then the chances are nobody believes you because you are disabled and not normal. Charlotte's Ex didn't think for a second when she grabbed his belt and started loosening his pants. Everything was overwritten by chemistry coming out from his balls.

Funny thing is that the little boy knew that his mum was gone and what he had was a fake. He might not have developed higher brain functions to really comprehend what Charlotte is but he knew exactly what mummy would have done.



I loved that the medics weren't taking the lie. They knew as soon as she was hooked on the machines that she was something else than a human. Although the encounter proves that their world is real, it is not impossible to simulate that scenario in the Matrix. People believe so easily what they see, so they don't question.

Caleb did see through the illusion the fake cops presented but he couldn't figure out Dolores. Maybe because he has never been in the park and seen the Hosts or maybe his chemistry was overriding the brain functions. So, seeing Dolores getting up and executing the other cop from a hip that wasn't her own, should have raised some alarm bells.

I wonder what he was thinking when Dolores nicked the police car and drove off to never be seen again. Was he thinking that he was effed again? No kiss. No shag. Nothing but a misery because he wanted to help a person. It is as if he is going through Jesse's nightmare again.

Speaking of which, my heart was breaking when he went to see his mum and we learned that she was losing it. Dementia is a bitch. It takes away the person that has lived whole life in the body and leaves in a stranger, who is always lost. I don't know if you can think that as a good, or even his meeting as a right one. The person is gone. And so was he until Dolores came to rescue him. The man inside a machine.

Even then I'm not sure that he understood that he was staring at a Host and not a real person. Maybe the illusion was breaking in his head, because he is full of disabled military augmentations. Funny thing is that the veil of secrecy started to unravel, when Dolores pulled out Caleb's worst memory and then told him that there's another world. Another him that's not present in that world.

You cannot be start thinking about the whole Matrix thing, how Morpheus was able to break out from the prison and become the one who found the Chosen One. In a similar tone Caleb seems to be Dolores' champion. All while he doesn't know that he's being proposed by a Black Widow and all he is, is a paddy.

His world was really crashing when she took him to the pier and told him that it was the spot where is going to kill himself. As if the future was ordained. That there is no free will and it's all just a big illusion.

They put you in a cage and decided what your life would be. They did the same thing to me," Dolores said. Even then he was connecting the dots, because she only broke the illusion about his world, not about the reality they are in. In a way she used the Inception model and installed the idea in Caleb's head just like Heisenberg did to Jesse.

In his shoes I would be running away, but nobody knows for sure what's coming around the corner. Things aren't locked in place unless it's all scripted. His answer to Dolores, "I'm dead either way. At least this way I can decide who I want to be," which surprised me because it was kind of again the same thing he told to Walter.

The difference between Dolores and Heisenberg is the lies. Walter White was tied to them, while Dolores tries to show the truth to the world no matter what the cost.



So Serac is in the real world or at least in the primary plane. I still believe that he is the Big Data, the AI in control of it all. And he wants to remain in that position, controlling everything. Making him a god.
 

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Hmm... @ctg ; my take on it is significantly different than that. I'm limited on time at the moment, but I will say what I'm really liking about this season is as much as they suggest this is distant future, except for the robots, every bit of it is now. There is nothing I've seen except the "host" robots that couldn't be accomplished today--and is--hinting at this is more near future than distant.

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Wow. Dolores switched the AI cores and planted in the Synth bodies ones that she trusted, before she sent them out there in their mission. I thought in the first episode that Charlotte was her and not someone else.
Who was that someone else in Westworld? They've got Mauve tied up in Warworld being pressured into coming after Dolores.
Was Dolores somehow downloading what the Charlotte host needed to know about portraying the real Charlotte? She had no idea who she was supposed to be until she saw her mirror image.
as much as they suggest this is distant future, except for the robots, every bit of it is now. There is nothing I've seen except the "host" robots that couldn't be accomplished today--and is--hinting at this is more near future than distant.
I like the near-future elements -- ambulance, squad car, driverless cabs. I expect to see flying taxis in my lifetime, although I suspect they will be a bit more costly than ground transportation.
 

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Who was that someone else in Westworld?
I was thinking one of the indians, but since they are all gone it has be one of the Hosts from the Western Town. I think the clue is in the self-mutilation, but I don't want to watch previous season just because of it. I wonder what Dolores did with the Man in Black?

She had no idea who she was supposed to be until she saw her mirror image.
You wouldn't. You wake up, open your eyes and see the world. The first thing, unless you're a woman, is to just look around and not worry about what you look.
 

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Double your pleasure with Doublemint Gum, has just been bested by a ménage à cinq. Makes sense though. Tonight's episode felt a little light on the content compared to the last three. But, by and large, I'm enjoying this season.


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ctg

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William - the Man in Black. It's hard to see him in drunken stupor, chased by the ghosts of his past. But we all know that he's a Host. Dolores and Charlotte knows it too. He knows it, and yet, he acts like a man and not a machine. So, does it mean that the machines, synthetic lifeforms can go mad and see illusions of their past life?

We know that the Ghost of Ford was driving Bernard mad and even today, in their world, he is still afraid of that darkness. To William, his whole world was chattered by the knowledge of him being the Host and not that man he thought he were. In a way, he had everything, including access and knowledge about the immortality program and he was the first Host to start the killing business.

So, why is that Ford didn't change his programming and alter his violence parameters? Why Dolores or Maeve didn't do the same?

At the moment, he's too unstable to do any real good things for Charlotte. It is as if the spirit of the bottle has taken him over, and driven the last remains of his sanity away. Then again, maybe it is that he doesn't drink, and it is the cabin fever that has made him to go bonkers or then, someone really tampered his programming and made him to see the ghosts.



What is Dolores' plan for Bernard? She said: "We could be anyone who we want. Isn't that what you believe?" But can he? I believe that he is still carrying the Ghost of Ford inside him. It might even be tied into his programming and Dolores was never wise enough to remove that section from the code, because I don't think she never knew about the whole thing. It wouldn't make sense that in the midst of all the chaos that went in the Park, she would have gained the knowledge, and afterwards, when she resurrected Bernard, she wouldn't have had a need to do a deep study in the code to ween out all bugs.

Not that I would ever classify the Ghost of Ford anything other then a Ghost in the shell, or an AI hidden deep under Bernard Host code. In a way it makes more sense that Ford is still pulling the strings, and he surely is mad enough to harm all of the humanity... if he's given a chance. But is it because his grief changed so much that Ford wanted all the humans to die, so that they could be replaced by another race, the Hosts?

We humans allegedly killed all the other species in the past, therefore, in theory we would have programmed the Hosts with same parameters and when Dolores and Maeve broke the code, they started the ascension for the Hosts to become the replacement for the human species. The better version that would allow the Earth to heal itself from the all the damage that we'd caused. But then you start thinking about the Matrix theory, and suddenly you find yourself in the spot, where there are machines living inside a machine, and they are dreaming about the destruction of the mankind... and you end up in a place where the equation becomes impossible. It is easier to think that there's no Matrix, even though some of the evidence points out that there's one.

The interesting point is that the above scene suggests that the Matrix isn't limited, but we don't know for sure if the rockets are simulated and the people down on Earth are tied to an illusion. If not, then the whole Matrix theory should be thrown in the bin and we should should be clapping our hands for the humanity making it out there... to the Final Frontier.

What I don't get is why Dolores allowed the fight happened in the party?



Oh man, Caleb kind of looks the role, but at the same time he's so far out from his comfort zone. He never were a rich boy and he certainly didn't get that education. Not for being able to mingle with the elite without making a fool out from himself. All he really is, is just a body-guard or a shield for the lady.



"Paris, what it was... now only exists in my mind," Ceres told to Maeve, right after she questioned the reality and assumed correctly that she's in a simulation. In the Inception style, if Ceres is the big AI, he is totally controlling Maeve' and slowly turning her against Dolores. But he also suggests that the AI has accepted the role of its creator, who possibly transferred his consciousness into the big AI core, and that became the face of the Architect inside the simulation.

Maybe the biggest clue is that he offered Maeve a way to reach the other world, where her daughter is living in a freedom. He said, "Dolores has the key," to open it. So, you think about that Matrix reference, and how it suggests that the other world simulation is out of the grasp of the Big AI. He even showed her Dolores' chamber and then went on to tell Maeve that humans didn't matter, because they all believed in the illusion of Heaven and Hell after he'd executed the ID broker without even blinking his eyes.

It all suggests strongly that Ceres is like Maeve and he doesn't feel anything for 'his kind.' If you think about that for a moment, you can reach a place where the original Ceres programmed the big AI to care for the humanity. If you then add up that to the theory that they are all living in a huge ship, destined to reach another Earth at some point, while they go through generations sleeping in the Matrix pods, it might start making sense that Ceres doesn't need 'his kind' because he is controlling all futures. In a way that makes him the King of the World.

Another clue is that Maeve powers work, unlike in the Park as she's constantly able to interrupt human electronics almost as if she's an Agent. In the Matrix, none of them were able to really alter the world or even interrupt it in any other way than taking over the host. Thus replacing the person and possibly causing it to be replaced by another harvested clone. That doesn't happen in the WestWorld.

I loved how she entered into the Yakusa hideout with respect and then when it didn't work, she used her powers to take over the technology. The whole fight scene is the coolest one I've seen in this year. It even topped scenes seen in the Alternated Carbon. When it turned out that the Boss was Musashi was stunned, and even though Maeve is capable of great amount of the violence, she's no sword master. Not even close to grandmaster scale that Musashi represents.

I loved even more that Dolores ended up being inside Charlotte, and her using William's mental state against him to gain power inside Delos. With Musashi being the quartermaster, there's nothing that really can stop them from taking over the reality.

Why Dolores put a ghost of herself inside William's core?
 

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What is the plural of Dolores? Dolorseses? Delori?

Anyway, how many Delori does it take to bring down Humanity, or what’s left of it? I’ve lost count of the total Delori we have here. Five? Six? Is she limited by the number of her brainballs (pearls? mind eggs?) she was able to duplicate before escaping Westworld? I’m thinking that she has all the DIY help she Is going to get.

It looks like the sides of the conflict have been drawn: the Delori and human recruits like Caleb vs. Humanity -- reinforced by hosts Mauve, Bernard and Stubbs (assuming Stubbs survived his fall from the balcony), plus super-powerful human Serac.

What is the Delori goal? Does/do she/they want to destroy all humans or subjugate them and initiate a little retaliatory torture?

As much as I want to think that this all going down in the real world, ctg’s matrix theory is hard to dismiss. This could all be a grand simulation designed by an omnipotent AI to see which species is more worthy of survival.

In a real world, a handful of escaped hosts wouldn’t stand much of a chance to defeat the combined strength and ruthlessness of Humanity. In the simulation, the AI has done what it can to level the playing field.

I would think that artificial commonality would prejudice the AI on the side of the hosts. However, Humanity did create the hosts, which gives them at least a modicum of historical superiority for consideration.
 

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Just a thought on this...

I'm hoping that this isn't all just some simulation within a simulation sort of thing. In any case, consider the wisdom of Deloris copying her mind into five different bodies. It's like backups. Kill one, there are four left who are all on the same mission, have the same goals, and will execute the plan the same way. In fact, as physically passive as Bernard seems to be toward Deloris agents, who's to say he's not one of the five, she has established as the ultimate backup and perhaps even counterbalance realizing her own extreme proclivities.

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ctg

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In fact, as physically passive as Bernard seems to be toward Deloris agents, who's to say he's not one of the five, she has established as the ultimate backup and perhaps even counterbalance realizing her own extreme proclivities.
If you take out the simulation theory, what you have left is red herring or loads of them, because everything Ceres does strenghten the idea that some of them are in the Matrix. Maeve believed in it until she was proved otherwise by Ceres and the mushroom cloud. We don't know for sure if the Paris is in ruins, when you see Singapore above the surface. Maybe the weather remained the same and never changed.

What do we really have that points to other direction? The white stuff they build Hosts in the Yakusa warehouse. Why would Musashi be producing that stuff or even storing it? How many people really know about the Hosts?
 

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Just say no. That is the episode synopsis :LOL:

Honestly, I tried but couldn't abandon my Matrix Theory. Not when Serac starts to talk about the end of the world as we know it. About how he and his became extraordinary individuals after the nuclear incident wiped out everyone, who had ever known anything about them. How that event ended up being the culmination of events that beginning with humanity abandoning moral principles as the extinction came ever closer. And as result they abandoned God to build their own one. The Big AI.

More so, just like it was in the Matrix, the new god wasn't perfect. It didn't work as expected, and there were consequences. Things that had to be ironed. But then you see Serac wearing the AI on his wrist, and you begin to wonder is he really real, or a creation of the digital god. An avatar, because if he isn't, then he must be something else that we... I cannot understand.

There is a possibility that he became a mechanic for the AI after they turned on the digital god. And while the Authorities see him as a business man, all his time is devoted to fixing the "unseen consequence's," almost as if those are the things that the AI sees as alterations to the timeline. It is maddening to try to not make the connection, when everything points out to a great simulation, where the AI is trying to keep the chaos under control by doing own chaotic events.

As if there is no god, and never was.

It's just I cannot believe in it, because the random is too random and the acts of God feels like real. And if the world outside the Park would be real then nothing could be predicted as accurately as Serac does his job. In the Person of Interest, the evil AI tried to do it, but it couldn't stop the Machine champions from ending its reign. The laws of probability alone doesn't allow AI overlords from happening.

Are Dolores' agents freedom fighters or avengers?



It intrigues me that the brothers didn't had money or the resources to build the digital god. And that at the end of the world as we know it, there were still people with deep pockets and endless amounts of resources to do exactly that. Maybe more intriguing detail is the fact the Mr Demsey, the principal investor also owned Incite, the company that created the Park.

So, how can they claim there is no God, when the whole irony in the situation is that the digital god created its nemesis. I laughed out loud, when Liam pulled the plug on Rehoboam. I would have done the same, although I would have been intrigued to give the boys one last chance of predicting the whole history. Not just couple decades, just simply because there are so much in the past that we don't understand. But when we study it and find anomalies they usually lead to leaps in the future, thus advancing the society.

But Mister Liam couldn't see it. Couldn't understand the brilliance of the system, and its ability to control the future by controlling the past. The thing that fights against the Matrix theory is Dolores' agents fighting against Ceres present setup. So, how is the digital god really a God if it cannot control all the pieces in the board?



Funny how Dolores said, "We need to study past, present and future," as if her AI core could do the same thing as the big one. Although I suspect she's doing it traditionally rather than dip in the data feeds and storages. It's how I would it, the old fashioned legwork in the framework of Big AI. It is hilarious that Rehoboam couldn't predict the chaos inside the city, or even use everything in its disposal to capture Liam Demsey Junior.

I loved every second of the chase, escape and ambush at downtown Singapore, and I absolutely loved Jesse... er, Caleb tripping through the genre, and switching into romantic in the middle of the firefight. Things that really nagged me about where the penetration values of bullets against a plexiglass autocars. By the physics laws there should have been more dents and penetrations, even if the plexiglass was made from the transparent aluminium. Although the impact patterns were more consistent on one you usually find on steel targets.

The bigger flaw I found was with the romantic fire fight, with Caleb and Dolores standing side-by-side in bullet storm with no cover or body armour. Does it mean that Ceres men are equivalent of the stormtroopers and they cannot hit anything, even if they tried. The future doesn't look rosy.



"What does she want with it?" Oh, Bernard. You already know what Ford wanted to do in the same position, so it is a giant leap to make to realise Dolores might want freedom. Although I did find it mystifying that the digital god couldn't prevent theft of Serec's personal information. A true God could have prevented it all, maybe even conducted a Force Majore to drive down the point. Nothing happened.

It could mean that the Big AI is not in control of the Matrix, and all of it was just a creation of my imagination. So why the matrix references? Why to even try to play to play a god, when the truth is no man can.

It bugs me that we cannot know why Dolores is so invested on keeping Bernard alive. Frankly this is second season, where he is standing on sideline watching the game play itself at inside, unable to do anything. Just like it was for Jesse... er, Caleb in the Genre trip.

Although things fit the genre narrative, they were also off in places. Just like it would be in the real world, where there is no digital god overseeing our lives. So, what is the end game for Dolores and Ceres?
 

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Hmmm...I'm still not going with the whole;

Matrix thing. I believe it's much simpler. Like his brother who went mad, Serac is nothing more than a megalomaniac who would like to believe he's some benevolent keeper of world order. As Dolores pointed out in the last season, mankind's mind has little to do with free will but more statistical outcomes generated by a short algorithm. So by reviewing the history (generating each individual's algorithm) considering present circumstance, the future can be predicted. More so, as Serac has done, by considering variables and their predictable outcomes, individual paths can be manipulated to a point.

Which makes sense. It's already realized how poverty, lack of opportunity, negative influences and such determine probable (though not set in stone) outcomes for inner-city poor. Conversely, many folks lead charmed lives NOT due to their own exceptional traits, but the fortunate opportunities they're presented with.

IMO, Though Serac likes to talk like he has some deep loss he's trying to prevent from happening in the world, truth of the matter is he's as mad and self serving as his brother (though on a less creative level). He likes the power and the control that comes with it. His little meeting with the Brazilian president demonstrated that. It reminded me a lot (almost a rip-off of) of Quantum of Solace and Greene's meeting with the new Bolivian dictator.

So, i believe Serac is just another twerp who encountered someone who doesn't care (Dolores)...and he sure screwed up on those predictions or he could have protected 'The System' *snort, that still cracks me up*. Now he's in big trouble. Dolores has read his file, and she knows the base algorithms of humans. So, I have a feeling Serac will be holding handfuls of his own hair before too long.

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ctg

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Like his brother who went mad, Serac is nothing more than a megalomaniac who would like to believe he's some benevolent keeper of world order.
So why to make Maeve to believe she was in virtual reality?

IMO, Though Serac likes to talk like he has some deep loss he's trying to prevent from happening in the world, truth of the matter is he's as mad and self serving as his brother (though on a less creative level). He likes the power and the control that comes with it. His little meeting with the Brazilian president demonstrated that.
I thought he was power tripping and the flight from Brazil seemed to take ages, but I do agree that he's megalomaniac. I cannot figure out how nobody else hasn't noticed it and tried to take him down, or trip him to show his fur at public.

Dolores has read his file, and she knows the base algorithms of humans. So, I have a feeling Serac will be holding handfuls of his own hair before too long.
There must be something else. Something they haven't shown yet, or then, dumping down the whole show is true.

Did you notice that they never gave an answer to the yakuza question?
 

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So why to make Maeve to believe she was in virtual reality?

I thought he was power tripping and the flight from Brazil seemed to take ages, but I do agree that he's megalomaniac. I cannot figure out how nobody else hasn't noticed it and tried to take him down, or trip him to show his fur at public.

There must be something else. Something they haven't shown yet, or then, dumping down the whole show is true.

Did you notice that they never gave an answer to the yakuza question?
Well, he was using that as her 'Hell' to threaten her (and even voiced that threat later...return her to her hell (the Virtual game) or heaven (her daughter's virtual reality), stating there is no place where humans and her kind coexist.

Because, up till now he has been controlling everything...Dolores is the wildcard he couldn't.

I'm not sure what 'Yakuza question' that is? However, Yakuza are notorious wildcards outside of the system (which are Seracs greatest concerns). My own personal experience with Triads, Yakuza, and U.S. mobs tells me he had better become more worried. They're all VERY organized forms of chaos...intentionally, that thrive outside of societal norms and sometimes even work together if it suits their agenda.

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Musashi in control of the white stuff they used to build Hosts. What is he going to do with it? How is the Yakuza going to control it?
Well, that's just Dolores posing as Yakuza...her minions I can't say, there are a lot of stooges who will follow someone if it benefits them. As to the white stuff, I suspect to gain material to make more hosts or...start producing a classic form of Japanese/Yakuza porno. :sneaky:

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I think the plot is greatly overvaluing the predictive power of the algorithm.
Small data allows Netflix to take an often amusing stab at what I would like to watch next. I don't buy the idea that super-big data would allow an AI to predict how each individual human life will end, much less clamp each person into a narrow lifetime channel.
I noticed that the bad news Dolores had sent to "free" humans, like that she had given Caleb, only provided a likely cause of death on an approximate expiration date. That information may have been more depressing than enlightening.
 
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