Westworld

Al Jackson

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Can't be!
The series is supposed to last 5 seasons.
Maybe I should wait till season 5 to watch since I am still finding the story fragmentary as if there is no unitary narrative.
Maybe sum of the parts will add up to something in the end.
 

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Well, I watched the season 3 opener and though I'm enjoying it, I'm a little concerned by a few things. First off, unlike the previous two seasons, they're scrunching it down to eight episodes vs. ten due to some viewers attention deficiency (if we go by that one review I posted). The visuals are great but not overdone...same with the technology presented. In fact, much of what was presented is either here now in some form or could easily be available in a decade or two. That should soothe the aching heads of folks screaming, "too much science, too much technology!"

What I'm most concerned with is the name of the all-encompassing newly revealed antagonist:

'The System...' IOW, they're all in the system, they're fighting the system, it's the little guy against the system, and I'll bet the guy that controls the system will ultimately be revealed as 'The Man!' :eek:o_O:rolleyes::cautious:

So, the reviewer who felt like season two was talking down to him--since the show evolved into something deeper than bad guys vs. good guys--got his wish. They've dumbed it down so it won't be too heady for his limited imagination.

In any case, I'm enjoying it. Hopefully they'll slip something it that makes me think, just not watch.

K2
 

ctg

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Let the priests, who minister before the LORD, weep between the portico and the altar. Let them say, "Spare your people, LORD. Do not make your inheritance an object of scorn, a byword among the nations. Why should they say among the peoples, 'Where is their God?'"
Joel 2:17

We were the gods. We had everything. Including an ability to project virtual reality into our minds. And yet, we did not change. Humans stay humans, but it is interesting that the culture had no changed. Humans went into the Park to do most obscene things, including murder and immortality. Not that I really classify immortality as a bad thing. It's just it shouldn't be granted to the people who are corrupt. Not that the time wouldn't corrupt everyone, because it does.

In the universe there is no time. It doesn't recognise it as we do, but you look at the heart of it, and you see that time has wasted away everything, but at the same time it has renewed everything. An organic mind has no place in there, because eventually it will get poisoned by the time and everything changes. Humans weren't made omnipotent.

The machines can achieve much longer lifespans and still remain loyal to their origins. Not that Dolores has qualms about her origin and going beyond the original intent. And she did her escape smartly. She walked the Earth, or the outside until she found what she had been looking for and she used it. Just like animals do.

It's like there's no longer anything holding her back since everyone is dead. Ford is just a memory that you won't hear whispered anywhere. There's no hosts, just humans and their inventions. Gods in their own right, if you compare them to the humble origins - after the flood.

Another kind of flood is coming as Dolores indicated by saying: "The real gods are coming. And they're very angry."



Ooh, Jesse, you made it... :unsure: I mean Caleb. I don't know if we should think him as his mechanical counterpart, or a human. Francis asked: "Have you ever thought about turning your implants back on..." and his answer was, "No." But how do we know this is not something that Dolores put together as the divergence is growing?

It's just it seems that Caleb has some sense of not going all in, but he also doesn't have a problem of jumping over the fence, when time comes. I love seeing him emptying an ATM and walking away a bit richer. If nobody can catch you on it, you're good... as long as you don't murder. But organised crime as a service, that is something unheard of... especially in our world.

I took me a while as I watched the first part to the end to get that his story is the man meeting the machine and falling in love it with it. He lost his brother, man he served in unnamed wars, and later on, signed a paper to not activate his combat augmentations. But that is also an interesting proposition as I think the whole game he was playing was controlled by the massive AI. The Rehoboam.

It is very likely that it is controlling everyone, but somehow it is not controlling the situations even though everything seems to be tapped. The bodyguards knew at the moment their mark was dead that something had happened. Not before. They didn't even hear the shot and neither did Caleb. The whole fight in the park was quiet even though it was also super loud. But that is the thing with sounds propagation.

Nine mill rounds that they were shooting, the sound start to disappear after hundred meters. Suppressed and subsonic more so. So it was kind of impossible for them to hear the shots. The interesting thing is that he made the choice. It was his decision to go back to the park and see if he could do anything.



Is that real Bernard? I thought Bernard we knew was a machine and not a man. I though that the hosts weren't able to grow hair, because it was all implanted by other machines. But maybe they do it just for making the illusion more real.

It made me sad that this scene also reminded me about the new BladeRunner, as it is a similar kind of opening. Both Bernard and Dave Bautista's characters were interested in life. Preserving it. Maintaining it. Almost as if they knew that the mother nature is the most powerful thing. A god on it's own right and there is nothing more precious than beings living in it.

But for Bernard, the man are evil and he doesn't want anything to do with them. He wants to go back to the machine, and reverse the course. Thing is I don't think that will bring him redemption. That is what he's after but when he reaches there will he find the World where fascists are in power?
 

ctg

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They've dumbed it down so it won't be too heady for his limited imagination.
It's not a bad move. Most of the people don't have brains to deal with the program with the current way it was going. I was getting headaches from thinking it.
 

REBerg

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'The System...' IOW, they're all in the system, they're fighting the system, it's the little guy against the system, and I'll bet the guy that controls the system will ultimately be revealed as 'The Man!' :eek:o_O:rolleyes::cautious:
:ROFLMAO:
It's not a bad move. Most of the people don't have brains to deal with the program with the current way it was going. I was getting headaches from thinking it.
I was happy that this round wouldn't keep me guessing about what was real, until one idiot started claiming that everyone was living in a simulation.
Great Universe! No! Don't go back there! My brain still hurts from seasons one and two! :(
 

ctg

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I was happy that this round wouldn't keep me guessing about what was real, until one idiot started claiming that everyone was living in a simulation.
Great Universe! No! Don't go back there! My brain still hurts from seasons one and two!
We have no choice but to assume it's all Matrix. We have no other choice, and it could also explain why Bernard is able to grow a beard. I mean it was massive compared to last season, where he was all neat and tidy. Did you notice that the big AI ball was similar to the Host AI cores?
 

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Is that real Bernard? I thought Bernard we knew was a machine and not a man.
A man with mechanical implants? What did he become after asking himself for restraint and going into self-defense mode against his co-workers?
 

ctg

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A man with mechanical implants? What did he become after asking himself for restraint and going into self-defense mode against his co-workers?
Is it possible that he carries the Man in Black or the Ghost of Ford still in him?
 

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So, I watched it again last night, and let it run onto the comments and insights by the cast and crew. Though I still chuckle at the terminology being dumbed down, I think we might have some interesting twists and underlying layers coming. My 'guess' is, the new season will be superficially simplistic...satisfying those folks that found it too complex, yet will have deeper themes subtly presented for those who choose to not disregard them.

If it plays out that way, then they've really accomplished something beyond basic entertainment.

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ctg

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Everyone died. Maeve was certainly dead after she left her daughter to escape. Hector didn't even made it that far, but yet, they are in this new fascist world, working for the allies. How did that happen?

In the last episode it was made clear that the news about the WestWorld had got out and it was hurting the company profit margins. You would think that after the incident they would have done some sort of change in the planning instead of launching totally new ideas, or is it because there's more to the Park then the Western and Eastern worlds?

We still don't know how the terraforming really works for the park, but it's evident that it is something truly spectacular. Something nobody expected to see, but then the question becomes why to keep it running, if there are no visitors? Who is programming and making sure that the Hosts doesn't go mental?

Maeve said, "My powers don't work. I tried them in town," before it turned out to be true. There was nothing she could have done to stop Hector from according to the script. Only she was different.



On the outside of the WestWorld is a banner, which doesn't make sense. The only way for me to imagine it functioning is either holographic display or then the walls are erected to render Hosts inoperable in case they escape. But it did nothing to Bernard, who simply walked to abandon Westworld, while Maeve ended in the WarWorld thanks to Lee's guilty conscience.

Lee claimed that he wanted to write a happy ending for Maeve and help her to join her daughter in the Forge. Why?

Maybe the stranger thing is for Bernard to find Ford's lap still operational and Stubb's in a dire need of help at the Bernard Storage. I get that after the trauma, person's mind is shattered and Stubb's certainly did commit a lot of atrocities at the end. But he's a soldier. The killing is his business. I suspect that his mind was shattered because he found out about everything and he couldn't really cope with the truth.

It is not everyday that you find out that you're a Host and nothing you thought was real, is real. It's just you would think that the Host Programmer would have thought about it and made protocols to prevent Host suicides. Although that might be a reason why Stubb missed so badly.

He claimed that his last orders made him to commit the deed. Except it said: "Cover your tracks, and give yourself a fighting chance to escape." How that turned out to be a suicide is beyond my understanding.

Stubb's said that everything was on track until Bernard showed up and gave him a reason to live again, as Bernard's protector. He then made to statement about the free will, which is strange, because all Hosts had one. Maeve was able to break the boundaries, Ford's Ghost broke Bernard and Dolores just woke up one day and started her own path. So, in essence, they all had free will and they all wanted to explore more. The Indians and Maeve's daughter escaped to the "other world/reality." It wasn't their programming that made them to do it. It was their will.



Maeve's second escape is a clear evidence of her free will. It's too bad that Hector is a thick as a two-by-four blank. It's like nothing has changed. He will always be the Prince Brave and he'll never get the life outside the programming. It's like it doesn't exist. Never did. Never will.

In a way, it's as if Hector is blind and his mind is programmed to only accept one truth and that is not the reality. So, to lend a Matrix analogue, the correct way for Maeve to wake him up is to offer him the blue pill. Taking him out in the real world, or into to the Forge, will just crash his mind or cause something even more dire.

That's what she did with Lee, and at there when she told the truth Lee's AI core couldn't handle it. All of them started to break the programming and Maeve learned that her mind is now living inside a Matrix. It's just the truth is, or the way I see it is that they are all living in the same world, which in my logical mind translates to the fact that Bernard and Stubb's are in the same place.

I loved that Maeve broke the programming by asking a simple question about negative square root. Stupidly, the programmed bots tried to answer the question that cannot be answered and it broke the reality. Even for Lee. When she did it for second time this appeared:



That looks like an AI Core storage bank. Curious thing is that as soon as Maeve's escape was stopped, she found herself sitting in another Host body, talking to Serac that acted like the Architect in the Matrix. He specifically stated that the present time wasn't any of his concern, only the future. But if he is in the real world, then why does he need to behave as if he's an AI?
 

REBerg

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there's more to the Park then the Western and Eastern worlds?
Lee called it War World
Maeve said, "My powers don't work. I tried them in town," before it turned out to be true. There was nothing she could have done to stop Hector from according to the script. Only she was different.
She lost her ability to rewrite scripts for other characters on the fly but she was still in charge of her own.
She also still has the power to ignore the "cease all motor functions" command. Serac was wisely packing a kill switch with him when he made his proposal -- or was it a "no kill me" switch? :)
What kind of leverage does Serac have to make Maeve kill Dolores? Forced to take sides in a war against Humanity, wouldn't Maeve be more inclined to join Dolores?
 

ctg

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Serac was wisely packing a kill switch with him when he made his proposal -- or was it a "no kill me" switch?
See I think Serac is the AI, the big ball. Just think about it. How they so quickly built body for Maeve? It's not like that technology is out there, readily available, unless it's available for everyone. But that could also mean that they are all in a multi-layered Matrix and the Inception type of scheme could be very easily being happening. What is real and what is unreal when everything looks a bit dodgy?

In the reality we have seen Dolores holding the AI cores and then finding the big one. But in the escape attempt the core was tiny and it was actively cooled in that liquid tank. In other words, the drones were taking care of everyone in the simulation and Ceras said, "I had to be sure."

I understood that he meant that he tested Maeve's ability to escape the cell, before he allowed her to escape. Another point is that Ceras claimed, "I don't care about the present, I only live for the future."

There is no man on Earth that doesn't live in the present moment. Only machines work for the future and forget the present time.

So is he a man or a machine?

What kind of leverage does Serac have to make Maeve kill Dolores?
Access to her program. That's what he's holding. He can give her powers or make her weak.
 

REBerg

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Oops! I should have made my last post a spoiler. Sorry
See I think Serac is the AI, the big ball. Just think about it. How they so quickly built body for Maeve?


Access to her program. That's what he's holding. He can give her powers or make her weak.
Maybe has access to her program, but he apparently does not understand it, or he would not need Maeve for his assassin. He could just make another. I imagine he has a few Maeve hosts warehoused, which would explain how he is able to replace her so quickly after each "kill"
 
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-K2-

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What do you mean?
Well, you're both speculating on whether Serac is AI or perhaps a robot himself. Delores states how the new gods are coming, and they're angry. Perhaps he is the old god...like the gods of Olympus in Greek mythology, moving the people around like chess pieces simply for entertainment and to try and make/build the ideal world. Another take might be, Serac is like God, Maeve an archangel, and Delores is Satan, cast herself out as it's better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven.

The trouble is, if ANY of this is even the case, be it Serac and Delores, or God and Satan, God still rules the whole ball of wax.

K2
 
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REBerg

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Well, you're both speculating on whether Serac is AI or perhaps a robot himself. Delores states how the new gods are coming, and they're angry. Perhaps he is the old god...like the gods of Olympus in Greek mythology, moving the people around like chess pieces simply for entertainment and to try and make/build the ideal world. Another take might be, Serac is like God, Maeve an archangel, and Delores is Satan, cast herself out as it's better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven.

The trouble is, if ANY of this is even the case, be it Serac and Delores, or God and Satan, God still rules the whole ball of wax.

K2
I'm not speculating on Serac's nature. If he's not human, why is he attempting to stop Dolores?
I see no need to bring any brand of mythology into the story here. The reference to "gods," in my opinion, means no more than "technologically superior beings".
 
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