Timeless - NBC's "Hard SF" & "Historical" TT Series

[ctg]

Like Twelve Monkeys I can't see how they can stop the changes becoming more and more damaging to the "original" timeline (whatever that was.)

Maybe that is the thing. We almost always see TT stories getting solved and then having an utopistic Disney ending. What if the Timeless is really a story of how we tried and failed to understand that the events happens, because they're meant to happen and there is nothing we can do to make them different. Without addressing the state of the future, Timeless is a series showing historical events in the way of fiction. But, if they show the future, it'll either answers a lot of questions and possibly cause even more, but it also raises the stakes.

I think Continuum is the best TT series as it showed the future first, before the MC was sent in the past to save it. I also believe that in the TT stories it's important to give the audience answers on the future then just staying in the present and the past. If the present is the future then in the Timeless case nothing big has really happened.

 

[ctg]

I leave this here

Is our universe unique? From science fiction to science fact, there is a concept that suggests that there could be other universes besides our own, where all the choices you made in this life played out in alternate realities. The concept is known as a "parallel universe," and is a facet of the astronomical theory of the multiverse.

The idea is pervasive in comic books, video games, television and movies. Franchises ranging from "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" to "Star Trek" to "Doctor Who" to "Digemon" use the idea to extend plotlines. (A fuller list of parallel universes in fiction is at the bottom of the article.)

There actually is quite a bit of evidence out there for a multiverse. First, it is useful to understand how our universe is believed to have come to be.

Parallel Universes: Theories & Evidence

 

[REBerg]

2.09/2.10 The General/Chinatown
Mind-bending season finale.

I leave this here

Parallel Universes: Theories & Evidence

Spoiler

Nothing other than a parallel universe can explain the appearance of a second lifeboat containing castaway-looking versions of Wyatt and Lucy. Was it piloted by another version of the late Rufus?
The message I'm getting from the series is that Time can be dented a bit by the team missions, but it can't really be bent in a significant new direction. If that's the case, why is Rittenhouse convinced that it can "save the world" by changing historic pivot points? Emma's surprising execution of top Rittenhouse management would indicate that nothing done in the past can really change an already written future.
I loved how firing up the old boat up kicked off 130 years of shrubbery, throwing mulch in all directions.

NBC hasn't announced if the series will get a third season, but the cliffhanger ending here will anger a lot of fans if they decide to cancel it.

 

[ctg]

Truly Wonderful Season Ending. They did put a lot of thought and effort to mirror the last season and push the envelope with this one. Some bits were problematic and even disturbing, because the historical-event-of-the-week just didn't do enough for the old TT geek. But, chained together causalities like what we saw in the final one are far better way for making the audience to understand the bridges and connections in this mess of loose strings.

Spoiler

Nothing other than a parallel universe can explain the appearance of a second lifeboat containing castaway-looking versions of Wyatt and Lucy. Was it piloted by another version of the late Rufus?

I read some old theory some time ago and it claimed that some of the dreams are projections from the alternate universe. If they'll feel too real, they might be you seeing through the eyes of the other you and if they come back as deja-vu's, your soul is more connected to the stream-of-time than you might have ever guessed. I personally don't think that the other life-boat is from a parallel universe, but they're actually going to show us the future, because if you rewatch the final scene, there was line thrown by Mason, "It looks upgraded."

Although "upgraded" can be from a parallel universe, where the engineers were a bitter better than in the prime timeline it's a reach to unknown, because according to the theory every decision you made otherwise, you'll create a new parallel timeline to the original one. Eventually this will mean that there are an infinite number of parallel universes instead of one, where we made opposite decisions and created a so-called mirror world.

Thing is that they've proven time and again in this season to make it absolutely clear that you cannot escape history. The events happens if they're meant to happen regardless Lucy's or Rittenhouse's teams trying to interfere with them. Some things might change but the end is the same. Rufus died and when he bled on the small screen I shed my tears like any other person. I even shouted to the screen for Lucy to "Double Tap" when she her gun on Emma's forehead and I was really glad, when she pulled the trigger. Emma needs to die or she'll create an Empire for herself with everything she has inherited from the "family."

Wyatt also needs to learn to live with the regret or he will never be able to function like the bearded veteran we saw standing on the other lifeboat hatch.

I hope NBC sees the wisdom to grant another ten episodes for the Timeless team. They delivered on the promise.

 

[ctg]

After NBC canceled the time-travel drama only to reverse the decision last May, the network is once again trying to make a decision regarding the show's future.

On a conference call with reporters on Sunday, NBC Entertainment's CEO Bob Greenblatt said the network will wait until after Timeless' season two finale airs before renewing or canceling it.

Will Timeless Be Renewed for Season 3?

"We try to give the producers the courtesy of letting their shows run and seeing what they do before we make a decision that's premature," Greenblatt explained. "We're going to make decisions on those after that."

He continued, "We're hopeful and realistic. We have a lot of shows and we've looked at the whole season, but we're going to take a look at those shows after they finish their runs and hopefully make a relatively quick decision on them."

 

[REBerg]

"We try to give the producers the courtesy of letting their shows run and seeing what they do before we make a decision that's premature," Greenblatt explained. "We're going to make decisions on those after that."

He continued, "We're hopeful and realistic. We have a lot of shows and we've looked at the whole season, but we're going to take a look at those shows after they finish their runs and hopefully make a relatively quick decision on them."

This does not sound promising.
For example, NBC announced May 12 that Black List will be renewed, although the fifth season is still in progress I hope that I'm wrong, but it would seem that, despite Greenblatt's assurances, good news gets delivered early while bad news waits in the wings.

 

[Dave]

La La La, not listening to you. I need to watch the final two episodes first.

 

[Dave]

Spoilers for end of Season 2
But if you are reading this far then that must be expected, right?
Okay, great ending. Rather confusing, in a good way - what I mean is that as @ctg said, they aren't afraid to "push the envelope." Who would expect the arch-villains to be killed? Or, for Rufus to really, really die? But if the new upgraded Lifeboat* can travel back to times when they already exist to rescue Rufus, then the Mothership could also travel back and rescue Lucy's mother, father, grandfather, hell anyone they like? This is a game-changer because one of the fundamental restrictions placed upon the time-travel rules in this series has just been removed.

A few more ideas:
- Jia will be different now. 3 years living in 1885-1888 must change someone. I hope we see her on more missions.
- Why did they keep Stanley under wraps all this time? He seemed quite lucid to me. (Except the part about "forbidden colours" - which reminded me once again of the Twelve Monkeys TV series and the "red forest."
- After 2 Seasons, I still don't understand the goal of Rittenhouse. What is the change they hope to enact? Why is the world they want to create better? Would the Confederate states winning or J F Kennedy not becoming President make the world better? If the series is saying anything, it is saying that some things are fated to happen in any case and cannot be altered.

*why did they come back from Chinatown in the Lifeboat when they could have found and stolen back the Mothership?

 

[Lucien21]

Unfortunately it seems Timeless is no more...again.

http://ew.com/

But there may be a movie to wrap things up...maybe

 

[Lucien21]

Not a movie as such, but a 2 hour finale.

Twice-Canceled Series 'Timeless' Gets a 2-Hour Series Finale on NBC

 

[Anthoney]

It shows some respect to a loyal fan base. The show may not have had as many fans as the network wanted but what it did have was strong.

I think any series canceled (unplanned for) after 2 or more seasons should get a closing movie or even movies. If only I was king of the world.

 

[Dave]

I think any series canceled (unplanned for) after 2 or more seasons should get a closing movie or even movies. If only I was king of the world.

I've lost count of the number of series where that didn't happen and there was no closure.

 

[Dave]

So, I'm watching the very first episode of a Spanish time travel series on Netflix, which is now into its 3rd Season. It is called The Ministry of Time. The plot bears some uncanny similarities with Timeless. It is almost as if Timeless was... cough ...copied from it. it isn't exactly the same but there are two men and a woman in the team working for this secret Spanish Ministry. They travel back in time to fix changes made by others, and one of the others is a renegade of the Ministry, presumed to have been dead. One of the men is a widow and wants to warn his wife about her getting hit by a car, to prevent her death. There are more similarities too, but there is even more that is quite different - no time machines, just doorways off a an infinite staircase and unauthorised hidden doors. The three are also from different time periods themselves which has lots more possible character interactions than Timeless allowed. I recommend it.

 

[Anthoney]

It is called The Ministry of Time. The plot bears some uncanny similarities with Timeless.

The people who owned The Ministry of Time sued NBC. That lawsuit sort of died on the vine. Timeless is a rewrite of a Pilot that played on SyFy called Rewind. It's about a team of 3 people, a soldier dude, a lady and a black guy, are sent back in time to stop terrible things from happening. This show predate the Spanish show.

 

[Dave]

The people who owned The Ministry of Time sued NBC. That lawsuit sort of died on the vine. Timeless is a rewrite of a Pilot that played on SyFy called Rewind. It's about a team of 3 people, a soldier dude, a lady and a black guy, are sent back in time to stop terrible things from happening. This show predate the Spanish show.

I've been continuing to watch The Ministry of Time and I rate it very highly. What you say about the lawsuit is undoubtedly true, but there continues to be many parallels between the two shows - so someone is cribbing from someone. I expect that like the old DS9 versus Babylon 5 debate, who is cribbing from who, will never be proved. A little bit both ways, no doubt.

While I think that The Ministry of Time is excellent, they are obsessed with stories about Spanish artists, much as Timeless was obsessed with stories about slavery. One problem with Ministries is that the final episode of the second series had such a huge plot, with major changes that occurred to history, that it can never really be topped. The third season has been slowly building a new enemy though - a secret society with the ability to time travel. So, don't know where they got that idea from!

 

[REBerg]

2.11 The Miracle of Christmas Part I/II
Sometimes, promises of closure do come true.
This 2-hour final finale (or is it? -- Timeless Season 3 is still a possibility after set pull-down postponed) wrapped up loose ends nicely.

Spoiler

Apparently for each significant character saved, another must be sacrificed. Rufus lives, Jessica dies, and Rittenhouse will no longer be tinkering with time.
I didn't catch the logic behind destroying the mothership but keeping the lifeboat for possible future time traveling emergencies. Why not keep the more advanced, not to mention better looking, of the two models?

 

[ctg]

Spoiler

Why not keep the more advanced, not to mention better looking, of the two models?

They did. The one that was upgraded to have an autopilot. What will they do with it, we don't know. It's under lock and key forever and ever again.

 

[REBerg]

Spoiler

They did. The one that was upgraded to have an autopilot. What will they do with it, we don't know. It's under lock and key forever and ever again.

Spoiler

Until that juvenile genius in the last scene perfects her invention ...

 

[ctg]

Spoiler

Until that juvenile genius in the last scene perfects her invention ...

Yeah, but that's the thing. If it has already been invented, and even created, it's not lost, and it's not the original idea. You only have to wait and someone else will come up with the same idea. If they are clever enough, they will solve the math and actually create the thing. Hence, it's a problem because if TT is something that you don't want to happen, banning it will make the want to do it regardless. And if that kid figures out that mummy is a Traveller, she might want to experience the same thing. Therefore, if we ever do TT, we have to make it public and not lock it in the classified projects. Otherwise we are doomed to repeat the mistakes. How many cockups you can do before you've doomed everyone to live inside a loop?

 

[REBerg]

Spoiler

How many cockups you can do before you've doomed everyone to live inside a loop?

What? You mean we're not already in one?