Timeless - NBC's "Hard SF" & "Historical" TT Series

Dave

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I'm also amused by their new "Screw it! We'll just change what we want ." attitude.
I appreciate that Lucy apologised for not allowing the women to be hanged, but I saw it more as resignation that they can no longer prevent all the changes. They could never have fixed it so Abigail and Lucy survived but the others didn't. In that way, it is rather like the old Star Trek (TOS) episodes where they say they hold to the Prime Directive, but some earlier ship has already been to the planet and completely messed up it's society, so whatever they do has got to be better and it gives them a carte blanche.
 
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ctg

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The best episode of the season!

Not only they showed Jack being naughty from the beginning, they transported him into the future, because of the safety issues. What could go wrong? Everything. They even told JFK about the assassination and still it happened. It is almost as if you cannot change anything even though you dump the necessary information into the subject and somehow you don't cause a greater contamination.

The only problem with the issue is the information travel from the past to the future and into the Rittenhouse hands. I don't understand how it all really happened, because the info was given before the sleepers were eliminated in the past. Did their deaths inform Rittenhouse of the failure of the mission? But more concerning for me is the information overload that JFK got from the future and looking at the Wiki pages. How did he manage to keep it all secret and not benefit from what he learned? Seeing the proof make one even more determined it's the thing than believing it's false.

Also the notion of God and it being the vessel for giving the oracle visions rubs against the logic and scientific beliefs. Then again we are living in the age, where science has proven that souls exists. Why to ignore that fact and completely dump the mysticism?

Oh, there are so many questions I'd like to have answers and I cannot wait for the next one. I hope there's lots before the summer season starts and Timeless goes to a four month season break.
 

Dave

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The best episode of the season!
I understand your reasons for saying that as you have described above. For me, I thought they missed a big chance to make a lot more fun with more of the pop culture references. However, this show already has a lot of comedy, without it being an actual comedy, and they probably didn't want to upset that delicate balance.
 

ctg

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However, this show already has a lot of comedy, without it being an actual comedy, and they probably didn't want to upset that delicate balance.
I think they are still being careful on their experiments on this season. They got a big scare, when it was cancelled so I would understand if they're hesitant on doing things out from the norm. The last episode had so many references on them being happy that they didn't actually had to go to past, as that angle worked without putting on the costume. Why is it that they don't explore more on the closer timeline? I think closer would mean that they could experiment on things to get a head of Rittenhouse.
 

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It would seem that the time travel theory being expressed in this series is that the future can be changed in small ways, but the broad strokes of history are unalterable.
Team expeditions could not stop major events like the destruction of the Hindenburg or the assassinations of Lincoln and JFK. Yet, their activities in the past can do things like negate the existence of Lucy's sister or bring Wyatt's wife back from the dead.
I suspect that it won't be long before another expedition into the past does something to erase Jessica's return. If Wyatt is not part of the crew when that happens, he will never know about that second chance.
 

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The broad strokes Rittenhouse are drawing has started altering things in the idealogical level. Just like it was similar kind of episode in the Legends of Tomorrow things aren't any longer encapsulated into singular moments. In this episode they really got close to wiping themselves from the history, because one man refused to play the ball and record an album for Lando Calrissian.

It was a clever move, because when you move out from the singular events and start affecting ideas, you're on much more stable ground on doing changes then you can with a single thing. This is much larger then the Grand Father Paradox. Maybe I'm wrong, am I?
 

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I thought that Wyatt not being aboard the Lifeboat for this mission might result in the rest of them returning to find no sign that his wife had come back, I guess not, because when Lucy told him to go be with Jessica, he didn't seem puzzled.
Lucy going to Flynn's room with a bottle at the end of the episode was an eyebrow-raiser.
 

ctg

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Lucy going to Flynn's room with a bottle at the end of the episode was an eyebrow-raiser.
They all need someone. Flynn is there to give her that someone who really cares. He read the diary and went hellbent to prevent its vision from becoming real. It's kind obvious that ultimately he's in love. Maybe Lucy is just exploring what it feels like if she trusted Flynn completely. Maybe it's a win-win situation?
 

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Still, a decision she might regret when she takes her hung over "walk of shame" come morning. :D;)
 

ctg

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Very good episode.

It is difficult to think what would be different if women would have no rights, because the success squeezing would have made the world bleaker than ever. I don't really want to even think about it but if it had been successful the time machines might not have happened and the Rittenhouse might not have had their female bosses.

In fact, I don't understand how the Rittenhouse boss is going to keep alive after this mission when his loyalists know that eventually the despot on the throne is going to be their doom. For them to be successful on staying the job the changes has to happen. So, here's the question, if the changes had made and the timeless team would have found themselves suddenly being a male dominated group how big loss there would have been for the viewership?

If they're going to continue with bold changes somethings has to be allowed to happen as all those things make the world behind more interesting. I have to include into that REBerg's walk of shame as that angle has made this show so much more interesting.
 

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2.07 Mrs. Sherlock Holmes
This gave me a real feeling for the power and historical significance of the suffrage movement. How far we've fallen -- with our pathetic current voter turnout in most elections.
Emma surprised me when she teamed up with the good guys (at least temporarily) as a victim of child abuse who didn't want to experience a world in which women were considered property. I liked situation summary after Flynn decided to trust her when Rufus said: "Great. Now both of my enemies have guns."
Flynn seems to be working out. I wonder if Emma might evolve into a future good guys team double agent in the Rittenhouse camp.
I have to include into that REBerg's walk of shame as that angle has made this show so much more interesting.
It turned out more to be of a "tiptoe of shame." :p It seems that the Jessica-Flynn-Wyatt triangle might be resolved by the image of Jessica found on the salvaged Rittenhouse equipment. Among the many reasons it existed might be that Jessica is working for or will work for the bad guys. That would might somehow reunite Wyatt and Lucy.
 

ctg

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This gave me a real feeling for the power and historical significance of the suffrage movement. How far we've fallen -- with our pathetic current voter turnout in most elections.
Yeah, back in the days they were much more active and they knew what they wanted from their elected official. Since that event things have really changed.
That would might somehow reunite Wyatt and Lucy.
Or not. Lucy isn't a good girl and she's not stupid. As soon as Wyatt's wife is exposed, he's going to climb back into the bottle and self-destruct. Flynn is much more stable.
 

Dave

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First, I need to know more about the images. Where were they taken? When were they taken? How was it taken? It might be in the past, but then again, it might be only one "possible" future. However, I did wonder why she was still kept around unrestricted. She is a security risk, no matter whether she is a Rittenhouse sleeper or just an innocent bystander. They can't let her go now though, and whatever they do with her is going to arouse some suspicion about the reason for the change of attitude - so "keep this between us" is not going to work really.
 

ctg

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She is a security risk, no matter whether she is a Rittenhouse sleeper or just an innocent bystander. They can't let her go now though, and whatever they do with her is going to arouse some suspicion about the reason for the change of attitude - so "keep this between us" is not going to work really.
Has it ever worked? Thing is, they're hiding and there's no security details keeping things as they should. The hideout might be a secret, but in the same way the lifeboat tracks the main vessel, the Rittenhouse could do in reverse. So, I don't really understand how they could have gone through this as a long con? What could they have possible offered her to become a sleeper agent?
 

ctg

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If you'll expect another review today I'm afraid I'm all out juice. I had the worst migraine in my life yesterday and I keep falling in sleep while writing these things for you. I'll do it later if nobody else wants to do it on my behalf.
 

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2.08 The Day Reagan Was Shot
The team again makes a minor change in individual history.
Reagan still gets popped, but Jessica's dead baby brother is resurrected as Wyatt's longtime pool-playing pal.
It's strange that the greatest revelations about the future were made to then Officer Christopher, yet Jessica's future was the one changed. Meanwhile, Lucy can't catch a break on getting her time travel-erased sister back.
Jessica's timeline vulnerability to the missions of the team make me think that her involvement with Rittenhouse could be in flux. Has anyone checked to see if her image is still among the recovered Rittenhouse data?
Now, you see her; now, you don't. :D
 

Dave

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There is so much suspicion being fed, so much uncertainty about the timeline. I like it, but it's getting complicated. As ctg said earlier, not as complicated as the Twelve Monkeys TV series became, but complicated enough. Like Twelve Monkeys I can't see how they can stop the changes becoming more and more damaging to the "original" timeline (whatever that was.)
Wyatt doesn't know about the recovered Rittenhouse data so he has developed his own suspicions about Jessica's return all by himself. He didn't get the answer he was looking for, but the question remains. However, I'm sceptical that if Jessica is as good a Rittenhouse agent as we are lead to believe that she would casually mention her brother to Wyatt.
 

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