Timeless - NBC's "Hard SF" & "Historical" TT Series

ctg

weaver of the unseen
Joined
Aug 21, 2007
Messages
6,076
The best episode of the season!

Not only they showed Jack being naughty from the beginning, they transported him into the future, because of the safety issues. What could go wrong? Everything. They even told JFK about the assassination and still it happened. It is almost as if you cannot change anything even though you dump the necessary information into the subject and somehow you don't cause a greater contamination.

The only problem with the issue is the information travel from the past to the future and into the Rittenhouse hands. I don't understand how it all really happened, because the info was given before the sleepers were eliminated in the past. Did their deaths inform Rittenhouse of the failure of the mission? But more concerning for me is the information overload that JFK got from the future and looking at the Wiki pages. How did he manage to keep it all secret and not benefit from what he learned? Seeing the proof make one even more determined it's the thing than believing it's false.

Also the notion of God and it being the vessel for giving the oracle visions rubs against the logic and scientific beliefs. Then again we are living in the age, where science has proven that souls exists. Why to ignore that fact and completely dump the mysticism?

Oh, there are so many questions I'd like to have answers and I cannot wait for the next one. I hope there's lots before the summer season starts and Timeless goes to a four month season break.
 

Dave

Custom title not found
Staff member
Supporter
Joined
Jan 5, 2001
Messages
17,836
Location
Way on Down South, London Town
The best episode of the season!
I understand your reasons for saying that as you have described above. For me, I thought they missed a big chance to make a lot more fun with more of the pop culture references. However, this show already has a lot of comedy, without it being an actual comedy, and they probably didn't want to upset that delicate balance.
 

ctg

weaver of the unseen
Joined
Aug 21, 2007
Messages
6,076
However, this show already has a lot of comedy, without it being an actual comedy, and they probably didn't want to upset that delicate balance.
I think they are still being careful on their experiments on this season. They got a big scare, when it was cancelled so I would understand if they're hesitant on doing things out from the norm. The last episode had so many references on them being happy that they didn't actually had to go to past, as that angle worked without putting on the costume. Why is it that they don't explore more on the closer timeline? I think closer would mean that they could experiment on things to get a head of Rittenhouse.
 

REBerg

Registered Alien
Supporter
Joined
May 27, 2013
Messages
3,776
Location
Kepler-440b
It would seem that the time travel theory being expressed in this series is that the future can be changed in small ways, but the broad strokes of history are unalterable.
Team expeditions could not stop major events like the destruction of the Hindenburg or the assassinations of Lincoln and JFK. Yet, their activities in the past can do things like negate the existence of Lucy's sister or bring Wyatt's wife back from the dead.
I suspect that it won't be long before another expedition into the past does something to erase Jessica's return. If Wyatt is not part of the crew when that happens, he will never know about that second chance.
 

ctg

weaver of the unseen
Joined
Aug 21, 2007
Messages
6,076


The broad strokes Rittenhouse are drawing has started altering things in the idealogical level. Just like it was similar kind of episode in the Legends of Tomorrow things aren't any longer encapsulated into singular moments. In this episode they really got close to wiping themselves from the history, because one man refused to play the ball and record an album for Lando Calrissian.

It was a clever move, because when you move out from the singular events and start affecting ideas, you're on much more stable ground on doing changes then you can with a single thing. This is much larger then the Grand Father Paradox. Maybe I'm wrong, am I?
 

REBerg

Registered Alien
Supporter
Joined
May 27, 2013
Messages
3,776
Location
Kepler-440b
I thought that Wyatt not being aboard the Lifeboat for this mission might result in the rest of them returning to find no sign that his wife had come back, I guess not, because when Lucy told him to go be with Jessica, he didn't seem puzzled.
Lucy going to Flynn's room with a bottle at the end of the episode was an eyebrow-raiser.
 

ctg

weaver of the unseen
Joined
Aug 21, 2007
Messages
6,076
Lucy going to Flynn's room with a bottle at the end of the episode was an eyebrow-raiser.
They all need someone. Flynn is there to give her that someone who really cares. He read the diary and went hellbent to prevent its vision from becoming real. It's kind obvious that ultimately he's in love. Maybe Lucy is just exploring what it feels like if she trusted Flynn completely. Maybe it's a win-win situation?
 

ctg

weaver of the unseen
Joined
Aug 21, 2007
Messages
6,076
Very good episode.

It is difficult to think what would be different if women would have no rights, because the success squeezing would have made the world bleaker than ever. I don't really want to even think about it but if it had been successful the time machines might not have happened and the Rittenhouse might not have had their female bosses.

In fact, I don't understand how the Rittenhouse boss is going to keep alive after this mission when his loyalists know that eventually the despot on the throne is going to be their doom. For them to be successful on staying the job the changes has to happen. So, here's the question, if the changes had made and the timeless team would have found themselves suddenly being a male dominated group how big loss there would have been for the viewership?

If they're going to continue with bold changes somethings has to be allowed to happen as all those things make the world behind more interesting. I have to include into that REBerg's walk of shame as that angle has made this show so much more interesting.
 

REBerg

Registered Alien
Supporter
Joined
May 27, 2013
Messages
3,776
Location
Kepler-440b
2.07 Mrs. Sherlock Holmes
This gave me a real feeling for the power and historical significance of the suffrage movement. How far we've fallen -- with our pathetic current voter turnout in most elections.
Emma surprised me when she teamed up with the good guys (at least temporarily) as a victim of child abuse who didn't want to experience a world in which women were considered property. I liked situation summary after Flynn decided to trust her when Rufus said: "Great. Now both of my enemies have guns."
Flynn seems to be working out. I wonder if Emma might evolve into a future good guys team double agent in the Rittenhouse camp.
I have to include into that REBerg's walk of shame as that angle has made this show so much more interesting.
It turned out more to be of a "tiptoe of shame." :p It seems that the Jessica-Flynn-Wyatt triangle might be resolved by the image of Jessica found on the salvaged Rittenhouse equipment. Among the many reasons it existed might be that Jessica is working for or will work for the bad guys. That would might somehow reunite Wyatt and Lucy.
 

ctg

weaver of the unseen
Joined
Aug 21, 2007
Messages
6,076
This gave me a real feeling for the power and historical significance of the suffrage movement. How far we've fallen -- with our pathetic current voter turnout in most elections.
Yeah, back in the days they were much more active and they knew what they wanted from their elected official. Since that event things have really changed.
That would might somehow reunite Wyatt and Lucy.
Or not. Lucy isn't a good girl and she's not stupid. As soon as Wyatt's wife is exposed, he's going to climb back into the bottle and self-destruct. Flynn is much more stable.
 

Dave

Custom title not found
Staff member
Supporter
Joined
Jan 5, 2001
Messages
17,836
Location
Way on Down South, London Town
First, I need to know more about the images. Where were they taken? When were they taken? How was it taken? It might be in the past, but then again, it might be only one "possible" future. However, I did wonder why she was still kept around unrestricted. She is a security risk, no matter whether she is a Rittenhouse sleeper or just an innocent bystander. They can't let her go now though, and whatever they do with her is going to arouse some suspicion about the reason for the change of attitude - so "keep this between us" is not going to work really.
 

ctg

weaver of the unseen
Joined
Aug 21, 2007
Messages
6,076
She is a security risk, no matter whether she is a Rittenhouse sleeper or just an innocent bystander. They can't let her go now though, and whatever they do with her is going to arouse some suspicion about the reason for the change of attitude - so "keep this between us" is not going to work really.
Has it ever worked? Thing is, they're hiding and there's no security details keeping things as they should. The hideout might be a secret, but in the same way the lifeboat tracks the main vessel, the Rittenhouse could do in reverse. So, I don't really understand how they could have gone through this as a long con? What could they have possible offered her to become a sleeper agent?
 

ctg

weaver of the unseen
Joined
Aug 21, 2007
Messages
6,076
If you'll expect another review today I'm afraid I'm all out juice. I had the worst migraine in my life yesterday and I keep falling in sleep while writing these things for you. I'll do it later if nobody else wants to do it on my behalf.
 

REBerg

Registered Alien
Supporter
Joined
May 27, 2013
Messages
3,776
Location
Kepler-440b
2.08 The Day Reagan Was Shot
The team again makes a minor change in individual history.
Reagan still gets popped, but Jessica's dead baby brother is resurrected as Wyatt's longtime pool-playing pal.
It's strange that the greatest revelations about the future were made to then Officer Christopher, yet Jessica's future was the one changed. Meanwhile, Lucy can't catch a break on getting her time travel-erased sister back.
Jessica's timeline vulnerability to the missions of the team make me think that her involvement with Rittenhouse could be in flux. Has anyone checked to see if her image is still among the recovered Rittenhouse data?
Now, you see her; now, you don't. :D
 

Dave

Custom title not found
Staff member
Supporter
Joined
Jan 5, 2001
Messages
17,836
Location
Way on Down South, London Town
There is so much suspicion being fed, so much uncertainty about the timeline. I like it, but it's getting complicated. As ctg said earlier, not as complicated as the Twelve Monkeys TV series became, but complicated enough. Like Twelve Monkeys I can't see how they can stop the changes becoming more and more damaging to the "original" timeline (whatever that was.)
Wyatt doesn't know about the recovered Rittenhouse data so he has developed his own suspicions about Jessica's return all by himself. He didn't get the answer he was looking for, but the question remains. However, I'm sceptical that if Jessica is as good a Rittenhouse agent as we are lead to believe that she would casually mention her brother to Wyatt.
 

ctg

weaver of the unseen
Joined
Aug 21, 2007
Messages
6,076
Like Twelve Monkeys I can't see how they can stop the changes becoming more and more damaging to the "original" timeline (whatever that was.)
Maybe that is the thing. We almost always see TT stories getting solved and then having an utopistic Disney ending. What if the Timeless is really a story of how we tried and failed to understand that the events happens, because they're meant to happen and there is nothing we can do to make them different. Without addressing the state of the future, Timeless is a series showing historical events in the way of fiction. But, if they show the future, it'll either answers a lot of questions and possibly cause even more, but it also raises the stakes.

I think Continuum is the best TT series as it showed the future first, before the MC was sent in the past to save it. I also believe that in the TT stories it's important to give the audience answers on the future then just staying in the present and the past. If the present is the future then in the Timeless case nothing big has really happened.
 

ctg

weaver of the unseen
Joined
Aug 21, 2007
Messages
6,076
I leave this here

Is our universe unique? From science fiction to science fact, there is a concept that suggests that there could be other universes besides our own, where all the choices you made in this life played out in alternate realities. The concept is known as a "parallel universe," and is a facet of the astronomical theory of the multiverse.

The idea is pervasive in comic books, video games, television and movies. Franchises ranging from "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" to "Star Trek" to "Doctor Who" to "Digemon" use the idea to extend plotlines. (A fuller list of parallel universes in fiction is at the bottom of the article.)

There actually is quite a bit of evidence out there for a multiverse. First, it is useful to understand how our universe is believed to have come to be.
Parallel Universes: Theories & Evidence
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
REBerg General TV Discussion 1
reiver33 Press Releases 2
Phyrebrat NBC's Constantine 34
M Buffy 10
M Voyager (VOY) 6

Similar threads

Top