The Tower of Joy

[The Imp]

It occurred to me today that we are never given a good explanation as to how Ned knew that he should go to the Tower of j.Joy. if there is an explanation in the books I'm not remembering it. If I'm correct and there is not an explanation, it's open to speculation. One theory that I would have is the possibility that "future Bran" influenced young Ned.

Does anyone have any better recollections than I do, for more thoughts on this matter?

 

[Needle]

I am in the midst of another reread (up to SoS) so things are pretty fresh and no I don't think we are ever given an explanation of how/why Ned ended up at the TOJ. Was Rheagar there just prior to the Trident? If so that could explain how they knew where to look, but it's pretty flimsy. Surely Rheagar would have gone to great lengths to hide her.

I agree that future Bran may well have influenced Ned. While I'm sure Bran will have a part to play in the present, it feels like his biggest role was actually played out in the "past". I have to say this "time travel" stuff of Bran's may give us all a migraine trying to figure it out though!

P.S. We know Ned several times felt the trees were trying to speak to him. I suspect many others will hear them as well. The questions may be: Will Bran become strong enough to be understood, not just felt? And does it matter how long it takes him to do that? Will he actually be able to change the past? And if so how much? Time travel migraine on the way!

 

[The Imp]

I am in the midst of another reread (up to SoS) so things are pretty fresh and no I don't think we are ever given an explanation of how/why Ned ended up at the TOJ. Was Rheagar there just prior to the Trident? If so that could explain how they knew where to look, but it's pretty flimsy. Surely Rheagar would have gone to great lengths to hide her.

I agree that future Bran may well have influenced Ned. While I'm sure Bran will have a part to play in the present, it feels like his biggest role was actually played out in the "past". I have to say this "time travel" stuff of Bran's may give us all a migraine trying to figure it out though!

P.S. We know Ned several times felt the trees were trying to speak to him. I suspect many others will hear them as well. The questions may be: Will Bran become strong enough to be understood, not just felt? And does it matter how long it takes him to do that? Will he actually be able to change the past? And if so how much? Time travel migraine on the way!

I've always disliked the idea of time travel paradoxes or in this case, paradoxes get my results from the present Bran influencing events in the past. Until proven otherwise by George RR Martin, I'm going to stick to the assumption that the present that all of the characters have lived and are living are a result of things that Bran has already done, and if he does influence someone in the past, in this case his father, that influence has already resulted in the storyline that we have seen unfolded and continues to unfold.

You're right, this kind of stuff gives me a migraine also.

 

[Brian G Turner]

how Ned knew that he should go to the Tower of Joy

I presumed Ned unearthed the details after his victory - either from defeated knights or even commoners, involved in supplying the tower. It doesn't really require anything magical to discover where Rhaegar is.

TV series spoilers:

Spoiler

IMO Bran is observing history, not directing it, and that his importance lays not in making Ned go there, but simply learning about Jon's parentage - a secret Ned would willingly take with him to the grave - so that Bran can inform Jon of it in the present, thus justifying Jon's power in the north and clearing the political union with Daenerys.

 

[Narkalui]

I think Brian's right here, although it wasn't common knowledge I think there must have been enough people in Kingslanding that knew something that Ned could put the pieces together without needing Sherlock levels of deduction.

That said though, on the subject of Bran time travelling: what if Bran somehow enables it that Jon is the Hero that saves the world from the Long Night now AND ten thousand years ago AT THE SAME TIME.....

 

[Judderman]

Why on earth is a simple tower called the Tower of Joy anyway? A honeymoon house??

 

[The Imp]

I think Brian's right here, although it wasn't common knowledge I think there must have been enough people in Kingslanding that knew something that Ned could put the pieces together without needing Sherlock levels of deduction.

That said though, on the subject of Bran time travelling: what if Bran somehow enables it that Jon is the Hero that saves the world from the Long Night now AND ten thousand years ago AT THE SAME TIME.....

How would the 10,000 years ago part work?

 

[Narkalui]

Like, timey wimey stuff, as the Doctor would put it...

 

[The Imp]

Like, timey wimey stuff, as the Doctor would put it...

Can you say that in a way that makes sense to someone who is not watch Doctor Who? Are you proposing that Jon will time travel?

 

[Judderman]

Perhaps Bran could do something that changes someone's acts in the past which not only stops their victory in the past but also causes some change that defeats them in the present too. Maybe creating a store of dragonglass or somesuch.
I can't see one of the present characters actually influencing the time before they were born though, other than maybe Bran.

 

[Narkalui]

Can you say that in a way that makes sense to someone who is not watch Doctor Who? Are you proposing that Jon will time travel?

I was thinking some kind of magical overlap of time, like a fold, by which it becomes then and now...
Sounds stupid now that I think about it...