Technical Question about Tommy Guns

JunkMonkey

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#1
I'm currently drawing a comic involving gangsters firing Tommy guns (the ones with the big round magazines) and I'm happily drawing shell cases flying out of the things because it looks right - is this actually correct?
 

ctg

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#2
I'm currently drawing a comic involving gangsters firing Tommy guns (the ones with the big round magazines) and I'm happily drawing shell cases flying out of the things because it looks right - is this actually correct?
Yes.

 

JunkMonkey

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#4
Thanks for that. Somewhere I have comic book - I think it was drawn by Jack Kirby - where a character is firing a revolver and there are shell cases in the air. I know NOTHING about guns - but I know that ain't right.
 

Cathbad

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#6
Thanks for that. Somewhere I have comic book - I think it was drawn by Jack Kirby - where a character is firing a revolver and there are shell cases in the air. I know NOTHING about guns - but I know that ain't right.
Revolvers don't normally eject cartridges.
 

JunkMonkey

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#7
Revolvers don't normally eject cartridges.
I know. Even I know that. Which is what made the panel so dumb. (I hope the shells were added by some DC hack post hoc. Kirby was a veteran and would have known.)

In my comic the Tommy guns are going 'Bladda! Bladda! Bladda!' for some reason - whereas the squid firing the .45 automatics is making a more conventional 'Blam! Blam!' noise.
 

The Ace

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#8
All machineguns (and many rifles) work by ejecting the spent cartridge to make way for a fresh one - it explains how in many films, troops armed with rifles are seen shooting, and then working a handle on the receiver - pulling back ejects the spent cartridge, pushing forward inserts a fresh one - machineguns (and automatic pistols) simply use gas from the recoil to automate this process.

It's difficult to distinguish single shots from a sub-machinegun by ear, because they happen so fast. Oh, and a sub-machinegun is a small machinegun, its size is reduced due to the use of pistol ammunition, while a machine-pistol is a machinegun scaled down to take pistol ammunition - they're different names for the same thing. True machineguns fire rifle bullets, which makes them big and heavy, but effective.

Technically, most (not all) could fire single shots in semi-automatic mode (Blam ! Blam ! One shot each time you pull the trigger), but fully automatic fire was more common (Bladdda! Bladda! The weapon continues to fire until the trigger is released, the magazine is empty, or (far more common than most would like to admit) the dratted thing jams ).

Automatic pistols are really only semi-automatic, firing a single shot each time the trigger is depressed (the slide ejects the spent cartridge and brings up the next one, but it happens too fast to be seen by the naked eye). A fully automatic pistol would either break too easily, or the recoil would make it dangerous to the user and impossible to aim. Revolvers are preferred by some over automatics, because they're far less likely to jam.
 

Ray McCarthy

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#9
Belts are because on fully automatic ... well like 20 shot six-shooter revolvers ... a regular magazine empties VERY fast, it's just a continuous crashing sound, films are not realistic.

Machine Gun: Sterling MK4 SMG - The Firearm Blog

Sterling was supposed to replace the 1940 STEN in 1944, but maybe not common till 1953.

The STEN and sterling are very light ( I thought Sterling can remove fingertips, though maybe it was the STEN gun that did that). Apparently a range of baby strollers (2004?) inc. one called a Sterling were recalled due to a tendency to do the same :( . T

Both use 9mm ammo.


A modified Sterling is a Starwars Stormtrooper prop.

Used 9mm ammo in 1940s (don't know how compatible with Russian Makarov 9mm pistol ammo, actually I think there are 3 flavours). The Bren in comparison is used on ground with legs, has interchangeable barrel (instead of water cooling) and uses ammo more like a .303 rifle.

Sten - Wikipedia
The 1940 equivalent of a rapid load cheap crossbow, poor range, maybe 100m.

Sterling submachine gun - Wikipedia

Carry a lot of magazines for your machine gun.
 

Cathbad

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#10
The STEN and sterling are very light ( I thought Sterling can remove fingertips, though maybe it was the STEN gun that did that). Apparently a range of baby strollers (2004?) inc. one called a Sterling were recalled due to a tendency to do the same :( . T

Both use 9mm ammo.
The baby strollers used 9mm? :eek:

~Am gonna be reeeeeal uneasy around babies from now on...~ :unsure:
 

The Ace

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#11
Belts are because on fully automatic ... well like 20 shot six-shooter revolvers ... a regular magazine empties VERY fast, it's just a continuous crashing sound, films are not realistic.

Machine Gun: Sterling MK4 SMG - The Firearm Blog

Sterling was supposed to replace the 1940 STEN in 1944, but maybe not common till 1953.

The STEN and sterling are very light ( I thought Sterling can remove fingertips, though maybe it was the STEN gun that did that). Apparently a range of baby strollers (2004?) inc. one called a Sterling were recalled due to a tendency to do the same :( . T

Both use 9mm ammo.


A modified Sterling is a Starwars Stormtrooper prop.

Used 9mm ammo in 1940s (don't know how compatible with Russian Makarov 9mm pistol ammo, actually I think there are 3 flavours). The Bren in comparison is used on ground with legs, has interchangeable barrel (instead of water cooling) and uses ammo more like a .303 rifle.

Sten - Wikipedia
The 1940 equivalent of a rapid load cheap crossbow, poor range, maybe 100m.

Sterling submachine gun - Wikipedia

Carry a lot of magazines for your machine gun.
The Bren used the same .303 ammunition as the Lee-Enfield rifles carried by accompanying troops - like most machineguns (the German MG 34 and -42 used the same 7.92mm Mauser cartridge of service rifles) it's ALWAYS a good idea for troops and machine-gunners to be able to exchange ammunition.

The Sten gun was a cheap version of the Lanchester, itself a copy of the German MP-28 (an MP-18 with a stick magazine replacing the snail type used on the WWI weapon). Erna-Werke produced the Mp 38/40 series of submachine guns (often erroneously referred to as, "Schmeissers,") because they needed a cheap, mass-produced alternative to the excellent but expensive MP-28. The entire family used the 9mm Parabellum round developed for the Luger pistol, allowing (among others) French Resistance fighters to use captured German ammunition for their weapons. If you gripped a Sten by the barrel-shroud, the moving bolt was, indeed, a danger to fingers, but no more than any other SMG firing from an open bolt (most of them).

EVERYBODY complains about the Sten, but I take that attitude with a pinch of salt due to two factors;

1) The number of people in tight corners who survived to complain about the lousy weapon inflicted on them by their superiors.

2) All over Europe, the Sten was often the only firearm available to resistance groups, the thing played no small part in liberating half a continent.

All, "Star Wars," did with Sterlings was whip off the magazines.
 

Ray McCarthy

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#12
The baby strollers used 9mm?
2014, not 2004.

Graco Recalls 11 Models of Strollers Due to Fingertip Amputation Hazard
Graco has received 11 reports of finger injuries including six reports of finger amputation, four reports of partial-fingertip laceration and one finger laceration. As such and in cooperation with the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC), we are conducting a voluntary recall on select stroller models manufactured over the past 14 years.
Graco :: 2014 Stroller Recall
While waiting for a repair kit, caregivers should exercise extreme care when unfolding the stroller to be certain that the hinges are firmly locked before placing a child in the stroller. Caregivers are advised to immediately remove the child from a stroller that begins to fold to keep their fingers from the side hinge area. We apologize in advance for any inconvenience this may cause you and we will make every effort to get you the repair kit as soon as possible. For a complete list of strollers affected, click here. For additional questions, contact our customer service team.
Without even giving the babies 9mm ammo. Very scary!
 

Ray McCarthy

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#13
The Bren used the same .303 ammunition as the Lee-Enfield rifles carried by accompanying troops
I think I used one that took SLR ammo? Not quite same size as .303. The SLR has less "kick" than a .303 Lee Enfield. Very sore shoulder ...

The Bren (I was told) couldn't use the .303 Lee Enfield Blanks (which are still deadly at close range!), it had a half disk on an alternate barrel and used wooden bullets on the shells (blue?). The weapon sprayed wood splinters sideways. I was told that the reload/eject mechanism (which makes the Bren creep forward, you used a pair of casings as pegs in the feet) needed the bullet/Shell, the card disk in a regular blank supposedly doesn't work.
 

The Ace

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#14
I think I used one that took SLR ammo? Not quite same size as .303. The SLR has less "kick" than a .303 Lee Enfield. Very sore shoulder ...

The Bren (I was told) couldn't use the .303 Lee Enfield Blanks (which are still deadly at close range!), it had a half disk on an alternate barrel and used wooden bullets on the shells (blue?). The weapon sprayed wood splinters sideways. I was told that the reload/eject mechanism (which makes the Bren creep forward, you used a pair of casings as pegs in the feet) needed the bullet/Shell, the card disk in a regular blank supposedly doesn't work.[/QUOT

When the army went over to the SLR, many Brens were re-chambered in the SLR's 7.62mm NATO - they could be externally identified because the rimless cartridge didn't need the classic curved magazine. The 7.62 round was a bit more powerful than the old .303 (7.7mm) at the expense of accuracy.
 

The Ace

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#15
I think I used one that took SLR ammo? Not quite same size as .303. The SLR has less "kick" than a .303 Lee Enfield. Very sore shoulder ...

The Bren (I was told) couldn't use the .303 Lee Enfield Blanks (which are still deadly at close range!), it had a half disk on an alternate barrel and used wooden bullets on the shells (blue?). The weapon sprayed wood splinters sideways. I was told that the reload/eject mechanism (which makes the Bren creep forward, you used a pair of casings as pegs in the feet) needed the bullet/Shell, the card disk in a regular blank supposedly doesn't work.
Many Brens were rechambered for 7.62mm NATO, when the army switched to the SLR. The Brens were only replaced with GPMGs much later.
 

WaylanderToo

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#16
Thanks for that. Somewhere I have comic book - I think it was drawn by Jack Kirby - where a character is firing a revolver and there are shell cases in the air. I know NOTHING about guns - but I know that ain't right.
revolvers don't but the semi-automatic ones do (just ask mrs Way who suffered an ejected cartridge down her top, and yes it was funny). The thing with Tommy-guns is you have the choice between the drum magazine and the stick - what no film shows you is quite how not easy it is to load a 50 round stick (ditto pistols but a little better due to being 10ish rounds), furthermore the Tommy-gun does jam
 

RX-79G

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#20
There are several fully automatic pistols that are controllable: Stetchkin, Skorpian, Beretta 93R, HK VP70M, Glock 18.

Cyclic rates for machineguns vary in cyclic rates from 500 rounds per minute to about 1200. The lower end is distinct budda, budda, while the high end sounds like fabric tearing. The early drum fed Thompsons had a rather low cyclic rate.

Different guns eject rounds differently, but most throw the empties to the right.

When in doubt, youtube.
 

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