Earthfault: The Prince - opening

[James118]

Sew (yes, that was intentional), you may recall me posting about the opening of my next book, a prequel to what I just released on Kindle and I will one day release physically via CreateSpace when they stop saying my covers don't meet their obscenely precise requirements (how am I to measure inches in Paint? Morons).

I managed to articulate to a friend yesterday why I'm not 100% comfortable with this scene. It's not just that I haven't had a chance to give it a real polish yet, but because, in the new version... well, see for yourselves...

Oh dear. It's a little over 1500 words. Well, school and university always used to allow us a 10% leeway, which this qualifies for, so screw it:
-------------------------------------


Damon’s horse thundered over the earth, spitting up dry clods and a small cloud of dust as he led the retinue across the plain. The young prince rode high on his steed, his stern face unyielding to the strong winds ruffling his short dark hair as he wheeled his horse about to get his bearings.

“Where did it go?” he called as the pair of riders behind him caught up. “Did you see it?”

“To the north, sire,” Sispins said. A bear of a man, his voice had little trouble carrying across the howling winds . “Seeking refuge near the Ismun, no doubt. Let’s get after it!”

With a nod, Damon turned his horse towards the river and kicked off. To his left, the Frestin Mountains towered above, their shoulders capped in snow even now, at the height of summer, running to the north as far as Damon could see. He hoped one day to one day be tall enough to see their northern arm, the border of the kingdom, from his proud city itself. At their feet lay the valley of the River Ismun. Steeps slopes had been carved by untold millennia, icy waters churning somewhere below, unseen over the ridges.

The trio approached the ridge and paused. Frowning, Damon reached into a pocket of his richly woven cloak, catching a glimpse of Bahg to his left. The orcs’s fangs glistened in the summer sun. “What are you smiling about?”

“It’s just such a gorgeous view,” he said wistfully, breathing in the scent of the vale.

“Never mind that.” The parchment in Damon’s hand rustled as he unfurled it. “How close are we to the bridge? What? What is this?!” He stared at the map, nonplussed.

“It’s a map of Erdra,” Bahg explained.

“I can see that!” Damon snapped. “Why would I need a map of Halon and Benchil for a simple hunting ride on the Plain?!”

“Here you go, sire,” Sispins said, leaning to Damon. “A map of the Plain itself, complete with the bridge to Dyril.”

Bahg frowned at the map. “Where is Dyril?”

Sispins laughed sharply. “The elves hide themselves so high up in the mountains, it’s not worth putting them on there.”

“Wh-… even Amsond is not on this map.” Bahg pointed to the south-western corner, where the Frestin Mountains appeared to peter out.

“If it’s not under the king’s rule, it doesn’t concern us.”

“We needn’t worry about anywhere besides the Plain for now, Bahg,” Damon said, holding up a hand as he put the map back in his pocket. “What worries me is if that deer has escaped to the other side of the river, we’ll have no way to catch it.”

Sispins lifted his reins. “Then let’s make haste!”

The company continued its ride northward, following the course of the river upstream, along the feet of the mountains. The land grew rougher here, rising and falling more unevenly. Damon’s stomach soon began to growl, and he decided that they should pursue their quarry and take it back to the castle for a hearty meal. As the morning wore on, Bahg tracked the deer further north, within sight of the northern border of Trimus and indeed Erdra; few had ever been able to venture more than a few dozen miles into the mountains without finding anything more than endless peaks. The river Ismun curved alongside the mountains too, though growing narrower as it neared its source, and the trio was able to ford a shallow neck and continue into the wooded foothills of the mountains. Somewhere to the east, Damon spotted Crimnel Tower, the tallest building in Remrik. The ‘village’ was little more than a tiny, shabby cluster of buildings that somehow eked an existence clinging to the cold, hard hillside. He turned away and continued through the woods after Bahg.

Despite the padding and breath of the horses, Damon soon heard low voices. Curious, he followed Bahg until they rounded a large tree, where a couple of people wrapped in rags appeared to be crouching over a dead deer. Damon stared angrily, spotting the arrow buried in the animal’s neck, and the bow on one of the peasants’ back. “What happened here?”

One of the peasants looked up, a lope-eyed woman with greying hair and enormous teeth. “We was jus’ huntin’ this deer, sire, don’ mind us.”

“This deer,” Damon began, “that I have been hunting from the west of the Plain.”

“Chased ‘im a long way up ‘ere, then,” the other peasant grinned, a similarly misshapen man. “Thanks fer tha’.”

“Thanks?” Sispins hissed, turning his horse to get a closer look at the pair. “You can give your prince thanks by giving him his prize.”

“‘Is wha’?”

“‘Is prize?” The woman’s voice pinched unpleasantly high. “We’re the ones ‘oo killed ‘im.”

“In my kingdom,” Damon said. “An animal I pursued.”

“‘Snot our fault you couldn’ keep up.”

“How dare you?” Sispins whispered.

“Lostor,” Bahg said sternly.

Damon and Sispins turned to the orc, who was watching them both with a cautious frown. His face softened as he turned to the prince. “Damon, let these peasants have it. We’ll find another.”

“Another?” Damon turned his horse to face the advisor. His eyes flicked to the broach holding his meagre cloak over his shoulders, bearing the triangular crest of the city in one corner, but dominated by the image of a pick; he was a member of Malabeck’s office. “Let us remember who is the king and who is a servant of the Plain. Mine is the right to this prize.”

“It is,” Bahg said. “But their need is greater than yours.”

“Their need doesn’t concern me,” Damon returned. “I have pursued this deer across my kingdom for hours. If their need is greater than mine, they can damn well move to the city and enjoy a better life there.”

One of the peasants snorted. “A be’er life.”

Damon glared down at them. “There is more in the dirtiest hole of Trimus than in this forsaken place.”

“Like wha’?”

“Do not question your prince!” Sispins snapped. “Give him the deer and be glad he doesn’t have you dragged back to Trimus for your impudence!”

Damon watched expectantly, tempted to have them dragged away even when they had returned his deer. Bahg sighed next to him.

“Come,” the orc said at length. “Let’s get back to the city and leave them to enjoy their luck.”

“Are you mad?!” Sispins cried. “We can’t let them do this!”

“Do wha’?” the man asked. “Eat our firs’ bit o’ meat in months? Off a deer we killed weselfs?”

“Chased to your doorstep by the king’s son himself,” Sispins returned. He reached for the sword at his side.

This time, Bahg glared across Damon at Sispins. “Are you serious? You want to kill them over a dead deer?”

“They should learn to respect the will of the king’s son!” Sispins made to swing himself from his steed.

“Enough!” Damon barked, his hand raised. “I will decide what to do with these wretches. I am a son of Trimus, of the Triden family, and you will all submit to my will.” He turned to the peasants. “I have been pursuing this deer for hours, you cannot simply kill it as it happens upon your way and claim it for yourself.”

“We was ‘fore you came along.”

“But now I’m here.” Damon turned and jumped down from his horse. “To take what is mine. Sispins?”

“Of course, my liege.” The hulking knight sheathed his sword, turned, and thudded off his horse, joining Damon. The boy loured at the peasants as they stared back.

“Wha’ you gonna do?” the man asked, almost mockingly.

With a snarl, Damon reached forwards and grabbed the deer’s head, pulling it forcefully. “Sispins, the hindquarters!”

“No, i‘s ours!” The male peasant dived onto the deer, clutching its chest as tightly as he could. Damon struggled with the head, twisting it about to try and wrench the animal from the peasant as Sispins lifted the rest of the body, ripping the beast from the woman’s grasp.

“Stop this, stop!”

Behind him, Damon heard Bahg dismount his horse. As Sispins struggled with the body, Damon lost his grip and tumbled to the ground. He rolled over, mud smearing over his pale hands before he jumped to his feet.

The peasant was on his knees, loose trousers soiled as he held the deer with all his might, Sispins struggling to lift it. Bahg was stood with a hand on each. They were all watching Damon, either horrified or ashamed.




-----------------------------------------------------------------


So the problem for me is that the conflict feels too on the nose. Because the boy prince is like 'f*** you peasants, I want that deer'. Whereas before it was just the boy daydreaming (at night) and thinking about the kingdom, its geography and history. A lot of people thought that boring, fair enough, it's not the most enrapturing of beginnings and I know that and now want to amend it. But importantly the emphasis was on stoic but subtly ignorant pride, rather than aggressive arrogance.

So as a return to that less blunt characterisation, I was considering maybe a chatter at a feast (for exposition), or maybe some sort of coming of age ceremony. But yeah. This is it for now.

Also, I feel like I employed some decent 'show, don't tell' here, but maybe too much.

Also also, some of the italics didn't translate from Google Docs. I added what I could find.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

Damn, it got snipped. D: Umm. It's only 93 extra words... Maybe I could message it to anyone interested, I dunno.

The 1500 word rule is written in stone, I'm afraid. When in doubt, always ask a mod. Anyhow, we normally get what we need in 1500 words.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

Okay, I come with teeth. Be warned. Comments in bold in the text box.

-------------------------------------


Damon’s horse thundered over the earth, spitting up dry clods and a small cloud of dust as he Damon or the horse? it's hard to tell. I'm not sure it really matters per se, but it threw me and you don't want to lose people early on led the retinue across the plain. The young prince rode high on his steed, his stern face unyielding to the strong winds ruffling his short dark hairHow much of this do I actually need to know? Do I need that he has dark hair, or that he rode high? Get us immersed, first, then we'll be interested in taking more time for description (but, to be fair, I'm a description light type of person) as he wheeled his horse about to get his bearings.

“Where did it go?” he called as the pair of riders behind him caught up. “Did you see it?”

“To the north, sire,” Sispins said. A bear of a man, his voice had little trouble carrying across the howling winds . “Seeking refuge near the Ismun, no doubt. Let’s get after it!”

With a nod, Damon turned his horse towards the river and kicked off. To his left, the Frestin Mountains towered above, their shoulders capped in snow even now, at the height of summer, running to the northIt sounds like the mountains are running north because of the time of year. I think your sentence structure is a little convuluted and you're trying to get too much in and things are coming at me in the wrong order. Maybe one of the grammaticians might come along and explain it better.) as far as Damon could see. He hoped one day to one day repeat - drop one be tall enough to see their northern arm, the border of the kingdom, from his proud city itself. At their feet lay the valley of the River Ismun. Steeps steep slopes had been carved by untold millennia, icy waters churning somewhere below, unseen over the ridges.

Okay, so I'm about 100 words or so in and I've been asked to take in:

Horses kicking up clods and dust, that Damon's a prince with a stern face and dark hair, and it's windy. That he has two riders with him, but also a retinue behind who I'm wondering about (unless they are the retinue, but that term makes me think of more), that one is called Sispins and he's big. That they're chasing something that might be in Ismun, whatever it is, but it seems to be in the north. We also have a range of mountains. And it's the height of the summer, even though it's so windy. Oh, and that's there's a city, and Ismun is a valley, and his kingdom has a border, but I don't know where it is.

In short, all this is coming at me without it seeming to be ordered, or linked, and I'm losing it all. There's too much, and I really just want to know about Damon at this stage and whether he's worth following. Sorry, that's hard, I know and others might feel differently.

The trio approached the ridge and paused. Frowning, Damon reached into a pocket of his richly woven cloak, catching a glimpse of Bahg argh, more names! to his left. The orcs’s orc's - orc is singular fangs glistened in the summer sun. “What are you smiling about?”says who?

“It’s just such a gorgeous view,” he who? said wistfully, breathing in the scent of the vale.

“Never mind that.” The parchment in Damon’s hand rustled as he unfurled it. “How close are we to the bridge? But they're in their own kingdom, they seem to know the land. I fear he's looking at the map to tell the reader something clever. What? What is this?!” He stared at the map, nonplussed the dialogue tells us he's nonplussed - there's no need to repeat it.

“It’s a map of Erdra,” Bahg explained.

“I can see that!” Damon snapped. “Why would I need a map of Halon and Benchil for a simple hunting ride on the Plain?!Why would he need any map for a hunting trip on a plain? And, also, I'm a bit disappointed. I thought - because I was led to believe it - that there was something exciting being chased and now it's just a simple hunting trip? At this point, I'd put the book back - my trust that the writer wasn't going to lead me into lots of dead ends and clever cliff hangers that aren't really would be gone. ”

“Here you go, sire,” Sispins said, leaning to Damon. “A map of the Plain itself, complete with the bridge to Dyril.”

Bahg frowned at the map. “Where is Dyril?”

Sispins laughed sharply. “The elves hide themselves so high up in the mountains, it’s not worth putting them on there.”

“Wh-… even Amsond is not on this map.” Bahg pointed to the south-western corner, where the Frestin Mountains appeared to peterpeeter? out.

“If it’s not under the king’s rule, it doesn’t concern us.”

“We needn’t worry about anywhere besides the Plain for now, Bahg,” Damon said, holding up a hand as he put the map back in his pocket. “What worries me is if that deer so, why didn't he just say it was a deer earlier? It feels like that was hidden to keep the reader guessing and reading on has escaped to the other side of the river, we’ll have no way to catch it.”

Sispins lifted his reins. “Then let’s make haste!”

The company continued its ride northward, following the course of the river upstream, along the feet of the mountains. The land grew rougher here, rising and falling more unevenly. Damon’s stomach soon began to growl, and he decided that they should pursue their quarry and take it back to the castle for a hearty meal. I'm not entirely sure, but doesn't venison need to be hung before cooking? Maybe have its heart and liver for a hearty meal? Make it seem more like a huntsman would think. As the morning wore on, Bahg tracked the deer further north, within sight of the northern border of Trimus and indeed Erdra; few had ever been able to venture more than a few dozen miles into the mountains without finding anything more than endless peaks. The river Ismun curved alongside the mountains too, though growing narrower as it neared its source, and the trio was able to ford a shallow neck and continue into the wooded foothills of the mountains. I'm losing interest here. There's more about the land than about the plot, characters or story. Somewhere to the east, Damon spotted Crimnel Tower, the tallest building in Remrik. The ‘village’ was little more than a tiny, shabby cluster of buildings that somehow eked an existence clinging to the cold, hard hillside. He turned away and continued through the woods after Bahg.

Despite the padding and breath of the horses, Damon soon heard low voices. Curious, he followed Bahg until they rounded a large tree, where a couple of people wrapped in rags appeared to be crouching over a dead deer. Damon stared angrily, spotting the arrow buried in the animal’s neck, and the bow on one of the peasants’ back. “What happened here?”

One of the peasants looked up, a lope-eyed woman with greying hair and enormous teeth. “We was jus’ huntin’ this deer, sire, don’ mind us.”

“This deer,” Damon began, “that I have been hunting from the west of the Plain.”

“Chased ‘im a long way up ‘ere, then,” the other peasant grinned, a similarly misshapen man. “Thanks fer tha’.”

“Thanks?” Sispins hissed, turning his horse to get a closer look at the pair. “You can give your prince thanks by giving him his prize.”

“‘Is wha’?”

“‘Is prize?” The woman’s voice pinched pitched? unpleasantly high. “We’re the ones ‘oo killed ‘im.”

“In my kingdom,” Damon said. “An animal I pursued.”

“‘Snot our fault you couldn’ keep up.”

“How dare you?” Sispins whispered.

“Lostor,” Bahg said sternly.

Damon and Sispins turned to the orc, who was watching them both with a cautious frown. His face softened as he turned to the prince. “Damon, let these peasants have it. We’ll find another.”

“Another?” Damon turned his horse to face the advisorwhich one is that, then? I'm getting hugely confused. . His eyes flicked to the broach holding his meagre cloak over his shoulders, bearing the triangular crest of the city in one corner, but dominated by the image of a pick; he was a member of Malabeck’s office. “Let us remember who is the kingI thought he was a prince? and who is a servant of the Plain. Mine is the right to this prize.”

“It is,” it didn't seem to be - the peasant thought it was theirs. If it had rightfully been the prince's why would they have challenged him for it? Bahg said. “But their need is greater than yours.”

“Their need doesn’t concern me,” Damon returned. “I have pursued this deer across my kingdom for hours. If their need is greater than mine, they can damn well move to the city and enjoy a better life there.”

One of the peasants snorted. “A be’er life.”

Damon glared down at them. “There is more in the dirtiest hole of Trimus than in this forsaken place.”

“Like wha’?”

“Do not question your prince!” Sispins snapped. “Give him the deer and be glad he doesn’t have you dragged back to Trimus for your impudence!”

Damon watched expectantly, tempted to have them dragged away even when they had returned his deer. Bahg sighed next to him.

“Come,” the orc said at length. “Let’s get back to the city and leave them to enjoy their luck.”

“Are you mad?!” Sispins cried. “We can’t let them do this!”

“Do wha’?” the man asked. “Eat our firs’ bit o’ meat in months? Off a deer we killed weselfs?”

“Chased to your doorstep by the king’s son himself,” Sispins returned. He reached for the sword at his side.

This time, Bahg glared across Damon at Sispins. “Are you serious? You want to kill them over a dead deer?”

“They should learn to respect the will of the king’s son!” Sispins made to swing himself from his steed.Okay, here, I'm totally turned off. He's horrid, nothing is happening and this long dialogue seems to be going nowhere. Where's the conflict? The stakes? What's going to keep me reading.

“Enough!” Damon barked, his hand raised. “I will decide what to do with these wretches. I am a son of Trimus, of the Triden family, and you will all submit to my will.” He turned to the peasants. “I have been pursuing this deer for hours, you cannot simply kill it as it happens upon your way and claim it for yourself.”

“We was ‘fore you came along.”

“But now I’m here.” Damon turned and jumped down from his horse. “To take what is mine. Sispins?”

“Of course, my liege.” The hulking knight sheathed his sword, turned, and thudded off his horse, joining Damon. The boy loured ? at the peasants as they stared back.

“Wha’ you gonna do?” the man asked, almost mockingly.The peasants aren't scared - so why should we be? Peasants know how things are. If they're not aware of danger, there's no conflict.

With a snarl, Damon reached forwards and grabbed the deer’s head, pulling it forcefully. “Sispins, the hindquarters!”

“No, i‘s ours!” The male peasant dived onto the deer, clutching its chest as tightly as he could. Damon struggled with the head, twisting it about to try and wrench the animal from the peasant as Sispins lifted the rest of the body, ripping the beast from the woman’s grasp.

“Stop this, stop!”

Behind him, Damon heard Bahg dismount his horse. As Sispins struggled with the body, Damon lost his grip and tumbled to the ground. He rolled over, mud smearing over his pale hands before he jumped to his feet.

The peasant was on his knees, loose trousers soiled as he held the deer with all his might, Sispins struggling to lift it. Bahg was stood with a hand on each. They were all watching Damon, either horrified or ashamed.




-----------------------------------------------------------------


So the problem for me is that the conflict feels too on the nose. Because the boy prince is like 'f*** you peasants, I want that deer'. Whereas before it was just the boy daydreaming (at night) and thinking about the kingdom, its geography and history. A lot of people thought that boring, fair enough, it's not the most enrapturing of beginnings and I know that and now want to amend it. But importantly the emphasis was on stoic but subtly ignorant pride, rather than aggressive arrogance.

So as a return to that less blunt characterisation, I was considering maybe a chatter at a feast (for exposition), or maybe some sort of coming of age ceremony. But yeah. This is it for now.

Also, I feel like I employed some decent 'show, don't tell' here, but maybe too much.

Also also, some of the italics didn't translate from Google Docs. I added what I could find.

Okay, for me this really, really didn't work. There is no conflict that I can see. What there is, at the beginning, turns out to be, at best, exaggerated by the author. Nothing is happening. I can't find a hook. Sorry, but I think if this were me, I'd go back and try to find a different place to start. There is no stoic pride that I can see, just petulance and immaturity.

The grammar etc is fine, but the story and characters don't work for me - sorry I can't be more positive about it.

 

[James118]

It's fine, you say what you've gotta say. Some of those spelling and grammatical mistakes must have popped up in my last brief reread and edit before posting. Although I was not aware peter out should be peeter. In fact, it shouldn't be, everything on Google is telling me I spelled it fine.

As for everything coming out in a big convoluted mess, I understand. A lot of the original scene was just a sort of stream of thought (not technically stream of consciousness), and I wanted to reflect that natural thought process of following the mountains and stuff in here. I may ultimately leave it out, of this and the entire story, I'm not sure yet. And yeah, one person's natural stream may be another's jumbled nonsense.

Trying to work out what I wanted to say in this scene vs. what was in the old one was tricky, but I think that was ultimately overshadowing what the scene needed: the basic gist is that this young prince is an ambitious, knowledgeable young man, and proud of his city. That's what my scene plan says for the previous version, in the characterisation column. And yes, I'm aware character needs to be tied into an interesting plot development or source of conflict in each scene. Unfortunately I don't think that character comes across great here - like I said above, it feels more like vicious, eye-rolling petulance, kinda cliche (hello, Joffrey Baratheon) than simple pride. My biggest problem is how to make it feel that way without throwing in an opposing voice, because with that kind of antagonism, it's only going to make the pride undesirably malicious... A less outspoken character could do that, but then it'd be like Damon just talking to a brick wall that says 'Yes, sire.' every other line.

This is going to be a tricky one. Keep in mind - as I mentioned in the old thread but I don't blame anyone for forgetting or not seeing it - this is a prequel about a villain. This boy is going to grow up to be a very bad man. And at this stage, he's meant to be fiercely proud of his heritage and royalty, pretty much a Mini Me of his arrogant, bigoted father. I just don't want to play the bigot card so soon, I want him to be more just fondly proud. It's not about rooting for him in the next few scenes as much as it's about observing him, because he will learn some lessons.

Btw, the end of the scene was Damon giving up on deer but snapping at Bahg and saying Damon was going to let his father (the king) know about his disobedience. That was the beginning of both an external plot thread, and an internal source of conflict: for the former, Damon would chase up Bahg's punishment and have (fruitless) informal words with his boss, aforementioned Malabeck, planting seeds of resentment. For the latter, he would seek to assert his royal authority in the following scenes, by whatever means and to whatever degree he could.

 

[Brian G Turner]

Damon’s horse thundered over the earth, spitting up dry clods and a small cloud of dust as he led the retinue across the plain. The young prince rode high on his steed, his stern face unyielding to the strong winds ruffling his short dark hair as he wheeled his horse about to get his bearings. You appear to have dropped quickly into an omniscient POV, which is acceptable but isn't so favoured these days.

“Where did it go?” he called as the pair of riders behind him caught up. “Did you see it?” And? What does he want? You give no character experience in this piece, which potentially undermines your storytelling

“To the north, sire,” Sispins said. A bear of a man, his voice had little trouble carrying across the howling winds . “Seeking refuge near the Ismun, no doubt. Let’s get after it!”

With a nod, Damon turned his horse towards the river and kicked off. To his left, the Frestin Mountains towered above, their shoulders capped in snow even now, at the height of summer, running to the north as far as Damon could see. He hoped one day to one day - repetition be tall enough to see their northern arm, the border of the kingdom, from his proud city itself. Eh? How tall is he really erxpecting to grow? If he can't see the northern arm from here, or from his city, then I can only presume that he's planning to grow a few hundred feet tall in order to see it. That's what you're implying, because there's no way growing a foot tall will give him angle enough to see it. At their feet lay the valley of the River Ismun. Steeps slopes had been carved by untold millennia, icy waters churning somewhere below, unseen over the ridges. I'm forced to stop to struggle over this description to try and understand what you mean. Are you implying something like the Grand Canyon?

The trio approached the ridge and paused. Frowning And? What's he feeling/thinking? At the moment you're writing this as if we're watching a film, which is a novice mistake, Damon reached into a pocket of his richly woven cloak Has he only just noticed that his clothes are richly woven? He is a prince, isn't he? I think that unless you want us to imagine a very specific piece of clothing, then the reader can already imagine that he's richly dressed, catching a glimpse of Bahg to his left. The orcs’s fangs glistened in the summer sun. “What are you smiling about?”

“It’s just such a gorgeous view,” he said wistfully, breathing in the scent of the vale.

“Never mind that.” The parchment in Damon’s hand rustled as he unfurled it. “How close are we to the bridge? What? What is this?!” He stared at the map, nonplussed. Nonplussed is the only character experience you've suggested so far


“It’s a map of Erdra,” Bahg explained.

“I can see that!” Damon snapped. “Why would I need a map of Halon and Benchil for a simple hunting ride on the Plain?!”

“Here you go, sire,” Sispins said, leaning to Damon. “A map of the Plain itself, complete with the bridge to Dyril.”

Bahg frowned at the map. “Where is Dyril?”

Sispins laughed sharply. “The elves hide themselves so high up in the mountains, it’s not worth putting them on there.”

“Wh-… even Amsond is not on this map.” Bahg pointed to the south-western corner, where the Frestin Mountains appeared to peter out.

“If it’s not under the king’s rule, it doesn’t concern us.”

“We needn’t worry about anywhere besides the Plain for now, Bahg,” Damon said, holding up a hand as he put the map back in his pocket. “What worries me is if that deer has escaped to the other side of the river, we’ll have no way to catch it.”

^ This is all unnecessary. If Damon knows his land so well - as implied earlier - then why does he need to keep asking about it? You seem to be using all this solely to give us a geography lesson, which is not very inviting from a reader's point of view. The landscape is important when it's important to the characters, and none of this appears important to Damon. Additionally, surely his trusty men know where to find such an important feature as a bridge in their own land? If they don't, then Damon is in real danger here of becoming lost in an unfamiliar land, which doesn't seem realistic

Sispins lifted his reins. “Then let’s make haste!”

The company continued its ride northward, following the course of the river upstream, along the feet of the mountains. The land grew rougher here, rising and falling more unevenly. Damon’s stomach soon began to growl, and he decided that they should pursue their quarry and take it back to the castle for a hearty meal. As the morning wore on, Bahg tracked the deer further north, within sight of the northern border of Trimus and indeed Erdra; few had ever been able to venture more than a few dozen miles into the mountains without finding anything more than endless peaks. The river Ismun curved alongside the mountains too, though growing narrower as it neared its source, and the trio was able to ford a shallow neck and continue into the wooded foothills of the mountains. Somewhere to the east, Damon spotted Crimnel Tower, the tallest building in Remrik. The ‘village’ was little more than a tiny, shabby cluster of buildings that somehow eked an existence clinging to the cold, hard hillside. He turned away and continued through the woods after Bahg.

^ Another geography lesson!

Despite the padding and breath of the horses, Damon soon heard low voices. Curious, he followed Bahg until they rounded a large tree, where a couple of people wrapped in rags appeared to be crouching over a dead deer. Damon stared angrily, spotting the arrow buried in the animal’s neck, and the bow on one of the peasants’ back. “What happened here?”

One of the peasants looked up, a lope-eyed woman with greying hair and enormous teeth. “We was jus’ huntin’ this deer, sire, don’ mind us.”

From Europe to Asia, from ancient to mediaeval times, the hunting of deer was a privilege of the land owner. And punishable by death if anyone else tries it.

“This deer,” Damon began, “that I have been hunting from the west of the Plain.”

“Chased ‘im a long way up ‘ere, then,” the other peasant grinned, a similarly misshapen man. “Thanks fer tha’.”

“Thanks?” Sispins hissed, turning his horse to get a closer look at the pair. “You can give your prince thanks by giving him his prize.”

“‘Is wha’?”

“‘Is prize?” The woman’s voice pinched unpleasantly high. “We’re the ones ‘oo killed ‘im.”

“In my kingdom,” Damon said. “An animal I pursued.”

“‘Snot our fault you couldn’ keep up.”

“How dare you?” Sispins whispered.

“Lostor,” Bahg said sternly.

Damon and Sispins turned to the orc, who was watching them both with a cautious frown. His face softened as he turned to the prince. “Damon, let these peasants have it. We’ll find another.”

^ There's no tension in any of the above dialogue. Additionally, it's coming across as chatter. Nothing is really resolved, other than Prince Damon dedicates his time to tracking a deer, then apparently lets the whole idea go because he doesn't want a confrontation with a couple of peasants. It makes him looks weak-minded.

“Another?” Damon turned his horse to face the advisor. His eyes flicked to the broach holding his meagre cloak over his shoulders, bearing the triangular crest of the city in one corner, but dominated by the image of a pick; he was a member of Malabeck’s office. “Let us remember who is the king and who is a servant of the Plain. Mine is the right to this prize.”

“It is,” Bahg said. “But their need is greater than yours.”

“Their need doesn’t concern me,” Damon returned. “I have pursued this deer across my kingdom for hours. If their need is greater than mine, they can damn well move to the city and enjoy a better life there.”

And now he's coming across as simply petulant. I'm going to stop here.


The problem here is that you are still struggling with basic technical issues such as POV use, conflict, stakes, and infodumping. You're making a lot of basic mistakes, resulting in a piece with no real sense of conflict, tension, or stakes. This is all ordinary in the novice writer, but if you are seriously talking about publishing now then I can only warn you that you are probably rushing to do so far too soon.

Have a look at our Writing Resources section, read Wonderbook by Jeff Vandermeer for general help with technical details, and Save the Cat by Blake Snyder for help with character development. I recommended these and the Brandon Sanderson lectures in your other Critique piece. You will need to look at these if you are really serious about developing skills as a writer.

2c.

 

[James118]

Thanks for the feedback, Brian.

Welp. I believe 'skewered' is the appropriate term. But yes, all very welcome, of course. So I think I'll be changing this. I will indeed cut the geography lessons that aren't plot relevant - I suspect my obsession with visualising everything and having a map may have forced my hand there. There's a few bits I wrote in that are just picking details out for the audience rather than the character, like the richly-woven cloak, but I just wanted to say that it was a nice cloak. I know it's irrelevant. But it's part of the picture. I'm saying it for the audience; 'course Damon knows he's what he's wearing, but the audience doesn't, and a big ol' cloak is a nice bit of colour for the character image. I mean, I would have ordinarily said it's descriptive overkill, but apparently people like that.

In my head I sound waspish. Sorry. Think I definitely rushed into posting this. Just wanted some help in building an initial scene. More than polishing it, I guess. Back to the drawing board. As I said to Jo, the intention here was to portray stoic pride, rather than hurtful arrogance. If you have any ideas about that, without additional characters drawing it into a clash of ideologies, it would be great. It's only been a day or two, so I definitely need to spend more time on this, and have another look at all the following scenes again to ensure they fit - in terms of both plot and relevant world-building detail - with what I ultimately do with the opening, whatever form it ultimately takes.

 

[Brian G Turner]

In my head I sound waspish. Sorry.

Don't worry, you don't come across that way.

However, when I was at that stage of writing I would have told anyone being critical to get lost, else post "Ha, ha, you invalidated your criticism because there's a typo in it!"

That's why I always and wholeheartedly recommend the writing books and BR lectures to you, and to a lot of other people here. There are other recommendations here. I really wish I'd known about the basics 15 years ago - getting on top of those is more than half the battle.

At the end of the day, though, it's all just my personal opinion though.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

Don't worry, you don't come across that way.

However, when I was at that stage of writing I would have told anyone being critical to get lost, else post "Ha, ha, you invalidated your criticism because there's a typo in it!"

That's why I always and wholeheartedly recommend the writing books and BR lectures to you, and to a lot of other people here. There are other recommendations here. I really wish I'd known about the basics 15 years ago - getting on top of those is more than half the battle.

At the end of the day, though, it's all just my personal opinion though.

And then I come in to iterate there are other ways of learning and if reading a writing book doesn't do it for you (they bore me to death and I've never stuck with one long enough to learn from them) find the vehicle that does. For me, that's crits, good writing group partners, and trying things out (I'm a pragmatist.)

 

[The Judge]

You're right, peter out is spelled like that. Brooch, however, meaning an ornament worn on clothing, is spelled with two "o"s -- broach with an "a" means eg to open or initiate, or to tap a cask (of drink, usually). And it's never "was stood" unless in dialogue or the very close POV of someone who speaks in dialect or otherwise ungrammatically, unless the person has been physically placed in position by someone else eg a dunce in a corner (and even then I'd not encourage it) -- it's "was standing" or simply "stood". Other than those two points, I won't nit-pick, as this is only a draft, but you perhaps do need to watch your sentence construction as and when you revise it.

As you accept, this scene really isn't working, and I'd agree with everything Jo and Brian have mentioned about lack of hook, the overlong descriptions, and the rather painful dropping in of too many names of places which we don't know and can't follow. Regarding description, think carefully about what detail is needed and how much is needed for us to understand where they are. And it's always best to tie it in with character experience -- ie he's cold because of the bitter wind blowing from the mountains, or he's grateful for the shade of the oak trees. The same goes for details of what he's wearing, do it from his perspective eg he's cold, so pulls the cloak about him, thankful he'd chosen the one trimmed with lynx fur not the linsey-woolsey one, or he raises his hand to his eyes, the delicate lace of his cuff tickling his cheek.

Anyway, I was particularly brought up short by the unrealistic nature of the argument with the peasants. As Brian says, historically deer were the sole preserve of the aristocracy/landowners, if not, indeed reserved only to the king, and penalties for taking deer illegally were quick and vicious. Of course, there's no reason why in your mythical land this holds good, and deer might be fair game for anyone, but if you intend to subvert historical norms it's usually a good idea to know why you're doing it and try and show that reason within the story itself so as not to upset those of us who know different. In any event, even if deer can be taken by peasants, those peasants don't tend to talk to their aristocratic betters in this way, not unless they outnumber the aristocrats by a good margin and can be confident of emerging alive at the end of the conversation.

Another historical hiccough for me was referring to Damon as both the young prince and the king, and everyone addressing him as "Sire" which is usually reserved for the king. This isn't impossible. Henry II's second son had a coronation while his father was still alive, and was known as "the Young King" and in theory he reigned alongside his father (though in practice had little or no power) and this was something the French monarchs of the time did, I think. But it is sufficiently unusual that if you want to go down that route, you perhaps ought to make the position clear quickly, so it isn't thought to be a mistake on your part.

If you want to keep this scene, I think it is salvageable. Make it clear from the outset it's a deer hunt, and have him galloping across his land with a feeling of elation, that all this country will one day be his etc, but cut that down to a paragraph at most and delete all the map business which goes nowhere, and inject some real tension and conflict into the scene. You could still eg have them come on the peasants gralloching the deer but if taking the animal were a capital offence, that immediately makes the stakes a good bit higher, or better yet if they are outnumbered by the well-armed peasants, if only temporarily. (As to which you use the words "retinue" and "company" both of which indicate a lot of people, not just a couple, so I was never sure if there were others riding with Damon but just not mentioned, or it was really only the three of them. In reality, there would be a good many people on the hunt, not just the nobles and friends/sycophants, but the people doing the work eg grooms and the men handling the dogs, and they would drive the animal towards the place they planned to eat, where a small army would be preparing all the food ready for their meal, which wouldn't be the vension -- though the dogs would get the entrails.) And if one of the entourage wanted to string the peasants up straight away, that gives your soon-to-be-baddie an opportunity to be magnanimous, which makes his fall later more dramatic.

Having said that, I'm not really sure that wanting to show "stoic pride" (do you really mean stoic, by the way?) is enough of itself to justify a scene at the very opening of a book, even a prequel showing someone's fall. Though I am sure that as written, this present scene doesn't actually do that.

Sorry I can't be more enthusiastic about this. Good luck with it, anyway.



EDIT: I've only just seen the edit to your post #4, so the magnanimous idea won't work, if you need the angry-at-Bahg plot device. In that case, how about their being outnumbered by the peasants, with Bahg effectively saving Damon's life by making him leave before things turn really nasty?

 

[Toby Frost]

I think there are a few options regarding the peasants. All are good for character and worldbuilding.

1) He lets the peasants keep the deer because it’s traditional/legal to do so. This tells us (about the world) that it is ok for peasants to hunt deer, so it is not a direct copy of the real one (well, it has orcs and elves but you see what I mean!) and (about him) that he adheres to tradition and may be a solid, reasonable monarch. I doubt you’d want to use that.

2) He lets the peasants keep the deer even though it’s illegal for them to hunt deer. This tells us (about the world) that it is not ok for peasants to hunt deer, so it may be quite a close copy of the real one and (about him) that he is a guy who makes his own decisions and isn’t afraid of bucking tradition, which may mean that he’s kindly or soft, innovative or headstrong depending on what you want to do. He might make a big show of it to demonstrate how nice he is, when really he’s a capricious maniac. That might be interesting, like that scene in Goodfellas where a crazed gangster only pretends to be angry for a joke, which his frightened men then have to pretend is hilarious.

3) He jumps off the horse and butchers the peasants. This tells us (about the world) that it is not ok for peasants to hunt deer, so it may be quite a close copy of the real one and (about him) that he’s a violent nutcase. His men may or may not approve.

4) He orders the peasants to be imprisoned or punished by his men. This tells us (about the world) that it is not ok for peasants to hunt deer, so it may be quite a close copy of the real one and (about him) that he’s a fairly standard ruler. He may be a reasonable guy by local standards, too: take Eddard Stark’s execution of the deserter at the beginning of A Game of Thrones. There is the risk here that by doing something that’s perfectly acceptable in his world’s terms (punishing peasants for hunting deer) but which seems harsh in our view, you’ll give the wrong impression.

What he won’t do, I think, is enter into an argument or even into much of a conversation with them. After all, it’s his deer twice, since he’s the king and he’s chased it there. Perhaps if there was something extra to them – they had some special significance – he might chat to the peasants, but at best peasants are the lowest soldiers in the army of fantasy society and he’s the general. That said, if the kingdom is in trouble, this sort of thing might happen as the normal rules break down, but I think you’d have to be quite clear about that. Maybe the peasants haven’t actually killed the deer. Perhaps they saw it drop dead from exhaustion and are running to grab its body?

 

[Dan Jones]

Hmm.

Have to agree with the others I'm afraid. The key thing is I'm really not sure what young Damon actually wants. Ok, he wants to catch a deer, but apart from that, what's the bigger picture? There are some scraps of character being thrown in, but I can't see any clear direction of where he wants to go. What's his ambition, and how is this scene relevant to it?

The other problem for me is that there's way way too much fluff and flab in the piece. You could strip easily half of it out. Why is he so angry about the damn map? Why are they even talking about the map? Why is there so much geographical exposition? You could get to the exchange with the peasants much more quickly.

Speaking of which... the exchange with the peasants is odd; I get that you're trying to give us a view of his character, but I don't see why the exchange is relevant. Maybe it's because it's out of context but I fail to see any plot advancement from this. As for the peasants themselves, it just doesn't ring believable for me I'm afraid. What's their impression of Damon and his men? Do they think him a sadist, a pantywaist, a moron, a coward? That should shape their engagement with him. Do they even know he's a Prince? You could arguably make your peasant characters a bit uneducated, but even Thicky McThick the village Thicko would realise that a party of well-heeled knights, presumably carrying some sort of royal standard is probably not to be trifled with.

So their resistance against a Prince and his armed hunting party is a bit off for me. Maybe some pleading or some begrudged sycophancy would work, but I can't see them engaging the Prince in a long, rather pointless conversation and then a fist fight in the mud. If I was an odious prince I'd simply tell my knights to show off some steel and take the damn deer. Which is almost what happens but for the aforementioned conversation and fist fight. Engaging with peasants is not the Princely thing to do (unless you're a nice Prince, like Harry or something). It could all happen with much more brevity and clarity.

The others seem to have picked up the spelling and grammar errors so won't go over that.

Main point: if you identify and convey what Damon wants (not the deer) then we may get something more from the scene.

 

[Hex]

The writing is good and I got involved in the confrontation at the end (though it confused me that the peasants would be so insolent to armed soldiers). I agree that a confrontation with a larger group of better-armed peasants could be exciting.

For me, the issue is drive. Rather than taking us and moving the story toward the scene's climax, it wanders a little (the map is a good example -- confusing, too). To take an example, the scene with the peasants and the orc moves back and forth quite a lot. It's clear that Bahg isn't going to help against the peasants, so it's no surprise when he doesn't.

What if he was prepared to draw his sword etc. to intimidate the peasants and protect his prince, but when ordered to kill, wouldn't actually do so? Then you'd get the build of tension, our certainty that there's going to be murder, the rising excitement and bang -- Bahg won't kill a peasant. Maybe he won't let anyone else kill a peasant, either. Then we're shocked as well.

Have you seen the James Frey book "How to write a damn good novel"? There's a good chapter on using rising tension.

 

[James118]

Thanks for the additional feedback, folks.

I'll be honest, when I started the peasant confrontation, Monty Python and the Holy Grail popped into my head, which is probably why it read like such a farce. XD Maybe they have so little to lose they don't care about being threatened. Anyway, read on, because this is almost certainly getting scrapped.

Meandering thoughts as I fell asleep last night led me towards a game of chess (or a fictional variation thereof, which I titled 'Strategem'), initially depicted as an epic battle for the hook. Might be a tad misleading, mind. But yes, I think it would be a good way to show the boy's less aggressive pride and his intelligence, and would segue well into the following scene, which none of you has read yet; after the original 'daydreaming out the window' one, he then gets told to go to bed and argues with his father's councillors about being told what to do (if you're wondering why the councillors would do that, future plot reasons, and he's playing the game against one of them). Too bratty again? I'll try and make it less vicious, more of a calm refusal and short conversation. Depending on how it all goes, obvz.

 

[millymollymo]

As you've plenty of critique to get you going in the right direction on the prose I have something else you'll want to spend some time playing with.

I will one day release physically via CreateSpace when they stop saying my covers don't meet their obscenely precise requirements (how am I to measure inches in Paint? Morons).

Paint is not* the best software for creating or editing book covers in, not if you want to sell anything.Don't bodge the job, stand out from those who do.

If you can't afford Photoshop...(understandably) try Gimp. No. Not the mask. ¬.¬ Stay on track... GIMP is a GNU FREE image manipulation software - comparable to Photoshop. Spend some time finding your way around it. It is well worth your time if you are going to do professional work.
GIMP - GNU Image Manipulation Program

As you were...back to words.

*(read that in shouty capitals with lots of exclamation marks.)

 

[The Judge]

If you were thinking of making it seem he's engaged in a real blood and guts battle, and it turns out only to be a game of chess, then I think you run the risk of upsetting readers who then won't trust you in later scenes -- false drama and pretend action are real turn-offs. In any event, you shouldn't need to hook your readers artificially in that way -- a game like chess can itself be enough of a hook if it's written well.

I have to return, though, to the issue of what you are trying to do with these opening scenes. Instead of dreaming up scenarios allowing you to info-dump about the country and/or his character, you'd be far better spending time thinking about when the story actually starts. If the argument with the councillors is the point where the plot begins, why shove a few thousand words in front of it? Start with that scene.

 

[Toby Frost]

Can I make a suggestion as to how to start this? This is just an idea.

First, start the story at a point where something new and interesting is happening – not necessarily violent action, but a distinct change from what’s been going on before. Give the hero a role in this change beyond just observing and thinking. He needs to be dealing with the change in some way, grappling with what’s going on. So a messenger turns up and tells him that bandits have attacked. He runs outside to see for himself, that sort of thing.

Then describe everything through his eyes, or, to put it another way, as if he’s the player character in a First Person computer game, the man whose viewpoint takes up the screen. Don’t describe anything in much detail unless it’s new or unexpected to him: someone has put their armour on, or it’s started to snow, etc. Say what effect these changes have on the hero if it makes the story more interesting – seeing Bob wearing a sword makes him nervous, etc. Don’t try to sneak in any description of the world, setting, characters etc. So you might say “He opened the door and saw his wife” but not “He opened the door and saw his brown-haired wife who was forty-three”, etc. The end result might seem a bit lacking in detail, but it will be much more immediate and won’t feel as if you are trying to make an artificial hook for the reader or give them an info-dump.

 

[James118]

If you were thinking of making it seem he's engaged in a real blood and guts battle, and it turns out only to be a game of chess, then I think you run the risk of upsetting readers who then won't trust you in later scenes -- false drama and pretend action are real turn-offs. In any event, you shouldn't need to hook your readers artificially in that way -- a game like chess can itself be enough of a hook if it's written well.

I have to return, though, to the issue of what you are trying to do with these opening scenes. Instead of dreaming up scenarios allowing you to info-dump about the country and/or his character, you'd be far better spending time thinking about when the story actually starts. If the argument with the councillors is the point where the plot begins, why shove a few thousand words in front of it? Start with that scene.

My problem with that is that I don't want the boy to immediately come off as a brat. I know that's what happened in this scene, and it was a big mistake. I want him to be calm, measured, and relatively smart, and proud of his status and the city. Those first three things are easy enough to put in a game of chess. If I were to turn it into a battle scene, the enemy and underlying conflict would have to be non-descript, because they aren't the focus. So I'd really have to put some gusto into the focus of the dramatic battlefield and the prince's army and his rallying calls.

I could start it off a little more in media res, put it towards the end of the game, just before the interruption. I may try both ways for now.

 

[James118]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm. So I have started it off with a descriptive, dramatic scene just before a battle before turning into a game of chess (haven't properly reviewed it all yet), but might it be a good idea for me to start with just the game of chess, but make the prince talk about it as though it's an epic battle? No dramatic/narrative deception, but still the characterisation that I want. Obviously not too far, else he'll seem like an actual small child playing with toys, even more than a brat.

 

[Dan Jones]

How much of the novel have you written? Are these teething problems or are you at the editing stage (ie at least one draft complete)?

I only ask as if you haven't completed a draft yet I'd simply write it out, complete it, regardless of how clunky you think it might be. It's much easier to reshape something that's complete, when you can see context, plot and all the other mechanics. It's almost impossible to say whether it's better to do the chase, then the chess, or whatever, with so little knowledge of the context. Just my thoughts!

 

[James118]

Oh, the whole thing's been done from start to end, for years. It's the prequel, and I wanted to do it first for consistency's sake. On top of that, it taught me an immense amount about how character development, plot developments, themes, subtext, all that esoteric, thought-provoking stuff should be very well connected, which I layered in to subsequent drafts. Ironically, that opening scene at the window in its original form had barely changed since I first wrote it 6-7 years ago - I just wanted to try some back story feeding wrapped in a little characterisation. We all know how that turned out.

So yes, I've got plenty of context to work this into, and I've already thrown in foreshadowing and all sorts, and it should ease nicely into the next scene, with a little tweaking of the latter. It's all good. I'll probably finish it properly tomorrow then give it a polish over the following few days. Back to work after my birthday (today).