Mary Renault

[Brian G Turner]

Just found this author, and a whole host of historical fiction novels set in Ancient Greece:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mary-Renault/e/B000AP5EFQ/

Am tempted to get a copy of Last of the Wine after Christmas, as Thucydides is a favourite of mine.

Would love to hear if anyone here has read any Mary Renault historical fiction, though, and what you thought.

 

[The Judge]

I read The Bull from the Sea a couple of years ago (though I think I read some others years and years back as her name was so familiar, but I can't recall them now). My blog comment at the time:

the re-imagined story of Theseus after he returns to Athens after killing the Minotaur. It's told in first person by Theseus at the end of his life, and it's poetic, strange, real and dream-like, and full of emotion and regret. I loved the language, the description, everything about it, but it's less a novel than an extended contemplation of fate, and of the conflicts humans face, not least between old and new, particularly so far as religion is concerned.

I'd certainly pick up another if I came across one, but I'm not actively seeking them out.

 

[HareBrain]

I read The Bull From the Sea and The King Must Die (its precursor) earlier this year, and really enjoyed them. Probably the latter (the first written) is the more coherent narrative, which deals with Theseus's adventures in Minoan Crete. The way Renault "explains" the minotaur, labyrinth etc is very good, and detracts nothing from the myth. Because its characters have a genuinely different outlook from ours, it works as fantasy even though nothing happens that requires a fantastical explanation.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

I read both books and loved them. The Bull From the Sea was my favorite, but that may be because I read it first. They are both beautifully written. I agree with HB that they work as fantasy because of the way the characters experience their world, even though from our viewpoint as readers nothing fantastical happens.

 

[MWagner]

Renault is a favorite of mine. She doesn't cater to modern sensibilities and expectations, and that's why her novels are so evocative of the classical era. She also writes beautifully. I'm not as in love with the Bull From the Sea as many of her fans. I enjoyed Fire From Heaven and Last of the Wine most.

 

[svalbard]

Last of the Wine is a great book.

 

[Bugg]

I enjoyed The King Must Die when I read it recently but, although I thought the first half was fabulous, I must admit I got a bit bogged down in the latter stages. It's probably more down to me than the book, but I've yet to consider going on to read the follow up. I was also very keen on reading Fire from Heaven but this has put me off a little.

 

[galanx]

Big fan of Mary Renault, and read a lot of her stuff when I was younger.

I was interested to hear that Tolkien greatly enjoyed some of her books, and that she had attended his lectures while she was a student at Oxford.
He wrote a letter to friends saying he had been "deeply engaged in her works" ( especially 'The King Must Die' and 'The Bull From the Sea') and that a fan letter from her was the one that gave him most pleasure.

Given that her religious and moral beliefs were so different from his, it shows that he was quite a - ahem- catholic reader.

 

[Brian G Turner]

Big fan of Mary Renault, and read a lot of her stuff when I was younger.

And may I properly welcome you to the chrons forum.

The Last of the Wine arrived today, so that's now on my To Be Read shelf.

 

[Brian G Turner]

The story has started out well enough - but there's a horrible issue of formatting in the paperback, where any section of dialogue becomes crammed together into a single dialogue.

So you end up with something like this:

"I'm glad to hear that," said Xenophon. - "Is that true?" My father - "I can hear it spoken again," I said. - "We should hear it again, and pay less attention to the rambling sophists," said father. - I looked to Xenophon. We both clearly had a predilection for the teachings of Socrates. "Perhaps one of my students would care to run the errand for us?" exclaimed Xenophon. - "No, we must go as a group," interrupted Pathocles. - "I agree..."

etc. And some of those paragraphs can be very long.

Take note please, Virago, an imprint of Little Brown.

 

[aThenian]

My favourite is The Last of The Wine. It's superb. I think if you like Thucydides you will love it. It's more political/philosophical than her other books - not surprisingly, with Plato et al wandering about, Socrates as a major character etc. But it's also the least fantasy in feel (though there is a dream sequence which is a bit fantastical). Mask of Apollo is a bit in the same mode.

The Theseus books feel more alien, maybe more like fantasy therefore. The values are more Homeric, the warrior code etc.

Personally, I don't like her Alexander books much. I feel she's got this huge crush on him, whereas basically he was a bit of a thug. But lots of people love them.

 

[aThenian]

I also feel Last of the Wine is probably a candidate for best first line of a novel, ever.

"When I was a young boy, if I was sick or in trouble, or had been beaten at school, I used to remember that on the day I was born my father had wanted to kill me."

But the second line is even better:

"You will say there is nothing out of the way in this"

What a jolt! How could anyone not read on?

 

[Verity]

I love Mary Renault's books. They were also responsible for me discovering homosexuality, when I got them out of the school library. I remember reading The Persian Boy when I was fourteen, and hoping my gran didn't read anything over my shoulder! The Bull from the Sea has also been made into an audio book with Michael York narrating - so when I think of Theseus now, I think of Michael York's voice.

 

[Andersson]

I read The Bull From the Sea and The King Must Die (its precursor) earlier this year, and really enjoyed them. Probably the latter (the first written) is the more coherent narrative, which deals with Theseus's adventures in Minoan Crete. The way Renault "explains" the minotaur, labyrinth etc is very good, and detracts nothing from the myth. Because its characters have a genuinely different outlook from ours, it works as fantasy even though nothing happens that requires a fantastical explanation.

I've started reading "The King Must Die" based on this post. I really like reinterpretations of old myths and stories where the supernatural elements are explained in believable ways while still keeping the sense of wonder (Bernard Cornwell's King Arthur stories or Colleen McCullogh's the song of Troy for example). I haven't gotten to the Minotaur yet though so I'm curious to see how it's handled.

 

[aThenian]

I really like reinterpretations of old myths and stories where the supernatural elements are explained in believable ways while still keeping the sense of wonder

Be interesting to hear what you think of Renault's approach.

One author I think does this well is Mary Stewart in her Merlin trilogy.

 

[Andersson]

One author I think does this well is Mary Stewart in her Merlin trilogy.

Yes, another good series. Though I seem to recall that Merlin used a fair bit of real magic in it (as opposed to everything being explained in believable ways).

 

[aThenian]

Yes, another good series. Though I seem to recall that Merlin used a fair bit of real magic in it (as opposed to everything being explained in believable ways).

There's some real magic, but I think it's mainly limited to "second sight/visions" type stuff, which I think is easier for even a very "rational" reader to accept. Other than that, a lot of Merlin's more impressive "physical" magic has a common-sense explanation - people are disguised, but not by magic, or he used herbs, or his knowledge of engineering (as with moving the standing stones.) Much of Merlin's reputation is based on his understanding of crowd psychology, and his scholarship, as much as magic.

So yes, it's still fantasy, but more historically-based or historically-feasible than most.

 

[Andersson]

There's some real magic, but I think it's mainly limited to "second sight/visions" type stuff, which I think is easier for even a very "rational" reader to accept. Other than that, a lot of Merlin's more impressive "physical" magic has a common-sense explanation - people are disguised, but not by magic, or he used herbs, or his knowledge of engineering (as with moving the standing stones.) Much of Merlin's reputation is based on his understanding of crowd psychology, and his scholarship, as much as magic.

So yes, it's still fantasy, but more historically-based or historically-feasible than most.

Yes, you're most likely correct. I remember liking the books quite a bit but I've read so many Arthurian stories over the years that it's sometimes hard to keep them separated.

 

[svalbard]

Yes, you're most likely correct. I remember liking the books quite a bit but I've read so many Arthurian stories over the years that it's sometimes hard to keep them separated.

That has given me an idea to start a thread listing Arthurian HF.

 

[galanx]

There's some real magic, but I think it's mainly limited to "second sight/visions" type stuff, which I think is easier for even a very "rational" reader to accept. Other than that, a lot of Merlin's more impressive "physical" magic has a common-sense explanation - people are disguised, but not by magic, or he used herbs, or his knowledge of engineering (as with moving the standing stones.) Much of Merlin's reputation is based on his understanding of crowd psychology, and his scholarship, as much as magic.

So yes, it's still fantasy, but more historically-based or historically-feasible than most.

Though, like Gandalf he does have the ability to start a fire.