Anyone know anything about the English Civil War?

[Tower75]

Hello, all.

I was wondering if you can help. This is a very odd question, but I've seen odder questions asked here. Who knows, maybe I'll get lucky.

I have a certain thought, or rather a ghost of a memory about a theme I wish to try in a WiP. It centres around our Civil War and the way it was fought.

For those that are aware the infantry of the early 1600s were mainly musketeers and pikemen, a regiment would be formed with all of its companies' pikemen in the centre of and of its musketeers on the flanks.

Generally speaking when silly men in sillier hats decided to "go to warh", when the regiments got to within range of each other they would trade musket shots at each other and then ultimately go to "push of pike," where the opposing pikemen would literally try to push their opposite number off of the field.

Now here's the issue: I've tried umpteen internet searches, read a few historical books on the period, and even read a few historical novels but nowhere can I find reference to the role of the musketeer during push of pike.

Logic would state that the musketeers wouldn't just stand by while their pikemen got stuck into the enemy's pikemen. A problem I see however is if the opposing musketeers aren't pikemen then they're not locked in this shoving death porcupine, they're on the flank instead with musket and probably something stabby.
If they start beating and kicking each other on the flanks that would surely breakdown the formation, expose the flank of the pikemen and all kinds of shenanigans would happen. However... I can't find any evidence to suggest that that is what happened. Push of pike situations didn't seem to start and finish quickly, the push went on for a while.

For all I know the musketeers sat back, reloaded, smoked and had tea.

Is there anyone with any knowledge of history that can kindly shed some light on this for me?

 

[The Ace]

The Musketeers got out of the way when the pikemen pushed forward.

The idea was that the muskets were used for attack, and the pikes for defence, but the unreliability of firearms at the time meant that it was the pikemen who did most of the work (a pike is actually a very bad weapon for hand-to-hand combat, but the effect was mitigated by both sides ending up in a shoving-match). Musketeers would often get to grips with their opposite numbers by using their weapons as clubs, but this was inefficient and did terrible things to a weapon that was pretty dodgy to start with.

What changed the situation was;

1) The flint lock making muskets more reliable (and the later introduction of mass production), and consequent concentration on reloading drills (musketeers didn't have to pull the trigger once, hope, and then run away).

2) The introduction of the bayonet (musketeers could fire in multiple volleys while still having the means to defend themselves) turning a single weapon into both musket and pike.

Of course, these innovations came much later, and Civil War Battles were usually settled by pikemen after the musketeers had softened up the opposition.

A good place to start your research would be a re-enactment group like the Sealed Knot, who address these problems in an accessible way.

 

[Ray McCarthy]

t centres around our Civil War and the way it was fought.

Quickly peeks to see which Country the OP is from, seeing as this is very international site.

It would also depend on terrain. Amount of cavalry etc.

 

[Venusian Broon]

Logic would state that the musketeers wouldn't just stand by while their pikemen got stuck into the enemy's pikemen. A problem I see however is if the opposing musketeers aren't pikemen then they're not locked in this shoving death porcupine, they're on the flank instead with musket and probably something stabby.
If they start beating and kicking each other on the flanks that would surely breakdown the formation, expose the flank of the pikemen and all kinds of shenanigans would happen. However... I can't find any evidence to suggest that that is what happened. Push of pike situations didn't seem to start and finish quickly, the push went on for a while.

Right this is a guess, but a large space of musketeers with no pikemen is screaming for the opposing cavalry to gallop in and destroy them - so unless they are absolutely sure that their flanking cavalry has won and they can see it come back to help attack the enemy infantry opposite, I'd guess that the muskets would be hanging about to be very near the pikemen to be protected - which also suggests to me that pikes will probably end up both in the middle and flanks of infantry formations after they have contacted the enemy.

In that case, I'd expect musketeers to be either reloading and occasionally taking pot shots, or using their muskets as clubs where appropriate if they were close enough to the enemy. (apparently many were steel lined for this purpose) You could also argue that very deep pike formations and other formal styles had loads of pikemen at the back doing nothing much - like the Spanish Tercio. Perhaps they tried their best to rotate troops, getting tired men off the front, although extricating those who were jammed in the first few rows was probably very difficult, but if there were local surges back and forwards it would give some of the fresh musketeers sitting near the back a chance to swipe at the enemy or, as you say use something stabby.

Anyway just a guess - that Osprey might have the info you need - have you had a look at them?

I see they have Pike and shot tactics 1590-1660 and Matchlock musketeer 1588-1688 when I did a quick search on their website.

 

[Tower75]

I see they have Pike and shot tactics 1590-1660 and Matchlock musketeer 1588-1688 when I did a quick search on their website.

Thank you. I have them both, oddly nothing is mentioned.

 

[Tower75]

Quickly peeks to see which Country the OP is from, seeing as this is very international site.

It would also depend on terrain. Amount of cavalry etc.

I thought the subject title would clarify which civil war.

 

[Ray McCarthy]

which civil war

Strangely I didn't notice the word English. But I figured it anyway. I guess I'm a bit dopey today!

 

[Venusian Broon]

Thank you. I have them both, oddly nothing is mentioned.

Why not try and see if you can e-mail the author/s with your question (that is if they have ways of being contacted of course.) Seeing as you've bought their books, I don't see the harm in trying to get more info from them direct. They may love a bit of discourse on the subject.

 

[Susan Boulton]

I would suggest, like Ace said, you contact the Sealed Knot, they are very willing to help.(Any as you are in the UK, they could be an up coming event near you this summer) Also the Royal Armouries might be able to point you in the right direction, they helped this writer a lot in the past.



http://www.thesealedknot.org.uk/

https://www.royalarmouries.org/leeds

 

[Tower75]

Thanks, all.

I'll give it a try.