Talking about worldbuilding

[TitaniumTi]

What about either 1984 or Frankenstein? I know that each one is more than genre fiction, but I would think that adds to the power of their world building.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

What about either 1984 or Frankenstein?

Frankenstein might be a good one as I think Mary Shelley has a link to Ireland. Nice one.

 

[Toby Frost]

1984 is quite clunky in some respects but the world-building is surprisingly subtle, to the point where it's easy to miss. It also has the interesting aspect that almost any element of its world could be untrue, put in as propaganda. A lot of the background comes from Goldstein's book: O'Brien claims to have written parts of the book, but O'Brien is proved to be at least a liar and quite possibly mentally ill.

What I would strongly stress in a talk about worldbuilding (and I'm probably going to give one in September, actually) is that world building is not limited to setting and tech, and certainly not to the list of events that preceed the book. What I think is often forgotten is that world-building most often makes itself apparent in characters and, to a lesser extent, the things around them (itself arguably an expression of character) and the pressures on them. The world building in a lot of Golden Age SF doesn't wholly convince me because the characters are blatantly technicians from the 1950s stuck unchanged in the future. It's also possible to have a world of complete absurdity that works because its absurdity is consistent. After all, how do dragons stay in the air? They just do, and it's consistently accepted that if a dragon tries to fly, it will succeed. John Brunner's novel The Traveller in Black is basically a literary version of a Bosch painting. Once you realise that, you know where you are, and you can deal with whatever craziness happens next.

 

[Ray McCarthy]

Time Traveller's Wife.... (Watches @RayMcCarthy have apolexy

Is Time Travel really SF or just a Drama McGuffin?

1984 is quite clever world building, but it's 5% SF and 95% political satire. It's clever because neither Winston Smith nor the reader is quite sure what is real.

Frankenstein is SF, but it's even less world building than 2001, a few interesting ideas, IMO isn't world building.

I'm quite calm, even though I've just drank coffee. Back to some real work now, editing "The Journeyman's Talent." (S.F. with world building and an N.I. author, but not famous yet.)

I'm not short of opinion, is that my heritage showing?
(Hoists up trousers and pulls down jumper in a sort of Picard Manoeuvre)

 

[AnyaKimlin]

What about Hitchhikers?

 

[psychotick]

Hi,

Was thinking about this and came to a startling thought - sci fi world building might be more involved than fantasy world building. (Don't all shout at me at once!)

But it occurs to me that sci fi goes to any number of different realms while fantasy is more often wandering down just a few well worn tracks. Consider, sci fi takes you to alien worlds after death - Philip Jose Farmer's Riverboat. To the fantastic future human worlds - Silverberg's Lord Valentine. The far future - Well's time machine. Deep space - Rodenberry's Star Trek. To the humourous - Harrison's Stainless Steel Rat. The cyber - Adlard's Voltface. To the alien - Watson's Lucy's Harvest. The religious - Heinlein's Stranger in a Strange Land. Alternate Earth's - Dick's Man in the High Castle. Dystopias - Mad Max spring's to mind. The deep past - Bradbury's Sound of Thunder ie the Butterfly Effect. And of course the present day world with just a few minor tweaks - Chrighton's Jurrasic Park. And so many more.

And with all of these alternate worlds there is a need for a consistent and logical world build. Something that makes sense and goes beyond the anything you can imagine to the anything that could possibly be. So for Trek for example, there's an entire bible which covers far more than just future history and races, but also how things work.

Just saying!

Cheers, Greg.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

Hitchhikers would be a fun one, as would Practhett.

Total McGuffin, Ray.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

Not so famous as some of those suggested, but there are a number of C. J. Cherryh's SF books I would suggest. Ray mentioned Cuckoo's Egg, but there are equally complex alien cultures in her Chanur books, The Faded Sun trilogy, the Foreigner series, and for standalone books Serpent's Reach or Hunter of Worlds. In that sense I think she may be better at world building than practically anyone.

 

[AnyaKimlin]

I know this might be a silly suggestion but on CBeebies at the moment there is a show called Chuggington - it's a city where trains are sentient beings. It really is a nifty piece of worldbuilding - the new series is even better with new areas to explore and Chuggers (trains) to bring in which have made series four and five even more exciting and fun than earlier series. It's really short (10 minutes) could you show it? There are some earlier series on YouTube.

It's great for showing how the little things are so effective - like the exclamation "Oh bumpers" or replacing any conversation that would involve feet with wheels or track references etc. Like with the new My Little Pony Friendship is Magic (another example people of all ages might be familiar with) it's a complete package. The older mentor guy "Old Puffer Pete" has steam references which make him seem like he belongs to an earlier time and gives the world depth.

As an easy example of world building it's not a bad one.

Also TV again - what about Phineas and Ferb? or Southpark or even The Simpsons.

If you're going to set a series in a world it has to have room and area for growth.

 

[Hex]

Slugterra where they use slugs as weapons...?

 

[Ray McCarthy]

Chuggington - it's a city where trains are sentient beings.

Thomas the Tank Engine

 

[Zoe Mackay]

There's a rather excellent book by Melissa Scott called "Conceiving The Heavens" that's all about SF world-building, and she herself is an excellent (to a fault) exponent of the art. Books like "Dreamships" and "The Kindly Ones" have really detailed and coherent worlds.

 

[AnyaKimlin]

Thomas the Tank Engine

Yeah but way better. And I liked Thomas the Tank Engine - the fact is Chuggington has far more exciting stories and the worldbuilding is much, much better.

 

[Terence Park]

I've been invited to have a chat ...
Any suggestions worth thinking about? Also, what sort of things are important to mention regarding world building? All thoughts welcome.

Authors who show the universe world through the day to day actions of their protagonists. The skill is in holding the readers attention as the differences between what we know and the world we read. Problems are in in gee-whiz I (the author) have gotta tell you this! This hinges on what each character notices and of course their characterisation. Big idea authors rarely do this well.

Some novels you could name check
Heinlein is fine including the juveniles e.g. Starship Troopers, Podkayne of Mars, Tunnel in the Sky, Double Star, Orphans of the Sky, Space Cadet, Citizen of the Galaxy, the Star Beast. Sometimes Bob took some 'hihj-flying' notions and gave them the run-through; e.g. Starship Troopers examined a timocratic based polity. If you don't know your Plato, this is a similar form of government to the one used by Sparta. At the end of the book you get how this works (which is why it became a bit of a bête noire to some)
Zelazny is also good. His style is direct yet the plausibility of works like Lord of Light, Creatures of Light and Darkness are enhanced by how he drip feeds philosophy and religion such as Christianity, Buddhism, Egyptian mythology, Hindu mythology into them. There's irony in Isle of the Dead where the main character opines about the effect of present day American culture on the galaxy, while he himself is pretty close to being a god of an alien species.

Hope some of that helps. In the meantime, I did a blog about World Building in another place. I'll go check it out.

 

[JoanDrake]

Authors who show the universe world through the day to day actions of their protagonists. The skill is in holding the readers attention as the differences between what we know and the world we read. Problems are in in gee-whiz I (the author) have gotta tell you this! This hinges on what each character notices and of course their characterisation. Big idea authors rarely do this well.

Some novels you could name check
Heinlein is fine including the juveniles e.g. Starship Troopers, Podkayne of Mars, Tunnel in the Sky, Double Star, Orphans of the Sky, Space Cadet, Citizen of the Galaxy, the Star Beast. Sometimes Bob took some 'hihj-flying' notions and gave them the run-through; e.g. Starship Troopers examined a timocratic based polity. If you don't know your Plato, this is a similar form of government to the one used by Sparta. At the end of the book you get how this works (which is why it became a bit of a bête noire to some)
Zelazny is also good. His style is direct yet the plausibility of works like Lord of Light, Creatures of Light and Darkness are enhanced by how he drip feeds philosophy and religion such as Christianity, Buddhism, Egyptian mythology, Hindu mythology into them. There's irony in Isle of the Dead where the main character opines about the effect of present day American culture on the galaxy, while he himself is pretty close to being a god of an alien species.

Or you could just footnote your text and write introductions to the chapters if you're Jack Vance. His Oikumene in the Demon Princes series is a fully realized Universe of thoroughly strange planets and distinctly odd institutions; while Old Tschai, the setting of the eponymous Planet of Adventure pentalogy is about as close to a travelogue of a very unique planet as you are ever likely to find. Vance is a good example of the fact that the best writers make their work both entertaining and unique by being thorough masters of all of writing's rules, and then breaking them creatively

 

[Jo Zebedee]

Thanks, everyone! Really helpful.

 

[MWagner]

Or you could just footnote your text and write introductions to the chapters if you're Jack Vance. His Oikumene in the Demon Princes series is a fully realized Universe of thoroughly strange planets and distinctly odd institutions; while Old Tschai, the setting of the eponymous Planet of Adventure pentalogy is about as close to a travelogue of a very unique planet as you are ever likely to find. Vance is a good example of the fact that the best writers make their work both entertaining and unique by being thorough masters of all of writing's rules, and then breaking them creatively

Vance is almost cruel about demonstrating his promethean imagination. He'll throw out an off-hand reference to a planet or a culture that is as startlingly original and imaginative as the central works of renowned authors. Just a few sentences. Then he'll move on, as if this inventing fantastic worlds and cultures stuff is so old-hat to him it just drops onto the page while he's on his way elsewhere.

 

[Ray McCarthy]

. Just a few sentences. Then he'll move on, as if this inventing fantastic worlds and cultures stuff is so old-hat to him it just drops onto the page while he's on his way elsewhere.

Yes, but actually that works better than putting in more.
If someone mentions Germany or USA in passing they don't give a summary of the Culture and History. Or if it's a party they quickly end up on their own.
"Avoid that guy in the leather jacket and long beard, he's a boring travelogue."

 

[AnyaKimlin]

Vance is almost cruel about demonstrating his promethean imagination. He'll throw out an off-hand reference to a planet or a culture that is as startlingly original and imaginative as the central works of renowned authors. Just a few sentences. Then he'll move on, as if this inventing fantastic worlds and cultures stuff is so old-hat to him it just drops onto the page while he's on his way elsewhere.

That makes sense to me. I've never read it. However, the worlds my characters inhabit are not new and fantastical to them, no more than Earth or our local vicinity is to us. My character is sat in a wardrobe in a massive palace but he never really notices the marble or how plush the velvet curtains are or the wonderful brocades because it's where he was brought up and no more strange or special to him than the Chinese silk hanging in me bedroom is to me.

 

[Terence Park]

Or you could just footnote your text and write introductions to the chapters if you're Jack Vance.

Enjoyed Jack Vance. He explored vistas dimly sighted by the likes of HP Lovecraft and Clark Ashton Smith. Collected Dying Earth. His worlds were fantastic. As a fan they were good but he was prone to whimsy on which the suspense of disbelief might founder.