cryogenics, corpsicles and mind uploads: a discussion "reincarnation" in Science Fiction

[Vertigo]

Hey maybe a cure for baldness!!!!

But seriously, we will probably have to reach a point where we can do all of that before immortality becomes a real possibility. At least corporeal immortality.

 

[tinkerdan]

Running a risk of creating a world of ::

Hey maybe a cure for baldness!!!!

But seriously, we will probably have to reach a point where we can do all of that before immortality becomes a real possibility. At least corporeal immortality.

::androgynous immortals.

Cry-oh-genics, you immortals of conspicuous androgynous persuasion.

 

[JaimeRetief]

Ah thank you, yes, not just teeth but bones as well; joints wear down and don't regenerate. I guess if we achieve immortality we'd probably eventually have to replace all our bones with metal ones (Echoes of Bujold again... though I agree with Jamie that she's far from being the best author to consider when discussing hard SF ideas). I guess it is conceivable that if we ever master stem cell technology it is possible that we may be able to get our jaws to fire up new teeth and our bone ends to regenerate themselves.

Bottom line is that there is an awful lot more to immortality than just not dying!

I would preferthat my brain be upload, or at least that I receive an upgrade similar to the ceramic brains from Robert Reed's Great Ship Trilogy.

 

[psikeyhackr]

I would preferthat my brain be upload, or at least that I receive an upgrade similar to the ceramic brains from Robert Reed's Great Ship Trilogy.

I regard that as creating an immortal copy. The original still dies.

psik

 

[JaimeRetief]

I regard that as creating an immortal copy. The original still dies.

psik

I see it as running legacy code on superior hardware.
If it thinks like me and it remembers everything I remember it will be me, a better and eternal me.

 

[tinkerdan]

One would have to establish if all that is you is your memories::

I see it as running legacy code on superior hardware.
If it thinks like me and it remembers everything I remember it will be me, a better and eternal me.

::And if your memories constitute the wholeness that is you.

I always thought the notion that we are but fleeting memories was just a metaphor.

 

[Stephen Palmer]

Well I guess that some people are just too special to believe that they are merely walking bags of chemicals, and that all that they are will disappear once they die.

Check out this exceptional book from one of the greats in the field:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0857388290/?tag=brite-21

 

[HareBrain]

I regard that as creating an immortal copy. The original still dies.

Absolutely. But some still have the idea that uploading their (somehow) digitised mental selves constitutes immortality for their current selves.

If it thinks like me and it remembers everything I remember it will be me, a better and eternal me.

But if it's not you who experiences this new "you", does it matter if it's the same? I'd rather have kids and hope that their difference is an improvement. (Not that I've actually done this either.)

 

[psikeyhackr]

I see it as running legacy code on superior hardware.
If it thinks like me and it remembers everything I remember it will be me, a better and eternal me.

That is the problem, "Thinks"!

I liked Scalzi's Old Man's War but I never bought the consciousness transfer. It was a matter of ignoring the unbelievable for a good story.

That would have been a form of immortality.

psik

 

[JaimeRetief]

That is the problem, "Thinks"!

I liked Scalzi's Old Man's War but I never bought the consciousness transfer. It was a matter of ignoring the unbelievable for a good story.

That would have been a form of immortality.

psik

OMW is far from the only example, and to be fair it is one of the worst books dealing with the subject. Writers from Varley to Morgan have done things better.
Duck typing is the order of the day here, and if it quacks like a duck, looks like a duck and walks like a duck I shall damn well call it one.

 

[Bick]

(7) Tooth decay:with all the advancements we have had throughout the centuries we have not conquered tooth decay and I can see immortality coming about with everyone having to eventually have implants.
oh and let's not forget
(8)Failing eyesight

These are trivial compared to preventing causes of death, which occur for two reasons: a ceiling on the absolute age we appear to be limited to as a species, doubtless linked to our requirement for oxygen, and secondly, some specific cause or causes that kick in at around that maximum time which finally kill us. Everyone dies of something, not simply "old age". In the very old, its typically a cardiovascular or pulmonary issue. While these are often secondary and brought on by primary disease, such as cancer (which we are on the way to addressing successfully), they can simply result of gradual deterioration of the tissues concerned. So, you have to find long term cures for all diseases and all degenerative conditions to achieve immortality. One of the problems in medical science is that the obvious approaches to reduce the effects of aging (growth factor augmentation, anti-apoptotic agents, etc) all tend to increase the prevalence of cancers. The biology is pretty complex. Adding a few new teeth or bones, or providing a bit of ophthalmic surgery is the least of your concerns.

I've noticed an increase in the trope that people can be rebuilt from only a few cells through cloning and them stuffing the newly grown brain with memories and personality stored as a backup on a computer. If you don't think about it too hard, it maybe sounds plausible... but it seems less likely than FTL to me, and I don't really like the development.

 

[Glitch]

Is it a myth that Lobster's don't die of old age? Or should one look to the Turritopsis dohrnii for immortality?

And should we add crime and punishment to Vertigo's list?

 

[psikeyhackr]

Is it a myth that Lobster's don't die of old age? Or should one look to the Turritopsis dohrnii for immortality?

Bowhead Whale

Photo by Blatant World

Bowhead whales have an average lifespan of 200 years. They can survive this long because they have a very low body temperature — and the lower an animal's body temperature, the longer it can live.

http://www.onekind.org/be_inspired/top_10_lists/longestliving/

I think it may be an issue for genetic engineering eventually. Why would there ever have been an evolutionary advantage to long life? We may have to figure out genetic characteristics that never existed.

psik

 

[Glitch]

The immortal jellyfish "Turritopsis dohrnii" led me to the Hayflick limit which explains about limitations in dell division.

What I find interesting about skimming over research on topics such as these is when you end up in places you didn't consider.

For instance, the Wiki article on the Hayflick limit which explained that human cells have a number of limited cell division. But that doesn't apply to apply cancer cells. One team somewhere is probably trying to keep human cells dividing indefinitely. While another is trying to limit cancer cells dividing.

 

[JaimeRetief]

The immortal jellyfish "Turritopsis dohrnii" led me to the Hayflick limit which explains about limitations in dell division.

What I find interesting about skimming over research on topics such as these is when you end up in places you didn't consider.

For instance, the Wiki article on the Hayflick limit which explained that human cells have a number of limited cell division. But that doesn't apply to apply cancer cells. One team somewhere is probably trying to keep human cells dividing indefinitely. While another is trying to limit cancer cells dividing.

It is actually a part of the DNA called a telomer, and with every division it becomes shorter shorter, it is like a built in self destruct mechanism, there are currently several projects that are trying to artificially increase the length of telomer in existing cells.

There are a number of immortal life forms, single cell organisms that do not reproduce via dna swaps but via simple fission don't die, they just split into two identical copies.
Those e.Coli in your stomach might actually be the same as the ones, or more specifically the one, in the stomach of the first monkey to develop the ability o use rudimentary tools

However at some point evolution took a different turn, organisms that swapped part of their DNA and produced "original" offspring became dominant, probably because competition and faster modification were better for survival.

 

[Stephen Palmer]

This has turned into an excellent thread. We rock!

 

[Stephen Palmer]

That is the problem, "Thinks"!

I liked Scalzi's Old Man's War but I never bought the consciousness transfer.

The ultimate cliche, but completely impossible. 1 consciousness < > 1 body. Did you know that, James Cameron...?

 

[Stephen Palmer]

I've noticed an increase in the trope that people can be rebuilt from only a few cells through cloning and them stuffing the newly grown brain with memories and personality stored as a backup on a computer. If you don't think about it too hard, it maybe sounds plausible... but it seems less likely than FTL to me, and I don't really like the development.

Ditto, and the trope is nonsense imo. Private memory does not = public memory. But all this shows, once again, how many people are convinced there's something inside them separate from their body. Thank you very much, Descartes...

 

[JaimeRetief]

This has turned into an excellent thread. We rock!

Thank you, I aim to please.
i have always believed that science fiction does best when it delves into the deep complex questions of existence and explores how everything in our perception of realiry can be completely turned arund, like the oncepts of life, death and self.

 

[JaimeRetief]

But if it's not you who experiences this new "you", does it matter if it's the same? I'd rather have kids and hope that their difference is an improvement. (Not that I've actually done this either.)

Oh, and what am "I" then, every second I live changes my current state to some degree, is my teenage self dead when compared to my current self, I have assimilated a lot of data between now and then, and my views on life, the universe and everything have shifted cionsiderably.
If a copy is perfect, then is it still a copy?