Falling Numbers -- Fewer Members Entering the Challenge

[Jo Zebedee]

I never did an introduction thread... I saw how people dropped out, and was afraid there was a curse of the mummy's tomb thing going about. (One never knows what is lurking in the basement of a speculative fiction thread... ..)
I saw that the people who stuck about were the greeters, for the main part. So I greeted others and never put up my own thread of doom.

i found this place because of the authors forums, and devilsgrin and Ace were kind enough to flag myself and several others in to the main active parts of the forum from the mini discussion us newly hatched chronium members were having in the back threads.
perhaps some newbies are needing a map out of the stacks?

I did mu introduction about 3 weeks in. By then I had about 600 posts...

Who, me? Are you sure it wasn't someone else? After all, I hardly bully anyone…

But I do feel a bit guilty; I used to generate a personalised introduction post for practically every newcomer who took the time to introduce him, her or itself. Recently, I have been a bit lax - mayhap I should try to make sure everyone knows the challenges exist, and are open to everyone even if it might be their first post. I've been not following critiques, too - or is that either?

Will try harder.

Or will accept you've always done your bit and allow oneself to chill out if one likes....

 

[AnyaKimlin]

Who, me? Are you sure it wasn't someone else? After all, I hardly bully anyone…

It might have been the personalised message I don't remember the details I'm afraid.

 

[Rafellin]

Outfield time. I think the fact that it is named 'Challenge' is the wrong wording - it could be putting some people off. It's not a challenge, nor is it a contest. It's story writing projects with monthly or quarterly iteration. The purpose being that practice is never wasted and it's fun, plus you get a peek into other writer's thought processes (a recent addition to the 300-word discussion threads post-voting, and a brilliant idea).

But, as an aside, I find the flash fiction format - something you'd have to consider ideal for the 21st century soundbitten, hyperlinked, no-waiting, faster-than-thou culture - is too much for many people. To appreciate a flash, you need a certain type of imagination. I guess that maybe that applies for writing the damn things...

I entered the 75 worder once, I think. It's not a bespoke format I can do. Stories that short, for me, are inspiration things that come from nowhere.

The 300 worder I enjoy, 'winning' be damned, it's the writing that matters. (I'm particularly p***ed at myself for missing the April one.)

I'd not be worried about the 300 format, but hold an open discussion (with PM drop contact option for members who wish to comment anonymously) regarding the format of the 75.

 

[Karn Maeshalanadae]

The thing is, Rafellin, a discussion was held about the 75 before it was ever implemented. Some said it should be fifty; some said a hundred.


75 was the compromise.

 

[Rafellin]

Karn, word count makes no difference to the issue. If the worries that started/appeared in this thread are substantive, you need to find out if something in the format is causing issues.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

The whole thing just evolved, Rafellin, from an experience I related, about a writing group I attended years before where the members were given an "assignment" to do at home, which was to write a modern version of a fairy tale in (as I seemed to remember) 75 words or less. I believe everyone in the writing group could have done it, but I was the only person who completed the exercise as it was given. A couple of people wrote the fairy tales but went way over the word count, and the rest didn't even try. (Most of the people in the group were there to tell their life stories, not to experiment with writing anything else. Not even, I think, to improve their writing skills in general, just to make those particular autobiographical books publishable.)

Once I told about that experience, several people here thought they would like to try. There was, as Karn says, some discussion about how many words there would be but ultimately we all decided on the original 75. We all thought it would be a good exercise for learning how to be succinct for pitches and queries, but the main thing was the challenge (hence the name) of writing the story within such tight limits. I thought we might have ten or a dozen people the first time and we would repeat it maybe two or three times at most. There were 42 entries the first month and after a few more months with exactly that same number of people participating (though not exactly same people participating) and then the numbers began to climb. And the biggest surprise has been that it lasted for years (five at this point). We started the 300 word challenge after the first year. I think the numbers there have been more consistent. We expected fewer than for the 75, so we weren't disappointed when that proved to be the case. The month where we had 75 entries in the 75 worder was the same month we had the most entries in the 300 (I don't remember how many it was, but it I do remember that the number surprised it). I don't remember the year, but the month was April, so it was an anniversary for both challenges.

I like continuing to call it the Challenge because it's about writing something good within the 75 word format, and those who meet that challenge are already winners, whether they go on to win in the voting or not. And it is supposed to be fun as much as it is a writing exercise or a competition, although not everyone has the same reasons for participating.

I think the big question may be "what were we doing when the numbers were higher that we aren't doing now" or whether it's a natural progression for interest to flag. Considering I thought that there would be less people participating every month and it would die before it was 4 months old, I wouldn't be surprised if that were the case. But if there is something we can do to keep it viable, then I'd like to see us do it.

For several months after we began the 75 word challenge there was a lot of discussion on whether the number of votes each voter could cast would be 1 or 3. We even had a vote on that (although those of us who wanted 3 were, perhaps, not very good losers).

Maybe (but I am not sure) it might be time to give serious consideration to the number of votes again. With 3, there would be more votes to spread around, and perhaps more people would get votes and be encouraged. Or perhaps it would simply mean that the winners got more votes. I think it could go either way. We might try a month where there are 3 votes. We did it once or twice before. I remember we did it for the first December, the idea being that the mods gave each participant two extra votes as a gift for the holidays.

 

[Phyrebrat]

I wonder if it may be an idea to sticky this thread (or start a new similarly themed one) so that new visitors to the Writing Challenge forum see that it's something we're concerned about addressing and may just decide to pop an entry up.

pH

 

[Parson]

Maybe (but I am not sure) it might be time to give serious consideration to the number of votes again. With 3, there would be more votes to spread around, and perhaps more people would get votes and be encouraged. Or perhaps it would simply mean that the winners got more votes. I think it could go either way. We might try a month where there are 3 votes. We did it once or twice before. I remember we did it for the first December, the idea being that the mods gave each participant two extra votes as a gift for the holidays.

I really do think that this is an idea whose time might have come again. If I remember correctly the time or two we did it there were indeed many more participants receiving votes, and given the tenor of this discussion that appears to be one of the depressing aspects of the challenges. --- Although as you point out correctly, it shouldn't be. I know that writing the 75 word wonders has done wonders for my writing succinct Bible Studies. When I was doing a kind of daily devotional everyone who read them, and that was a surprisingly high number as far as I was concerned, mentioned that they liked the brevity of the study. (A kind of left handed compliment to someone who has made the study of the Bible his life.)

 

[AnyaKimlin]

Although I haven't participated for awhile I like the 75 is a good length - it can be tweaked after anyway but then my 90,000 word wonders tend to come from nowhere as well. I'm not terribly good at the 75s but I find I can then expand them to 100-150 or snip them to 50 and make them better. It's also useful for blurb writing.

 

[Ursa major]

Just before a bandwagon -- I wouldn't go so far as to suggest that I it be a banned one -- gets rolling, I'd just like to reiterate my support for one-bear-one-vote** in the 75-word challenges.


** - Not to include Thread Bear, obviously: give or take holding grudges, his attention span isn't long enough to last a whole 75 words.


EDIT: Shown I bold. (Write out a hundred times: "I mst reead my posts bfore I post.")

 

[Venusian Broon]

Maybe (but I am not sure) it might be time to give serious consideration to the number of votes again. With 3, there would be more votes to spread around, and perhaps more people would get votes and be encouraged. Or perhaps it would simply mean that the winners got more votes. I think it could go either way. We might try a month where there are 3 votes. We did it once or twice before. I remember we did it for the first December, the idea being that the mods gave each participant two extra votes as a gift for the holidays.

I'd prefer if it was 3 votes per person or Treen/bear, potentially because it might spread votes around and give some newbies a real shot in the arm if they received a single vote (just a quick look at the 300 worder seems to suggest much fewer null votes...) however, from the viewpoint of deciding the best stories, when I did it for a short time, I was always agonising over what story was my number one - giving three votes means giving a formal recommend to the two stories that usually just missed out by a whisker.

You could argue that I could just do that by just saying what my top three were, I suppose, in the discussion thread. But it's more satisfying to cast a vote and not everyone lays out there short (and long and sometimes very long) lists...

 

[Tywin]

Okay, did y'all really just fill seven (7) pages of comments in just under 10 days discussing how forum activity might be lagging off?

 

[chrispenycate]

Okay, did y'all really just fill seven (7) pages of comments in just under 10 days discussing how forum activity might be lagging off?

Only six and a half so far and no, not all forum activity, just one little sub-forum. Which was never expected to last eternally, and has as many submissions now as when it started.

Why, had you some more important subject we should have been concentrating on?

 

[mosaix]

Just before a bandwagon -- I would go so far as to suggest that I be a banned one -- gets rolling, I'd just like to reiterate my support for one-bear-one-vote** in the 75-word challenges.

Ditto.

 

[Remedy]

I'll go all middle-ground and say I don't mind.

Increasing to 3 devalues the 1. But it also gives 2 extra people the happy feels.

Has two votes ever been floated? We often see people having a coin toss between two entries because they just can't decide... having two votes would solve that.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

I'll go all middle-ground and say I don't mind.

Increasing to 3 devalues the 1. But it also gives 2 extra people the happy feels.

Has two votes ever been floated? We often see people having a coin toss between two entries because they just can't decide... having two votes would solve that.

I actually prefer only having one. See my vote in the 300 this month, for instance. It's not the first time I've thought that I really only wanted to vote for one, as I thought it was the best. But I think the thing to remember is even if you have 3 votes, you don't have to use them all. You can just vote for one or two...

 

[Culhwch]

I've always been for one vote, and I haven't changed my mind.

 

[Remedy]

I actually prefer only having one. See my vote in the 300 this month, for instance. It's not the first time I've thought that I really only wanted to vote for one, as I thought it was the best. But I think the thing to remember is even if you have 3 votes, you don't have to use them all. You can just vote for one or two...

That's true. I noticed you'd done that this month.

I feel obliged to use all three, when sometimes I do feel like there is one which wins it for me, outright. Although, this month I am glad to have three!

Hypothetically - If there was a spare (optional) vote in the 75, would most people use it every time? or would they save it for when they can't decide?

... thinking about it, that'll probably just over-complicate things.

 

[HareBrain]

I'd prefer to stick with one vote too. It's true that having three would mean fewer people ending up with no votes, but some still would, and they'd probably feel a lot worse than now.

 

[Luiglin]

Just to add my tuppence to the discussion. I enter these just for fun.

I'm aware that my quality is not upto scratch with many of the other entrants That's not being self deprecating, it's a realistic view. I'm also aware that my over use of humorous entries is maybe not always appreciated by some.

As such whilst getting a vote is nice, I certainly do not see it as the be-all and end-all to the process.

For me the challenge is a personal one to get something down that I think is good. That breeds confidence.

I think that possibly it has become a touch competitive without people really knowing it. It also seems to be sometimes a bit 'clicky'. Please don't take this as a criticism. I've used forums for many years and like any group of people this is a natural result. However, that could deter some people over time.

Maybe instead at the end picking a short list, top three (I'm equally to blame) etc. We all still have one vote but use the feedback to give a view why you liked the story and what drew you to select it.

The only thing that does slightly annoy me is the deluge of thanks posts. Here I may sound like a grumpy sour puss but the new 'Like' option is more useful to show your appreciation and saves loading time for poor folks like me who browse the forum via phone

Cheer, Luiglin