The Flash S117 Trickster

Jesse412

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Glad to finally see more of the night Nora Allen was murdered and the fight scenes were kind of epic. Interesting that when the Reverse Flash unmasked he wasn't Harrison Wells. I love that they used pictures of Mark Hamill from the '90s and I thought his performance was super creepy. I laughed at the Breaking Bad reference and the "I am your father" line. I don't think it made sense that Axel was able to sneak up on Barry and attach the bomb to him but it was still kind of fun. Plus Barry learns to vibrate through solid objects and Wells named dropped the speed-force. Great scene where Grant Gustin unmasks in front of John Wesley Shipp. I always like the scenes featuring the two generations of the Flash together and it was cool that they showed Henry around S.T.A.R. Labs. The transformation scene with Eobard Thawne and the original Dr. Wells looked pretty cool. I was surprised to see Joe and Barry reveal his identity to Eddie. Preview for the last six episodes looks great.
 

J-Sun

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Glad you liked it but I have to say I'm close to giving up on this show. Hamillbal Luketer was just embarrassing and doesn't bode well for the upcoming Star Wars flick and the whole show just seemed very very silly to me. I was kind of surprised that Eddie was brought into Team Flash myself, but I suppose it makes more sense than keeping him out. Given that they had, I don't know that this was reason enough to change. I am now thoroughly confused about how to square the two Dr. Wells' behaviors now. I passed on the spoiling of the rest of the season, so I still don't know where they're going with any of it.

Based on the last couple of episodes of each, I wish they'd flip iZombie and this so I could watch that and Shield live instead of this and having to pick between IZ and AOS.

And, speaking of the last couple (three) of this - I didn't bother to comment on the show two weeks back because I felt sure they'd undo it all and I didn't bother to comment last week because they did indeed undo it all and it sucked. So this is just the third in a row I haven't liked and this isn't all about just this one episode.

Why is it that whenever they undo a show in any series that particular episode might have been cool and the undoing almost always is much worse than if they'd left it alone? I want to keep watching the timeline(?) where everything kept going forward, despite poor Cisco. Instead, I seem to be stuck in this one.

I suppose they can recover and the show can get good again but they sure need to work on it hard, from my point of view, and fast.
 

Jesse412

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Glad you liked it but I have to say I'm close to giving up on this show. Hamillbal Luketer was just embarrassing and doesn't bode well for the upcoming Star Wars flick and the whole show just seemed very very silly to me.
Have you ever watched the '90s Flash series? It was a bit of campy fun and this was just more of that albeit a bit darker.

I am now thoroughly confused about how to square the two Dr. Wells' behaviors now. I passed on the spoiling of the rest of the season, so I still don't know where they're going with any of it.
What exactly are you confused about? The Dr. Wells we've seen up until now has always been Eobard Thawne. It looks like he took the disguise shortly after Nora Allen was murdered. Hope that clears it up for you.
 

J-Sun

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Have you ever watched the '90s Flash series? It was a bit of campy fun and this was just more of that albeit a bit darker.
Nope, didn't even know another existed. This wasn't so much campy as just bad (to me) and it was inconsistent with the other episodes which had a dual (but consistent) tone of being sort of light and fun (but shy of camp) on the one hand, and asking to actually to take the characters' feelings seriously (which is not really germane to camp).

What exactly are you confused about? The Dr. Wells we've seen up until now has always been Eobard Thawne. It looks like he took the disguise shortly after Nora Allen was murdered. Hope that clears it up for you.
First of all, I don't know who "Eobard Thawne" is because I'm just an ordinary civilian TV watcher. I know nothing beyond "Flash is a red dude who goes fast" in terms of the comic canon. More specifically, it showed the apparent killer being Thawne-form rather than Wells. I thought the Wells body was moving forward to kill Barry's mom (granting that it was "Wells") where it seems to be the Thawne body moving backwards. Not that either of those makes any sense, but maybe you see what I'm getting at. It seems to imply a split-personality of some kind (akin to Caitlin's boyfriend and the prof) rather than a perfectly successful replacement (just odd stuff: Wells didn't seem to be entirely acting in being upset that Barry was tossing passive-aggressive shrapnel his way, like he might genuinely be the wronged party if Barry turned on him more than that his plans would be upset) and various other things. I can't really explain it well.

Anyway - none of this matters if the storylines don't get better, if the tone isn't settled back down, and, really, none of even that matters because this is turning out to be the time travel show, the whole time travel show, and nothing but the time travel show and I don't like time travel. Especially when they hit rewind whenever they want. Playing with the net down.
 

Jesse412

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First of all, I don't know who "Eobard Thawne" is because I'm just an ordinary civilian TV watcher.
Did you see episode 15 "Out of Time"? In it Dr. Wells reveals to Cisco that he is Eobard Thawne right before killing him.

I know nothing beyond "Flash is a red dude who goes fast" in terms of the comic canon.
In the comics Eobard Thawne was the original Reverse Flash also known as Professor Zoom.
He was a fan of The Flash from the 25th century who gained speed powers after recreating the accident that gave Barry his powers. He eventually becomes mentally unstable and turns into a villain.

More specifically, it showed the apparent killer being Thawne-form rather than Wells. I thought the Wells body was moving forward to kill Barry's mom (granting that it was "Wells") where it seems to be the Thawne body moving backwards. Not that either of those makes any sense, but maybe you see what I'm getting at. It seems to imply a split-personality of some kind (akin to Caitlin's boyfriend and the prof) rather than a perfectly successful replacement (just odd stuff: Wells didn't seem to be entirely acting in being upset that Barry was tossing passive-aggressive shrapnel his way, like he might genuinely be the wronged party if Barry turned on him more than that his plans would be upset) and various other things. I can't really explain it well.
What happened was Eobard Thawne traveled back in time to kill Barry and Nora ended up dying instead. Thawne became stranded in the past and started losing his powers. He killed the original Dr. Wells and with future technology stole his identity using it to change the timeline. He doesn't have a split personality at all. Hopefully they can clear this up for the non comic book reading fans when they conclude the Reverse Flash story.

none of even that matters because this is turning out to be the time travel show, the whole time travel show, and nothing but the time travel show and I don't like time travel. Especially when they hit rewind whenever they want. Playing with the net down.
Time travel (as well as parallel realities) have been an important part of Flash comics since at least the Silver Age. I agree resetting the events of "Out of Time" in the next episode was not handled well.
 

J-Sun

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Did you see episode 15 "Out of Time"? In it Dr. Wells reveals to Cisco that he is Eobard Thawne right before killing him.
Right - I saw that and was clear on that much.

In the comics Eobard Thawne was the original Reverse Flash also known as Professor Zoom.
He was a fan of The Flash from the 25th century who gained speed powers after recreating the accident that gave Barry his powers. He eventually becomes mentally unstable and turns into a villain.
That's a part that I was lost on. Thanks, that's interesting and helpful. I felt like the show was doing pretty good for the non-comic fan but they didn't do that well at all. "I am... FOOBAR DINGDONG!" Like that's supposed to mean anything to me and I'm supposed to be amazed at the big reveal. ;)

What happened was Eobard Thawne traveled back in time to kill Barry and Nora ended up dying instead. Thawne became stranded in the past and started losing his powers. He killed the original Dr. Wells and with future technology stole his identity using it to change the timeline. He doesn't have a split personality at all. Hopefully they can clear this up for the non comic book reading fans when they conclude the Reverse Flash story.
I don't expect an answer as it would be spoilery and get too much into the comics but just rhetorical questions from my point of view - "why go back in time to kill Barry? - why fail then and not kill him now? - because Barry has something Thawne needs? but why? why does Thawne "lose" his powers and apparently lose and not lose the knowledge of how to get them back (can't do it without Barry but can't do it alone but has enough knowledge to know how to get what he can't get??) - how did the Flash ever come into being if Thawne didn't create him in the first place and, given that Thawne created him, how would he think he could kill him? Etc, etc. I just really hate time travel because it's just plain wrong. It makes a mockery of existence and, worse, of reason. ;)

Anyway - I guess I'll just sit back and see if the answers unfold faster than my patience wears out. Thanks for filling me in on some of the backstory, either way.
 

BAYLOR

There Are Always new Things to Learn.
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Did you see episode 15 "Out of Time"? In it Dr. Wells reveals to Cisco that he is Eobard Thawne right before killing him.




What happened was Eobard Thawne traveled back in time to kill Barry and Nora ended up dying instead. Thawne became stranded in the past and started losing his powers. He killed the original Dr. Wells and with future technology stole his identity using it to change the timeline. He doesn't have a split personality at all. Hopefully they can clear this up for the non comic book reading fans when they conclude the Reverse Flash story.

Im thinking he is conflicted on the one hand the he's Thawne who wants Barry Dead and on the other had He's Wells too helping Barry . Thawne may have absorbed Well's personality too. There are two personalities.
 

Jesse412

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That's a part that I was lost on. Thanks, that's interesting and helpful. I felt like the show was doing pretty good for the non-comic fan but they didn't do that well at all. "I am... FOOBAR DINGDONG!" Like that's supposed to mean anything to me and I'm supposed to be amazed at the big reveal. ;)
Haha yeah I get that it was lost on non-comic-reading viewers but as a fan of the comics since I was a kid it was a moment that made me punch the air and yell hell yeah. :LOL:

Im thinking he is conflicted on the one hand the he's Thawne who wants Barry Dead and on the other had He's Wells too helping Barry . Thawne may have absorbed Well's personality too. There are two personalities.
I don't think they will reveal him having two personalities but that again goes back to my knowledge of the character from the comics. Who knows though the show may go that way.
 

K.S. Crooks

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Just watched the episode. My son and I burst into laughter (happy laughter) at the "I am your father." What many may not know is that there is another borrowed idea in the episode. The bomb placed on Barry's arm is based on an story arc in the comics and the DC movie Justice League: Doom. The premise is that Batman has devised a way to defeat (not kill) every other member of the Justice League (Superman, Wonder Woman, Flash, etc.). His plans are stolen and adjusted to kill the Justice League. For the Flash a bomb is placed on his wrist forcing him to run at super speed continuously. To get it off Batman tells him to vibrate through an iceberg.

As for Thawne/Wells intentions towards Barry, he needs Barry to gain a high level of power with his ability in order to tap into the speed force enough to have extra power for others to use. This will allow him to return to the future. I also wonder if the will follow the Flashpoint story line, which is that Thawne goes back in time to stop Barry from saving his mother because that would prevent Barry from becoming the Flash, Thwane from becoming a speedster and generally ruins the world. Read the Flashpoint series or watch the DC animated movie of the same name.
 

Brian G Turner

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Found the Trickster to be a bit silly and awfully camp - as a character, a really poor imitation of the Joker.

Really don't understand why they had to bring in the Thawne/Wells body swap - weren't we told before that almost nothing was known about Wells before he showed up 15 years ago?

And in saying that Wells would have built the reactor for 2020, and Thawne wanted it earlier, didn't that therefore change the timeline and invalidate any knowledge Thawne would have about the future? Especially in the case of the making of the Flash, which could surely have not been predicted if happened 5 years earlier than it was supposed to??

My eldest now refuses to watch The Flash btw, but I'll stick around until the end of the season.
 
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