The Edgar Rice Burroughs Thread

[BAYLOR]

Ive read a few of the Tarzan books and found them to be entertaining. The first three of the Pellucidar series ,The Caspak Trilogy, The John Carter of Mars series . Novels Im a Barbarian, The Monster Men. Of the books ive read , I liked the John Carter Mars books best of all.

What do you think of Edgar Rice Burroughs books , which are your favorites and how would assess his impact on the genres of Science Fiction and Fantasy?

 

[J-Sun]

I think he's traditionally an SF writer but he's really more fantasy. My first exposure to him was in the third grade when a teacher (one of my two or three favorite teachers) read Tarzan to us for about a chapter a day. That remained a kind of singular experience until I came across a trove of my uncle's paperbacks (kind of weird in that he's not interested in SFF at all but apparently went through a Burroughs phase), which I read in a concentrated period when I was a kid. Oddly, he didn't have any of the Mars books so that's been a glaring hole in my reading for a long time and, even now, I've only read the first though the others are in the Pile. I've read many of his others, though, and loved the Pellucidar books. The Venus books and stuff like the Moon Maid/Men and the kind of Ice Age books (I forget exactly) were all fun adventures but the Pellucidar books had some kind of magic to them. I think the central sun and the idea of it being right here under our feet, impossible as it was, was just enchanting and I think Burroughs felt it, too, as they seemed extra-adventurous, somehow, and he even took Tarzan into it in Tarzan at the Earth's Core. (Is that his only crossover or am I forgetting something?)

In terms of influences, Burroughs himself was influenced by the vast ocean of pre-genre adventure fiction and weird stories. In terms of descendents, I'm reading a Leigh Brackett right now and the color and adventure and strong silent types definitely show the influence and, of course, she and Bradbury have a lot in common in terms of threads of each of their writings (Brackett having other hard-boiled detective interests and whatnot and Bradbury having other soft horror interests, etc., but the planetary romance is common.) The whole magazine of Planet Stories could have been called Edgar Rice Burroughs' Science Fiction Magazine. I think C.L. Moore was probably influenced. Heinlein obviously was, though he usually went in a completely different direction with most strands. But there's still the "honorable valorous adventure" streak even in him.

 

[psikeyhackr]

I tried reading Princess of Mars. It was entertaining for a while but I lost interest about 2/3rds of the way through.

The input file is: ERB_PrincsoMars.txt with 378888 characters.
It uses 27 SF words 119 times for an SF density of 0.314
The word count limit of: 37 was exceeded by: 32 (Mars)
It uses 11 Fant words 62 times for a Fantasy density of 0.164

The input file is: ERB_GodsoMars.txt with 462137 characters.
It uses 24 SF words 115 times for an SF density of 0.249
The word count limit of: 46 was exceeded by: 4 (Mars)
It uses 12 Fant words 107 times for a Fantasy density of 0.232

The input file is: ERB_ChesMars.txt with 496023 characters.
It uses 16 SF words 110 times for an SF density of 0.222
The word count limit of: 49 was exceeded by: 1 (brain)
It uses 11 Fant words 169 times for a Fantasy density of 0.341

The input file is: ERB_WarldoMars.txt with 319160 characters.
It uses 22 SF words 67 times for an SF density of 0.210
It uses 11 Fant words 94 times for a Fantasy density of 0.295

The input file is: ERB_Thuvia.txt with 274760 characters.
It uses 11 SF words 53 times for an SF density of 0.193
It uses 10 Fant words 79 times for a Fantasy density of 0.288

The input file is: ERB_ErthsCor.txt with 275291 characters.
It uses 23 SF words 51 times for an SF density of 0.185
It uses 10 Fant words 60 times for a Fantasy density of 0.218

The input file is: ERB_Pelucdr.txt with 319854 characters.
It uses 23 SF words 50 times for an SF density of 0.156
It uses 7 Fantasy words 21 times for a Fantasy density of 0.066

The input file is: ERB_LandTimForg.txt with 205335 characters.
It uses 13 SF words 26 times for an SF density of 0.127
It uses 2 Fantasy words 2 times for a Fantasy density of 0.010

The input file is: ERB_OutoTimAbys.txt with 203731 characters.
It uses 11 SF words 23 times for an SF density of 0.113
It uses 8 Fantasy words 17 times for a Fantasy density of 0.083

The input file is: ERB_LostCont.txt with 214947 characters.
It uses 11 SF words 20 times for an SF density of 0.093
It uses 6 Fantasy words 36 times for a Fantasy density of 0.167

psik

 

[Vertigo]

I've enjoyed the Barsoom novels I've read but they don't suffer too close an examination. The character's motivations are largely laughable, the plot holes enormous and the misogyny and racism exceptional. now some of that is down to the era when they were written but not all by a long way. Look closely and you realise they are pulp fiction, good pulp fiction, but pulp fiction nonetheless. As I say I enjoy them and his imagination is certainly quite extraordinary but they are often put on pedestals that I don't think they truly deserve.

 

[Vince W]

I enjoyed Tarzan more than Barsoom, both were entertaining in their ways.

 

[J Riff]

The 1st Tarzan book is good... the way he learns to read, life as an ape in general.

 

[Fried Egg]

The 1st Tarzan book is good... the way he learns to read, life as an ape in general.

I always thought that the first two books run into one single, cohesive story. The ending of the first book makes a lot more sense when you've read the second one.

 

[tinkerdan]

I loved the Barsoom series and the Venus and Pelucidar. I never read the Tarzan because it didn't strike me as science fiction and that's what I was into.
I had a particular fondness for The Lost Continent aka Beyond Thirty.
Possibly because at the time I read it I couldn't get a copy and had to borrow from a friend.

I had just learned touch typing and could do a fair job and bought some paper and made myself a copy before I had to return the book to the fellow who really wanted it back. I didn't realize at the time that that was really an excellent way to get the feel for writing and even for trying to tap into the author's method of writing.

Later I was able to obtain a legitimate copy, but I still have a manila envelope lying around somewhere with that copy I so painstakingly made.

Back in that era there was a lot of pulp and a particular fondness for covers with scantily clothed women on the covers often with bug eyed monsters and tentacles and most of the time the cover was barely representational of the content. But it would be wrong to dismiss all of this; because it was those tropes that defined that epoch and ERB's fiction is highly representative of that time.

 

[Encephylops]

Being a particularly avid reader of Inner Earth literature, I highly enjoyed discovering the Pellucidar stories.
I loved the pulpy writing - also being a fan of Simak, Campbell and the like - but I had a hard time with the
never ending struggles he put his characters through. There isn't a story so much as a string of mishaps
causing the protagonist to constantly miss his chance at happiness, much like Cameron's Avatar without
the redemption of the enjoyable process of learning the wondrous nature of the local inhabitants, just the
invasion and destruction of peace. This being said, I will probably read it again soon.

 

[BAYLOR]

I Remember the 60's Multi volume Mars books that were done by Frank Frazetta very cool covers.

 

[Boaz]

I was thirteen when I first saw The Princess of Mars (with the Michael Whelan cover) at the bookstore. Monsters, swords, barbaric splendor and a beautiful naked woman... what more could I want! And I read it, reread it, and reread it until I found The Gods of Mars and The Warlord of Mars. Forget Narnia and the Shire! Then came Thuvia, Maid of Mars and The Chessmen of Mars. Man, I could not get enough of Barsoom! (By the way, Barsoom is the Martian name for Mars.)

That is until I was looking for more Burroughs and I came across the Frank Frazetta covers of Conan. The narrator of A Christmas Story says, "Only one thing in the world could've dragged me away from the soft glow of electric sex gleaming in the window." Well, only one thing could've dragged me away from the softly hinted sex on Barsoom... and that was the hurriedly gratuitous sex in the Hyborean Age. After reading all of Howard's Conan tales (plus those by Carter and de Camp), I read The Lord of the Rings. By the time I returned to Barsoom, it was no longer overly exciting. I went ahead and finished all the books. But the first five books of Barsoom are by far my favorites.

Back in 1979, I did not know Burroughs originally wrote the stories as serial installments for magazines... but I loved the cliffhangers at the end of chapters.

I can see how A Princess of Mars would have been complete in and of itself, if it had not made money. As the first sci-fi that I read, it was magical. I was transported. I'll always have fond place in my heart for Barsoom.

The next two books, Gods and Warlord, fleshed out John Carter's story into a planet spanning trilogy. It went beyond the Red Men, the Green Men, and the White Apes. All of a sudden there were Therns, Holy Therns, the First Born, and the Yellow Men of Okar. John Carter had to deal with false religions, slavery, Carthoris, naval battles, and a giant magnet of doom! It was great.

Thuvia and Chessmen were both retellings of Princess, but with different protagonists and damsels. In both of these, I think Burroughs really hits his stride. He does not have to give any introductions to Barsoom, but hits the ground running. For me, the entire high point of the Barsoom stories is when Turan the Panthan (aka Gahan of Gathol), a Red Martian without John Carter's super abilities, leads a team of slaves in a bloody game of Jetan (Martian Chess where the losers die and the winners get the women) in an attempt to rescue Tara of Helium.

If you've never read sci-fi, if you are thirteen years old, if you grew up in a strict/religious/conservative home, then I think you might enjoy a trip to Barsoom.

I tried Tarzan. I read Tarzan of the Apes twice and The Return of Tarzan once, but they never fired my imagination like John Carter.

 

[BAYLOR]

John Carter is definitely his best stuff.

 

[Connavar]

What kind of a short thread is it for a master of adventure heh.

Im a huge fan of John Carter books and i was shocked almost at how timeless, constant vivid action,adventure and world building there was in Princess of Mars. Im almost afraid to read his other series. Can Tarzan mundane world of apes, humans compete with the vivid Mars, the aliens, John Carter is what i wonder. I should branch out to his stand alone books, other sword and planet books.

 

[Vince W]

Tarzan stands shoulder to shoulder with John Carter. The characterisation of the apes and other animals is on par with any of those on Barsoom. The apes are more like a primitive culture than wild animals. The Venus and Pellucidar books are definitely worth reading.

 

[hitmouse]

Tarzan of the Apes is brilliant. Far better than the films.

 

[Robert Gibson]

I was thirteen when I first saw The Princess of Mars (with the Michael Whelan cover) at the bookstore. Monsters, swords, barbaric splendor and a beautiful naked woman... what more could I want! And I read it, reread it, and reread it until I found The Gods of Mars and The Warlord of Mars. Forget Narnia and the Shire! Then came Thuvia, Maid of Mars and The Chessmen of Mars. Man, I could not get enough of Barsoom! (By the way, Barsoom is the Martian name for Mars.)

That is until I was looking for more Burroughs and I came across the Frank Frazetta covers of Conan. The narrator of A Christmas Story says, "Only one thing in the world could've dragged me away from the soft glow of electric sex gleaming in the window." Well, only one thing could've dragged me away from the softly hinted sex on Barsoom... and that was the hurriedly gratuitous sex in the Hyborean Age. After reading all of Howard's Conan tales (plus those by Carter and de Camp), I read The Lord of the Rings. By the time I returned to Barsoom, it was no longer overly exciting. I went ahead and finished all the books. But the first five books of Barsoom are by far my favorites.

Back in 1979, I did not know Burroughs originally wrote the stories as serial installments for magazines... but I loved the cliffhangers at the end of chapters.

I can see how A Princess of Mars would have been complete in and of itself, if it had not made money. As the first sci-fi that I read, it was magical. I was transported. I'll always have fond place in my heart for Barsoom.

The next two books, Gods and Warlord, fleshed out John Carter's story into a planet spanning trilogy. It went beyond the Red Men, the Green Men, and the White Apes. All of a sudden there were Therns, Holy Therns, the First Born, and the Yellow Men of Okar. John Carter had to deal with false religions, slavery, Carthoris, naval battles, and a giant magnet of doom! It was great.

Thuvia and Chessmen were both retellings of Princess, but with different protagonists and damsels. In both of these, I think Burroughs really hits his stride. He does not have to give any introductions to Barsoom, but hits the ground running. For me, the entire high point of the Barsoom stories is when Turan the Panthan (aka Gahan of Gathol), a Red Martian without John Carter's super abilities, leads a team of slaves in a bloody game of Jetan (Martian Chess where the losers die and the winners get the women) in an attempt to rescue Tara of Helium.

If you've never read sci-fi, if you are thirteen years old, if you grew up in a strict/religious/conservative home, then I think you might enjoy a trip to Barsoom.

I tried Tarzan. I read Tarzan of the Apes twice and The Return of Tarzan once, but they never fired my imagination like John Carter.

Fascinating to hear that it's the first 5 Barsoom books that are your favourites. For me it's the second five. In particular, the seventh - A Fighting Man of Mars - which was my intro to the series (for ages I couldn't find any of the others; this was the pre-Internet online ordering age).

 

[Robert Gibson]

Tarzan stands shoulder to shoulder with John Carter. The characterisation of the apes and other animals is on par with any of those on Barsoom. The apes are more like a primitive culture than wild animals. The Venus and Pellucidar books are definitely worth reading.

But note that the taciturn Tarzan and the boastful Carter are very different people. This is to the author's credit, and a refutation of the criticism that pulp heroes are all cut from the same cloth.

 

[Robert Gibson]

Being a particularly avid reader of Inner Earth literature, I highly enjoyed discovering the Pellucidar stories.
I loved the pulpy writing - also being a fan of Simak, Campbell and the like - but I had a hard time with the
never ending struggles he put his characters through. There isn't a story so much as a string of mishaps
causing the protagonist to constantly miss his chance at happiness, much like Cameron's Avatar without
the redemption of the enjoyable process of learning the wondrous nature of the local inhabitants, just the
invasion and destruction of peace. This being said, I will probably read it again soon.

I know just what you mean about the never-ending struggles of Pellucidar. Also I could mention the lost oppportunities: especially I find it hard to forgive the irresponsibility of Tarzan, who, in command of a vital expedition to the inner world, goes swanning off alone into the jungle and gets himself captured almost immediately.

 

[Zendexor]

I've enjoyed the Barsoom novels I've read but they don't suffer too close an examination. The character's motivations are largely laughable, the plot holes enormous and the misogyny and racism exceptional. now some of that is down to the era when they were written but not all by a long way. Look closely and you realise they are pulp fiction, good pulp fiction, but pulp fiction nonetheless. As I say I enjoy them and his imagination is certainly quite extraordinary but they are often put on pedestals that I don't think they truly deserve.

Ah, but the mystery is, the Barsoom (and the Venus) books are greater than the sum of their parts. The Barsoon series in particular is a creation of a world which passes the greatest test of authorial magic: readers (at any rate, reader like me) react to its inconsistencies and implausibilities by making excuses for the stories, instead of being put off.

 

[BAYLOR]

Ah, but the mystery is, the Barsoom (and the Venus) books are greater than the sum of their parts. The Barsoon series in particular is a creation of a world which passes the greatest test of authorial magic: readers (at any rate, reader like me) react to its inconsistencies and implausibilities by making excuses for the stories, instead of being put off.

The Barsoom books had their flaws, but they manage to entertain , still do. I wish the John Carter film had been a hit , It would have resulted in a major revival of Burroughs .